Muslim Woman Jailed Over Head Scarf

[Ghost_007]

The funny thing is it's atheist that are protecting this woman because if Xians had their way Islam would be eradicated from the US, if not the earth.

What planet do you live on? American Christians are different to Christians from around the Europe and the rest of the World. Christians in Europe and the UK have been very sympathetic to Muslims post 9/11.

That's why it's best people keep their superstitious bullshit to themselves. Secondly, Polygamy is part of Islam and Mormonism and guess what - it's illegal.

You do not have a clue. Polygamy is part of Islam? Polygamy is permitted in Islam (under very strict criteria) however no way is it even common in the Muslim World, Muslim scholars advise against marrying more than one wife. I know of no one in the UK that has more than one wife, when I was in Pakistan, throughout all my visits I only came across one person that had two wives.

Anyway, why is it illegal. If I was given a vote, I’d vote to make it legal. Rotfl.

If given a vote, I'll vote to make Burka's as illegal as walking around nude. Simple really. One person One Vote.

You've already said that. Anyway, I think you better get cracking on your campaign to ensure that 0.01% of the US population never leave their homes wearing burkas. Please note however that only a tiny minority of women wear the Burka, the vast majority wear the hijab and a handful wear the niqab. I’m sure you know what the differences between them are…

:wallbang:

RE: Nuns, Nuns should have to take off their habit when they enter the courtroom.

No they shouldn’t.

How people dress to court holds no significance to others, it is none of their business. I think it’s hilarious you trying to justify this nonsense while ranting on about tolerance, democracies and free societies. You wouldn’t know a free society if you tripped over one.

RE: Tolerance
I am in Japan right now, staying with a Chinese, whom I stayed with in Nanjing. I understand what it means to stay in another society and to act in a way that is acceptable. There is no law that says, don't act like an arsehole, but guess what, you try not to act like one when in another country. It's really that easy.

Please stop with the ‘I know this Chinese guy’ nonsense, it is irrelevant and makes you look sad.

Michael, you make all this tolerance malarkey sound so effing boring - when it isn’t! You don’t have to become a Chinaman when you live in China, what happened to being allowed to express yourself? Look at the UK, one of the most open countries in the World, I remember how we had all sorts of people at university, some with a weak grasp of English however we all had so much fun mixing with eachother, learning about our different cultures, languages etc. We were all different yet we gelled so beautifully. In an open society (that tackles certain social issues head on), religion is not an issue, religion has never been an issue when at school, university or work.

You need to lighten up a bit.

There is no law that says, don't act like an arsehole, but guess what, you try not to act like one when in another country. It's really that easy.

You’re talking about Muslims? Muslim immigrants to Europe and the USA? And those born and raised in the West?

How can you even make such a generalisation? ‘Muslims’ are not just a mass of people that are identical to eachother, each one of those Muslims you demonise is an individual, I think they should be treated as such.

Right now it's fine to wear a burka, there's no law against it. But, if given the vote, I'd vote to make it illegal.

You’ve said this about 5 times now in this thread now.

If a majority agrees with me, then just like nudity it will be illegal. Simple really. It's called Democracy.

Of course, democracies are far from perfect. Under mass hysteria and paranoia (easily achieved these days - just look at America) If a majority agrees, we could also decide to enslave Black people again, we could kill every damn Muslim in the country, we could nuke your favourite country (Pakistan), we could do so many things and they would all be okay because the majority would have wanted it! To hell with morals and ethics, the majority cannot possibly be wrong…

 

[Ghost_007]

I understand your point, however, as they say: When in Rome. I am liberal minded. I don't like when I see women being taught to submit to a God and live public life under a tent.

Mind boggling. You've clocked up over 8000 posts, been here for 5 years and you come out with shit like that. I used to always think you could never get away with saying stupid shit on this forum without getting hammered by other members but this stuff is too common now. I'm either going insane or people here just don't give a shit anymore.

