Muslim Woman Jailed Over Head Scarf

[Michael]

I saw a woman the other day wearing a tent, literally, a tent. It covered her feet arms whole head and face. Two small holes were cut for eyes but she was wearing 12 inch sunglasses to cover them, she also wore thick gloves. She was kind of smelly from sweat. I can only assume, from the Qur:an she was carrying, is that she:s one of those people who are allergic to sunlight, either that or a vampire, oh wait, she (or he) coudl could have been a religous kook too. hard call. I rank it next to the 15 year girl whose father made her swim in a burka, she was almost washed out to sea. f$cking sick.

That said, banning this sort of thing is stupid. We need to support neo-Muslims into shaming them into not wearing such silly bullshit.

 

[S.A.M.]

I think people should be free to wear whatever they want. If its a tent, so be it.

I may find this dress peculiar for instance, but I would not shame her into not wearing it.

The idea of making someone ashamed for their choice has been used without much success against atheists and homosexuals.

 

[Michael]

I said the same, people should be able to wear what they like, but, I also think people should be shamed when they wear something that disagrees with the majority of people. Nothing wrong with a person wearing a tent and nothing wrong with everyone treating them as the outsider they want to be seen as.

 

[S.A.M.]

people should be shamed when they wear something that disagrees with the majority of people

You're a small town boy, aren't you? Thats a very provincial mentality, they have it towards piercings, tattoos and goths. And in the distant past, witches.

 

[Bells]

It doesn't go against the constitution by any means. What kind of knife? A ceramic one, or plastic, or wood.

Oh I'm sorry.. The first amendment of your Bill of Rights says what exactly?

She practices her religion by wearing a headscarf. We aren't talking about a dude with a cap on side ways on his head. A judge has no right to demand that she remove said religious garment. Why? Because it denies her the freedom to practice her religion. Why do you think she was released so suddenly? It was after a rights group filed a complaint with federal authorities that she was immediately released. Why do you think that is?

Would he have demanded that a nun remove her veil? What of a Jew? Would he have demanded a male Jew remove his skull cap because it's 'head wear'?

What he did was discriminatory and it was also in flagrant disregard for the first amendment of the Bill of Rights. Now unless you're saying that a Judge doesn't need to adhere to the US Constitution or uphold the rights enshrined in it for its citizens..?

 

[S.A.M.]

Hmm I have to take issue with that. Suppose I practice my religion by going nude. Does this mean everyone is forced to accept my nudity?

Its an issue of common sense rather than law. If there are security issues, people can be taken aside and patted down or checked by a[n] [female] officer. But on both sides, I think its much ado over nothing. Both of them are wasting the courts time and should be fined for it. That would cut down on ridiculous stuff.

 

[Baron Max]

A judge has no right to demand that she remove said religious garment. Why? Because it denies her the freedom to practice her religion.

Religious garment? Many Muslim women go without headscarves, and there's nothing in the Koran that says women should wear scarves. Muslim women does so because of their culture, not because of their religion. Women wear the scarf by choice, not because their religion demands it. Big difference.

Would he have demanded that a nun remove her veil? What of a Jew? Would he have demanded a male Jew remove his skull cap because it's 'head wear'?

Now, see, those things ARE recognized religious garments. But notice that ONLY a nun can wear those things.

Now if the judge knew that some woman wearing a nun's outfit was NOT a Catholic nun, then he could force her to remove said garment or get out of the courtroom. See? No discrimination at all.

Baron Max

 

[spidergoat]

Suppose it's my religion not to appear in a court at all? Suppose I'm a Sheikh, they are supposed to carry a ceremonial dagger!

 

[Michael]

I think a Nun should remove their habbit, a Jew should remove their yarmica, etc... everyone is equal before the law and the jury should not be biased by religous symbolism.

 

[leopold]

She practices her religion by wearing a headscarf.

i believe that's a cop out bells.
what are we going to condone next? sacrificial virgins?

 

[PsychoticEpisode]

Question: Does the woman have to obey if a Muslim man orders it removed?

