Muslim Woman Jailed Over Head Scarf

I think its apples and apples. We, as a society, decide what is acceptable and what is not. That's the freedom we enjoy. The freedom to make rules to govern ourselves over that of having a dictator/king decide for us.


There is no need for a dictator if athiest loonies can implement right-wing authoritaton meausres to clamp down on innocent law-abiding citizens simply trying to practise their religion.

We draw the line at people walking around nude. We could also draw the line at people walking around in a tent. Seems easy enough, you know, the will of the people and all.


To clamp down on innocent law-abiding citizens, far from easy. Espiecially in America.

I believe France made some religious symbols illegal to wear in certain public places.


France has major social issues, banning religious symbols and hoping everything gets sorted is akin to burying your head in the sand.

The USA has worked so well in regards to religious tolerance because we leave that superstitious bullshit at home. Bring it into the public domain, expect to get a public response. It's that simple.


So a woman just going about her business, going to work, shopping etc. is bursting into the public domain and needs to be sorted out? I will never be able to understand how people such as yourself have to target people in such a way. Do you feel angry when you see a Muslim woman covered up? Do you feel like hitting her? Telling her to take her veil off?

The US is overwhelmingly Christian, a lot of the immigrants coming in were Christian, religious minorities are pretty much insignificant (they make up such a small part of the US). And what’s that crap about religious tolerance, was it not stated in this thread that Americans generally hate Muslims, they have a negative view of Islam and Muslims, you call that tolerance, rotfl. You yourself are a good example of religious tolerance, your type are really welcoming to immigrants and even to those already born in the US. If you call that tolerance I wonder what the opposite would be like... :shy:

Yeah, that's right, no skullcaps, not turbans, no burkas, etc... IN the court house. Simple enough rule.

Couldn't agree more :)


What about nuns?

And should Sikhs be allowed to wear their turbans out on the streets of the religiously tolerant US of A. Should nuns be allowed to walk around covered up? :rolleyes:
 
So you only truly get to wear what you want when you're at home? How does that work?
inside your house is private and is dictated solely by the home owner.
you can walk around in it naked with a boner as far as i or anyone else care about.
when you are outside your house then you are in the public domain and your actions are dictated by the public, not by you.
You misunderstood me. The Taliban wear the clothing of people that live in Pakistan and some parts of Afghanistan, the people of these countries are not going their dress just because others might perceive them to be members of the Taliban.
still doesn't change my answer. if i dressed as a nazi officer i would be perceived as such.
You have to be more clear.
okay.
Would nuns be allowed to wear their traditional dress in court.
no.
Would Rabbis or practising Jews be allowed in with their religious hat?
no,
What about mateys with a standard crucifix on a necklace?
i knew this question was coming.
if it's being worn for religious purposes? no.
Religious beards?
no.
Sikh turbans?
no.
And I take it you don't want any religous books in there either?
for religious purposes? no.
Its just not feasible.
wrong. it's very feasible. a courtroom is for fact finding.
if you want to worship your totem go somewhere else to do it.
 
And as the article pointed out, a female security officer could have taken her aside

Perhaps there were no female security guards present? Perhaps she had not requested a female, or had done so in what the baliff felt was a uncooperative manner?

More importantly, why should Muslims receive special treatment because of their religious beliefs?

But the security guard failed to do so. She was ordered to 'take it off'.

And she didn't take it off. Worse, when she turned to leave, she 'uttered an expletive' (at the very minimum), which the baliff obviously felt was disruptive conduct. And disruptive conduct in any of the area of the courthouse is technically *drumroll* contempt of court. Ever seen a lawyer swear at a baliff, Bells, even when said lawyer was in the right? If so, what happened to them?

The police department who investigated the whole saga seem to believe and agree with her.

Speculation, and an appeal to authority. You're pretty quick to accept the Muslim's version of events, without having even heard the Judge/Baliff's response. *cough* Biased *cough*

Do you think they're doing it because she's black and a Muslim? Are you going to accuse them of bias as well?

So you think the police department is immune from bias? This gets better and better. It seems everyone you agree with is someone bias free, while everyone you disagree with is rife with bigotry and hatred.

Had you read the original article and many posted since then, you would have realised that she was asked to remove the hijab because the security guard manning the "check point" did so because of the judge's rules.

Where do any of your articles provide irrefutable proof that it was not done (at least partly) as a security measure?

Had you actually read the words in the articles provided, you would have realised that while the Judge had a 'no headwear' rule, he had in the past made special allowances for religious and medical reasons.

Which indicates to me that this was not a case of bigotry, but simply a response to a spectator extending their middle finger to the security and protocols, and causing a disruption in the courthouse.