I don't like when I see women being taught to submit to a God and live public life under a tent.

What the fuck are you talking about?

Have you ever thought that some Muslim women might themselves want to wear a headscarf, niqab or burka? (some mothers of headscarf wearers themselves do not wear the headscarf) Has that thought ever crossed your mind? Have you ever spoken to a woman who wears a scarf and asked her why she wears a scarf? A lot of Muslim women out there are very vocal and proud of their faith, the hijab symbolises many things to them, it is testament to their following of Islamic teachings, it is comfortable and makes them look good and feel happy etc.

You are talking absolute shit.

That's regression to me. I will use my vote to vote against regression as I see it.

Here we go again. Mate, your vote = jack shit, no one cares what you think, get over it.

I wonder what you think about polygamy? Think that we should allow polygamy because to not do so impedes on someones religion and is intolerant?

I've already put this argument to the sword:

You do not have a clue. Polygamy is part of Islam? Polygamy is permitted in Islam (under very strict criteria) however no way is it even common in the Muslim World, Muslim scholars advise against marrying more than one wife. I know of no one in the UK that has more than one wife, when I was in Pakistan, throughout all my visits I only came across one person that had two wives.

Are you tolerant of public bestiality?

Public?...:bugeye: Is it okay in private...

What about marriage to 9 year olds? Some religions think that this was/is fine.

Was/is? Just shows your conviction, can't say anything for definite.

If you wish to discuss the Prophet Muhammad's marriage to Aisha please feel free to open a thread about it, I will be more than willing to annihilate you. Anyway, a specific marriage at a specific moment in history 1400+years ago is not exactly relevant to marriages in the 21st century. How many Muslims marry 9 year olds? Do you have any statistics? Where does this go on in the Muslim World?

Anything other than hot air?

What about female circumcision? There are a lot of things that we make illegal.

Get a clue:

http://www.jannah.org/genderequity/equityappendix.html

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Female_genital_cutting#Islam

Female genital cutting predates Islam.[44]In Saudi Arabia, in the area known as the Hijaz, where Islam originated, FGC was already being practiced during the lifetime of Muhammad. Female genital cutting is not commanded by the Qur'an[45] and is not practiced by the majority of Muslims.[44] In Egypt, mufti Sheikh Ali Gomaa stated: "The traditional form of excision is a practice totally banned by Islam because of the compelling evidence of the extensive damage it causes to women's bodies and minds.

http://www.themodernreligion.com/women/w_circumcision.htm

Female circumcision is a habit practised long before Isla. Its map of distribution does not coincide with the Islamic map, and includes parts of Russia, some Asian (uncluding some Arab) tribes, parts of South America and the Nile valley (Egypt, Sudan and Ethiopia). Female circumcision is still being practised by both Non-Muslims and Muslims in these countries. However, at present in Egypt and Sudan only Muslims practise it, (a minority in Egypt and more in Sudan).

Female circumcision is not practised in Islamic countries other than Egypt and Sudan and possibly exists in few others. Women of Mecca, Medina, Najd, the Persion Gulf, Iran, North Africa, Turkey, Iran, Pakistan, Syria, Lebanon, Palestine, etc are not circumcised. This is established fact as well as first hand knowledge - I am a gynaecologist and I have dealt with all those nationalities.

 

[leopold]

No they shouldn’t.

well i for one disagree for the simple fact it's in our constitution.
if you allow one religious artifact into the courtroom for religious purposes then you MUST allow them all, every last one.
i can imagine the horseshit our judges would have to endure because of it.
the simplest solution is to forbid any and all religious items.

the same scenario can be applied to our schools

 

[Ophiolite]

Ghost,
you are doing a fine job of expressing my viewpoints at the moment.
If you step out of line, I'll let you know.
Ophiolite

 

[distantcube]

leopold99:

if you allow one religious artifact into the courtroom for religious purposes then you MUST allow them all, every last one.