 

[Bells]

Religious garment? Many Muslim women go without headscarves, and there's nothing in the Koran that says women should wear scarves. Muslim women does so because of their culture, not because of their religion. Women wear the scarf by choice, not because their religion demands it. Big difference.

Yes. But it is still her religious choice to do so. Ergo, she should be free to wear it without being harassed or discriminated, let alone being arrested and jailed.

Now, see, those things ARE recognized religious garments. But notice that ONLY a nun can wear those things.


Now if the judge knew that some woman wearing a nun's outfit was NOT a Catholic nun, then he could force her to remove said garment or get out of the courtroom. See? No discrimination at all.

Not all nuns wear a veil. It depends on which order the woman decides or chooses to join. The greater majority of nuns do not wear it anymore, instead, consider it a matter of choice.

My question still stands. Would he have demanded a nun remove her veil (some also wear scarves on their heads) upon entering his courtroom? Should he be allowed to demand people remove religious clothing or icons from their persons upon entering a courtroom? What of Sikhs? Should they be forced to remove their turbans? Jews?

Is it discrimination that he has only targeted Muslim women of the same thing in the past?

It is amusing that your country touts its Bill of Rights as being a bastion of freedom and rights, but a Judge denies Muslim women of their first amendment rights. Interesting, don't you think?

i believe that's a cop out bells.
what are we going to condone next? sacrificial virgins?

So you view a woman choosing to practice her religion (which she is free to do in the US) by wearing a headscarf is somehow the same as slashing the throat of a virgin? Ermm ok.

 

[skywalker]

As stupid as it sounds, if your a cop and someone is refusing to take it off, how do you know something dangerous isn't being hid by it. Yes she may be telling the truth, but some people lie. You could conceal a bomb under a robe or something. Why do you guys think there's such tight border control, because a bomber could get into the US.

Keep making lame excuses... please continue.

 

[skywalker]

Suppose it's my religion not to appear in a court at all? Suppose I'm a Sheikh, they are supposed to carry a ceremonial dagger!

More lame examples, more lame excuses, amazing.

That judge ordered other women to get out of court room too.. just because of head scarf.. no law, no rule, just becuase he didn't like it. Please come up with some more excuses. Thanks

 

[leopold]

So you view a woman choosing to practice her religion (which she is free to do in the US) by wearing a headscarf is somehow the same as slashing the throat of a virgin? Ermm ok.

well no, not exactly.
but you must admit that this "i'm practicing my religion" bit can become out of hand.

a bit of christian trivia for you:
if my brother marries and then dies leaving his wife without any children then i am obligated to screw her until she becomes pregnant.
some religion eh?

the point is that this can become a real mess if we let it.

 

[Baron Max]

Yes. But it is still her religious choice to do so. Ergo, she should be free to wear it without being harassed or discriminated, let alone being arrested and jailed.

In public, yes. In that judge's courtroom, no.

My question still stands. Would he have demanded a nun remove her veil (some also wear scarves on their heads) upon entering his courtroom? Should he be allowed to demand people remove religious clothing or icons from their persons upon entering a courtroom? What of Sikhs? Should they be forced to remove their turbans? Jews?

In his courtroom, yes, he could ask that they all remove such things ...just as judges usually ask that men not wear hats.

Out in public, it's different because no one person is in control of it all.

Is it discrimination that he has only targeted Muslim women of the same thing in the past?

If he asks men to remove their hats, is that discrimination? No, it is not.

It is amusing that your country touts its Bill of Rights as being a bastion of freedom and rights, but a Judge denies Muslim women of their first amendment rights. Interesting, don't you think?

We don't allow women or men to come to court nude, either, is that denying them the rights of freedom? We also don't allow people to shit on the sidewalk, is that denying the rights of freedom?

You see, Bells, there are many expressions of freedom that aren't permitted in the USA. And I would argue that most, if not all, are perfectly legal under the Constitution.