What is clear is that the police department have seen that a bias did exist since they are sending the police officers involved, the security guards and the judge to special sensitivity training. What does that tell you of their interpretation of the events?

Again, appeal to authority logic fallacy. Their interpretaton of events is not necessarily the correct one, and may indeed subject to bias and political correctness.

Reading and comprehension tend to go hand in hand. You should try it sometime.:)

Perhaps your should take a course in critical thinking. If the judge had made accommodation for religious headgear in the past (as even you admit), this throws into question you labelling him a bigot. Think about it, Bells, good and hard. But don't hurt your brain too much while doing so.

But security was not the reason cited for its original. Do try to keep up my dear.

No official reason has been cited by the baliff or the judge. All we have is speculation. How does that saying go? When you assume, you make an ass out of you and me. Except in this case, you're only making an ass out of you.

And it would seem that a special allowance would have been made for her if the over zealous security guard had advised her of it. But she was not told any of that, was she?

*clap clap clap*

Again, I ask for a little critical thinking on your behalf. Let's assume events occurred as you said.

Judge makes allowance for religious headgear.

Judge doesn't tell baliff about the exceptions.

Baliff stops Muslim woman at security checkpoint, tells her to remove headscarf.

Muslim woman refuses.

Baliff turns her away.

Muslim woman utters expletive.

Baliff detains Muslim woman and takes her before judge.

*Following so far, Bells? Good*

Baliff explains events to Judge.

Judge demands that Muslim woman removes her headgear. She refuses.

Judge hands down 10 day prison sentence to Muslim woman?!

Interjection:
But hang on, as we have already been told, the Judge has made allowances for religious headgear in the past. So why didn't he simply explain this to his nephew, and allow the Muslim woman to take a seat in the audience? Why did he demand that she remove her headgear in the court?

That's not consistent behaviour, the series of events don't make sense. And when a version of events doesn't make sense, I wait for clarification.

The judge seemed to think she was innocent enough after the police investigated the matter and he was advised of their findings. So much so that he released her immediately and the contempt of court charge against her dropped.

Again, appeal to authority logic fallacy. It's quite possible that the judge thought he was in the right, but didn't think the battle was worth fighting. The West doesn't need another Muslim martyr. Muslims have a tendency to whine and bitch so much these days, it's as if the West is suffering from a permanent case of tinnitus.

In fact, the police investigation cleared her of all wrong doing

Appeal to authority logic fallacy. Police investigations have been known to clear guilty individuals, and implicate innocent suspects. Police investigations have been known to be influenced by political intervention. Police investigations have been suspect to bias.

Quite frankly, I don't give a shit about the police investigation. The woman engaged in misconduct in the courthouse, and was (rightfully) arrested for it. The issue of the headscarf is a red herring.

I don't particularly care how or where you happen to lean. And I was merely pointing out that referring to Muslims or Arabs as "ragheads" is offensive and racist after you commented that the judge had not referred to her as such. Again, do try to keep up..:)

I suggest you follow your own advice and take a course in literary comprehension. If you bothered to read my post in context, you'd find I was parodying your interpretation of the judge's 'racist' motives.
 
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I have found this thread to be one of the most depressing I have read on sciforums for some time. It appears to me that those speaking against the muslim woman's actions are harbouring powerful prejudices against muslims. There is not even a hint of flexibility in their approach and attitude. I do not doubt the sincerity of their arguments. Nor I do doubt the source of that sincerity: it resides in a fear of what is different.

Sad.

Merry Christmas.
 
There is no need for a dictator if athiest loonies can implement right-wing authoritaton meausres to clamp down on innocent law-abiding citizens simply trying to practise their religion.
The funny thing is it's atheist that are protecting this woman because if Xians had their way Islam would be eradicated from the US, if not the earth. That's why it's best people keep their superstitious bullshit to themselves. Secondly, Polygamy is part of Islam and Mormonism and guess what - it's illegal.

If given a vote, I'll vote to make Burka's as illegal as walking around nude. Simple really. One person One Vote.

Michael
 
RE: Nuns, Nuns should have to take off their habit when they enter the courtroom.

RE: Tolerance
I am in Japan right now, staying with a Chinese, whom I stayed with in Nanjing. I understand what it means to stay in another society and to act in a way that is acceptable. There is no law that says, don't act like an arsehole, but guess what, you try not to act like one when in another country. It's really that easy.

Right now it's fine to wear a burka, there's no law against it. But, if given the vote, I'd vote to make it illegal. If a majority agrees with me, then just like nudity it will be illegal. Simple really. It's called Democracy.