I actually have no problem with a Muslim wearing headgear in a courtroom. But if they are allowed to do so, *everyone* should have the right to wear headgear, religious or not. 'Exceptions' should not be made for the religious, that's just blatant discrimination against individuals who wear headgear for secular reasons. I repeat, prioritising religious justifications over secular justifications is *discrimination*.

The same principle of equal treatment also applies to contempt of court. Even if further down the track error could be demonstrated on part of the judge and/or officer in regards to disallowing a Muslim to wear her headscarf (an error which has yet to be demonstrated by whiners), *that would not justify the victim engaging in misconduct*. Police officers have mistakenly arrested individuals in the past, that does not give the victim the right to resist arrest. Likewise, I'm sure baliffs have acted like pigs in the past, that does not give an individual in the court (court proper or not) to cuss them out.

A courthouse depends on the authority of the enforcers. If participants could belittle the enforcers with impunity, their authority is eroded. If their authority is eroded, then the courthouse becomes a madhouse.

So can some people please stop trying to spin this as though a Muslim woman was imprisoned for refusing to remove a headscarf, because she was *not*.

 

[leopold]

leopold99:
I actually have no problem with a Muslim wearing headgear in a courtroom.

well i am, and it doesn't have anything to do with headscarves or islam.
don't be offended when indians start bringing their totem poles.
or the chinese their buddhas.
don't forget, we allow one we must allow them all.

there is a specific reason our framers stated that congress "shall not establish a religion".

do you think i'm being overly attached to the letter of the law?

 

[distantcube]

What religion is congress establishing when it allows all spectators in a public court to wear headgear, whether it be religious or areligious headgear?

 

[leopold]

What religion is congress establishing when it allows all spectators in a public court to wear headgear, whether it be religious or areligious headgear?

this scenario doesn't only involve headgear, it can involve anything religious.
this goes much, much deeper than a headscarf.

edit:
i was disrupted by company.
to answer your question, as long as all religious artifacts are allowed then no religion is being established. as soon as you prohibit any artifact you must prohibit them all.
in my opinion you can avoid this entire mess by prohibiting all artifacts.
what possible reason can artifacts serve in a courtroom?
as a matter of fact religious artifacts can be seen as leading the witness .

 

[LadyMidnight]

I think it's fair that the woman was not permitted into the courthouse with a headscarf. Just because Muslims wear headscarfs for "religious reasons" doesn't mean they're above the rules implemented on other Americans. She wasn't singled out; everyone had to follow this rule. I am all for immigration, but I really dislike it when immigrants come here and, rather than assimilate into our country, expect our country to assimilate to them. If it's such an arduous thing to abide by our nation's rules (more separation of church and state is one) than leave. I know I'm not being politically correct, but it's true. My family are recent immigrants and they assimilated into American life i.e. learned the language, follow the laws of THIS country, etc.

However, I don't think she should spend time in jail just for cursing at a bailiff. A fine might be okay, but jail? That's too much.

 

[(Q)]

Polygamy is permitted in Islam (under very strict criteria) however no way is it even common in the Muslim World, Muslim scholars advise against marrying more than one wife.

One must ask whether or not polygamy, or polygony are the best paths for mankind?

Anyway, why is it illegal. If I was given a vote, I’d vote to make it legal. Rotfl.

Yes, I'm sure you would, without even thinking about it. Would you also allow for women to have multiple husbands?

 

[(Q)]

Have you ever thought that some Muslim women might themselves want to wear a headscarf, niqab or burka?

Or, they are made to believe they want to wear them.

But, I think most are more concerned for the Muslim women who DON'T want to wear them, but must wear them.

A lot of Muslim women out there are very vocal and proud of their faith, the hijab symbolises many things to them, it is testament to their following of Islamic teachings, it is comfortable and makes them look good and feel happy etc.

These are the same women who uphold ancient myths and superstitions, which is a testament to their ignorance and serves to demonstrate false emotions.