Baron Max

 

[Bells]

In public, yes. In that judge's courtroom, no.

Is it 'his courtroom'? Did he buy it? No. The courtroom is in a public building and not a private piece of property. It is a Government building and one that is meant to uphold the Constitution and the rights of the citizens of the US.

Here is what the first amendment says:

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.​

Now do you get it?

In his courtroom, yes, he could ask that they all remove such things ...just as judges usually ask that men not wear hats.

Out in public, it's different because no one person is in control of it all.

He can't make such demands if said demands are in breach of the people's first amendment rights. She has a right to freedom of religion. He denied her that right by demanding she remove her headscarf. As a judge, he should have known better. Again, why do you think she was immediately released when a complaint was made to the federal authorities?

If he asks men to remove their hats, is that discrimination? No, it is not.

It would depend on the religion of the man and whether he was wearing said hat or headwear for religious purposes.

When he distinctly picked on Muslim women in his demands, then it is discrimination. She is not the only Muslim woman he has picked on in this regard.

We don't allow women or men to come to court nude, either, is that denying them the rights of freedom? We also don't allow people to shit on the sidewalk, is that denying the rights of freedom?

The first amendment of your Bill of Rights does not give people the freedom to public nudity. Nor does taking a dump in public fall under the right to freedom of religion.

Can you see the difference?

well no, not exactly.
but you must admit that this "i'm practicing my religion" bit can become out of hand.

How so? She was not doing anything wrong or illegal in wearing her hijab.

a bit of christian trivia for you:
if my brother marries and then dies leaving his wife without any children then i am obligated to screw her until she becomes pregnant.
some religion eh?

And? How does that even come close to a woman wearing hijab?

the point is that this can become a real mess if we let it.

If a judge is denying members of the public their first amendment rights, then maybe a real mess should be made of it.

 

[distantcube]

If he asks men to remove their hats, is that discrimination? No, it is not.

Yeah. I fail to understand how *applying a law (or rule, for that matter) equally* amounts to religious discrimination. If a law prevented only Muslims from wearing headgear, then I'd agree that religious discrimination is occurring. However, as you point out, non-Muslim men and women aren't allowed to wear headgear either.

The fact of the matter is that a particular standard of dress is expected in a courtroom, and exempting Muslims from these standards *is* discrimination. But not against Muslims.

 

[Captain Kremmen]

It's not just wearing a headscarf, it's the way she wears it.
Dead sassy looking.
Like

"I'm going to wear a headscarf and what are you going to do about it?"
No wonder the judge was annoyed.

 

[Baron Max]

Here is what the first amendment says:

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.​

Now do you get it?

No, Bells, you don't get it. Read that amendment carefully ....in the case of the woman and scarf, did congress make any laws or prohibit anything? In fact, was congress involved at all?

He can't make such demands if said demands are in breach of the people's first amendment rights.

Remember the El Dorado church issue in Texas a few months ago? When the Texas authorities raided the church property claiming that the men were taking underage girls as wives? Should that religious practice have been protected by the first amendment, Bells?

It would depend on the religion of the man and whether he was wearing said hat or headwear for religious purposes.

So basically, you're saying that anyone can do anything, wear anything, as long as they proclaim that it's their "religion" to do so?

The first amendment of your Bill of Rights does not give people the freedom to public nudity.

According to your statements above, all they have to say is that it's their "religion" to do so and the law can't do anything about it.

She was not doing anything wrong or illegal in wearing her hijab.

Just as the judge asks men to remove their cowboy hats in the courtroom, he can ask that the woman remove her scarf. It's no difference. There is nothing in the Muslim religion that requires her to wear the scarf ...just as there's no religion in Texas that requires men to wear a cowboy hat.

If a judge is denying members of the public their first amendment rights, then maybe a real mess should be made of it.

I think you already are making a mess of it, Bells.

Oh, and that old man down the street from you? It's his religion to gaze at little girls in the playground and masturbate ...since it's his religion, he should be permitted to practice it under the first amendment rights ...right?

Baron Max