MII
 
If given a vote, I'll vote to make Burka's as illegal as walking around nude. Simple really. One person One Vote.
And by the same token I could vote the death penalty for self righteous assholes such as yourself. You see where that takes us?

I despair that supposedly intelligent persons - which I reluctantly concede you may be - fail to understand that tolerance is essential to the efficient functioning of society. You would run things by a process of exclusion, not inclusion. Once you begin the process of exclusion it does not end. Ever. You never know when the knock on the door will be for you. Make that choice and you wind up in nazi Germany or the USSR.

You object to a head covered by a burka. I object to a head buried in the sand. I can tolerate most things except intolerance.

:mad:
 
I have found this thread to be one of the most depressing I have read on sciforums for some time. It appears to me that those speaking against the muslim woman's actions are harbouring powerful prejudices against muslims. There is not even a hint of flexibility in their approach and attitude. I do not doubt the sincerity of their arguments. Nor I do doubt the source of that sincerity: it resides in a fear of what is different.

Sad.

Merry Christmas.

I find it depressing that some posters feel that rules and laws shouldn't be applied to all people equally.
 
You have not read or understood a single thing in these posts. Go wallow in your prejudices.

So it is prejudiced to demand that laws and rules be applied equally? It is prejudiced to believe that all men and women are treated equally under the law?

It's clear to me that you've missed the point of this thread. Perhaps you should re-read it, and reflect on your brash and presumptious nature.
 
So it is prejudiced that demand that laws and rules be applied equally?
They were not applied equally in this instance.
It is prejudiced to believe that all men and women are treated equally under the law?
As above.
It's clear to me that you've missed the point of this thread. Perhaps you should re-read it, and reflect on your brash and presumptious nature?
Brash, yes. Presumptuous, decidedly not.
 
Ophiolite:
They were not applied equally in this instance.

You're correct. Usually individuals who act in contempt of court serve out their entire jail sentence. This woman received an out of jail free card because she happened to be Muslim.
 
I despair that supposedly intelligent persons - which I reluctantly concede you may be - fail to understand that tolerance is essential to the efficient functioning of society.
and you apparently don't understand that religion has no place in government.
 
It appears to me that those speaking against the muslim woman's actions are harbouring powerful prejudices against muslims.
using a pretty broad brush there ohpiolite.
if you read my posts it will become clear as to my stance on this subject.
 
and you apparently don't understand that religion has no place in government.
If only GW had understood that.

And, you clearly do not understand that religion is a central part of government in the UK and several other nations. Once again you reveal your narrowminded perceptions by assuming everywhere is like the US. If only.:(
 
And, you clearly do not understand that religion is a central part of government in the UK and several other nations. Once again you reveal your narrowminded perceptions by assuming everywhere is like the US. If only.:(
isn't that what this thread is about? US courtrooms?
 
I have found this thread to be one of the most depressing I have read on sciforums for some time. It appears to me that those speaking against the muslim woman's actions are harbouring powerful prejudices against muslims. There is not even a hint of flexibility in their approach and attitude. I do not doubt the sincerity of their arguments. Nor I do doubt the source of that sincerity: it resides in a fear of what is different.

Sad.

Merry Christmas.

So, you believe Muslims should be allowed to swear at judges in a court room? :bugeye:
 
You object to a head covered by a burka. I object to a head buried in the sand. I can tolerate most things except intolerance.

So, women having to wear the burka due to religious reasons is tolerance?
 
And by the same token I could vote the death penalty for self righteous assholes such as yourself. You see where that takes us?

I despair that supposedly intelligent persons - which I reluctantly concede you may be - fail to understand that tolerance is essential to the efficient functioning of society. You would run things by a process of exclusion, not inclusion. Once you begin the process of exclusion it does not end. Ever. You never know when the knock on the door will be for you. Make that choice and you wind up in nazi Germany or the USSR.

You object to a head covered by a burka. I object to a head buried in the sand. I can tolerate most things except intolerance.

:mad:
I understand your point, however, as they say: When in Rome. I am liberal minded. I don't like when I see women being taught to submit to a God and live public life under a tent. That's regression to me. I will use my vote to vote against regression as I see it. Others will vote to make society more conservative. Somehow there will be a balance. That's a democracy. Each person voting and in the end something coming of it.

I wonder what you think about polygamy? Think that we should allow polygamy because to not do so impedes on someones religion and is intolerant? Are you tolerant of public bestiality? What about marriage to 9 year olds? Some religions think that this was/is fine. What about female circumcision? There are a lot of things that we make illegal.
 
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