Anyway, a specific marriage at a specific moment in history 1400+years ago is not exactly relevant to marriages in the 21st century. How many Muslims marry 9 year olds?

The ambitions and agenda of a despot become clearer when his true character is revealed.

 

[Fraggle Rocker]

I don't have a problem with scarves. My grandma wore them; she was from a part of the world where they're called babushkas. It's just fashion. But if women can wear head coverings in court, then men should be able to as well, since there is by law no gender discrimination in this country. Maybe the judge just doesn't want to see baseball caps next.

I draw the line at veils. In America no one covers their face except outlaws, unless they're skiing or riding a motorcycle.

 

[Michael]

Sixth Circuit Rule 24

The district court properly declined to permit Conner to wear his KKK robe during the trial. Conner had no right to wear his KKK robe inside the courtroom.

The first premis here is Religion is no dibfferent than any other belief system. Some should not be tollerated and if not outrightly banned, than everything should be done to courtail their continuation.

Second, we do not allow certain clothing inside of the courtroom. Take the KKK robes for example. How many people here think KKK klan robes and other ensignia should be allowed into a court? Do you think doing so somehow helps legitamize such bullshit beliefs? When a Klansman refuses to take off his robe and spits at an officer shouldn't he be jailed?

Really now. How far are we willing to take 'tolerance' for sake of 'tolerance'?


I see Islam really as not that very much different than KKK bigotry. Only instead of teaching children that blacks are the inferior its the Jews or Atheists or Hindus or Shinto or even other Muslims that don't share the same set of superstitous beleifs.

Is it illegal to teach children to hate blacks. No it's not. But, I certainly do not want to encourage it! I will vote to prevent KKK clothing from being worn in public and I'd do the same to ban Burkas. I have that right as a Citizen. Sure there are probably some really nice bigots out there, that don't wish any harm on any Black person, they just don't want any mixing of races. I've even heard that exact expression from a Southern woman who was a dentist. She had nothing personally against Blacks or Arabs but didn't think it was proper to mix their blood with Whites.

She will go on to teach this ideology to her children. Can I prevent that? No. But, when I see soceity leaning towards accepting such bullshit, I take offense and see it as reversing social progression.

Islam, in my mind is really no different. Sure, there are probably many nice Muslim bigots that just don't think it good and proper that Good Muslims be mixing up with Jews and Atheists. I see no difference between a white KKK bigot refusing to shake a black mans hand and a Muslim refusing to shake a non-Muslim hand (which has happened to me).

I see Burkas in the same light as KKK robes. They are just a more fanatical and more devoute in their intollerant beliefs than the average douchebag.

 

[Orleander]

Since this rule applies equally to everyone, it seems fair.

I wonder how they would treat nuns or Amish women.

 

[FelixC]

WOW looks like GA is going back to its roots. South wants to keep the hate and racist tradition alive.

http://news.aol.com/article/muslim-woman-jailed-over-head-scarf/280144

S: you left out the most important part, she cursed as she was leaving

Hall said Valentine, an insurance underwriter, told the bailiff that she had been in courtrooms before with the scarf on and that removing it would be a religious violation. When she turned to leave and uttered an expletive, Hall said a bailiff handcuffed her and took her before the judge.

last paragraph of
http://news.aol.com/article/muslim-woman-jailed-over-head-scarf/280144

my advice, no cussing, might keep you out of jail, scarf or no scarf

I think the true title of this article should be;
"foolish woman arrested after cursing judge"

 

[(Q)]

"foolish woman arrested after cursing judge"

Of course, but that wouldn't allow Muslims to spit their hypocritical venom, would it?

 

[Roman]

No kidding. And she was stopped and told politely, she was the one who continued on claming she could wear it in other courts. It doesn;t matter if the last judge let you tap dance while giving opeing statements, if this one doesn't want to he doesn't have to. Not to mention she did utter an expletive which is a contempt of court issue as well

For someone who owns guns to protect himself from the government, you sure seem to love authoritarianism.