Muslim magazine journalists pretended to be Roman Catholics :D

[S.A.M.]

Scroll back through the thread. It was already linked. I'd suggest you read it.

I did read it. It said that the journalists posed as Roman Catholics and took communion. They were investigating reports of illegal conversion to Christianity.

This also happens in India, a lot. Many Indians are concerned by evangelical Christians who coerce the untouchables into conversion, for instance. And there are probably groups that go undercover and investigate it as well. In Malaysia, there are already many converts many of whom have submitted legal cases for deregistration in an attempt to change the law. So there is obvious concern about conversion to Christianity. If there were madrassas in Australia that were converting Australians to Islam, you can bet journalists would be investigating it. In fact, there was a British program on Channel 4 where journalists went undercover to investigate what was being preached in mosques.

They too "desecrated" the mosques, by pretending to be Muslims, pretending to pray, pretending to be one of the gang. The FBI sends its agents into mosques in the US and over there, the consequences for Muslims can be much more horrific. Somalians have been deported. People are whisked off to Gitmo and never heard from again. You all know what happened to Aafiya Siddiqui who went from a neurologist in an American university to a broken beaten raped wreck at Bagram whose children are all still missing.

Now coming to these journalists. They allegedly spat out a wafer, they allegedly investigated illegal conversions. They wrote it up, feelings were "hurt" and the paper apologised.

Do you remember the Mohammed cartoons? Has anyone apologised for them yet? Do you think the paper should? Where do you think Michael and Geoff stand on that? Did you see them come charging on their white knight for a single person tortured to death in American penal colonies?

I'm holding Michael and Geoff to their own standards. Yourself, I am uncertain exactly where you stand. For some time now, you seem to lack focus.

 

[Tiassa]

Sleek swimmer's body

Please tell me how the journalists persecuted the Christians.

PLEASE.

S.A.M., they're presuming the worst. Or, to quote Michael:

"You aren't a least bit bothered that some undercover government agents were trying to Out Illegal Converts at a time when 9 churches were burned to the ground for using the word Allah, which used to be outlawed, specifically because the use of the word Allah, may confuse Muslims into thinking Christianity is a faith which is absolutely right - for them."

(Boldface accent added)​

I mean, did I miss something? I have yet to see it established that these are government agents, so I must have overlooked something. What did I overlook?

Because, obviously, Muslim journalists only ever investigate stories because they're government agents spying on people for retribution. They're Muslims, so there could be no other reason for being a journalist, right? I mean, that's how it works with you swinophobic turbanites, right?

Now coming to these journalists. They allegedly spat out a wafer, they allegedly investigated illegal conversions. They wrote it up, feelings were "hurt" and the paper apologised.

Do you remember the Mohammed cartoons? Has anyone apologised for them yet? Do you think the paper should?

Here's another one to have some fun with:

A Minnesota university instructor and avowed atheist is jousting with a national Catholic watch dog group over a smuggled communion wafer, which the associate professor dismisses as a "frackin' cracker."

Paul Z. Myers, who teaches biology at the University of Minnesota, Morris, on his blog this week expressed amazement that a Florida college student who briefly took a wafer "hostage" from a church ceremony has been receiving death threats for an action that was characterized "a hate crime" by the Catholic League.

Under the headline, "It's a frackin' cracker!" Myers wrote in an at-times profane blog entry: "Crazy Christian fanatics right here in our own country have been threatening to kill a young man over a cracker. This is insane."

He added: "Can anyone out there score me some consecrated communion wafers? ... I'll show you sacrilege, gladly, and with much fanfare. I won't be tempted to hold it hostage ... but will instead treat it with profound disrespect and heinous cracker abuse, all photographed and presented here on the web. I shall do so joyfully and with laughter in my heart."

Myers, in an interview today, explained that the blog entry is more "satire and protest" than an actual threat to defile the Eucharist.

(Walsh)​

Like I said: There are far worse reasons to spit out the wafer. And, as the above shows, there are far sillier things to do with it in the first place. I can't wait for the flood of criticism aimed at the esteemed Dr. Myers, or one scurrilous student, Webster Cook.

Regardless of the reason, the Diocese says its main concern is to get the Eucharist back so it can be taken care of properly and with respect. Cook has been keeping the Eucharist stored in a plastic bag since last Sunday.

"It is hurtful," said Father Migeul Gonzalez with the Diocese. "Imagine if they kidnapped somebody and you make a plea for that individual to please return that loved one to the family."

(WFTV)​

(So much for people's bogus outrage about cannibalism.)

"Body of Christ" (Parker/Stone)

The Body of Christ! Sleek swimmer's body, all muscled up and toned!
The Body of Christ! O, Lord Almighty, I wish I could call it my own!
Lord Almighty, oooooooooo, I must've been sellin' ties!
Oh I wish I could have the body of Christ!
The Body of Christ! The Body of Christ! The Body of Christ!
Lord Almighty, oooooooooo, I've never been so enticed!
Oh I wish I could have the body of Christ!​

I mean, the things we'll stake, apparently, just to complain about Muslims ....
____________________

Notes:

Walsh, Paul. "Communion wafer held 'hostage' raises holy heck". Star Tribune. July 11, 2008. StarTribune.com. March 10, 2010. http://www.startribune.com/local/24313139.html

Myers, P. Z. "It's a Frackin' Cracker!" Pharyngula. July 8, 2008. ScienceBlogs.com. March 10, 2010. http://scienceblogs.com/pharyngula/2008/07/its_a_goddamned_cracker.php

WFTV. "'Body Of Christ' Snatched From Church, Held Hostage By UCF Student". July 5, 2008. WFTV.com. March 10, 2010. http://www.wftv.com/news/16798008/detail.html

 

[S.A.M.]

A Minnesota university instructor and avowed atheist is jousting with a national Catholic watch dog group over a smuggled communion wafer, which the associate professor dismisses as a "frackin' cracker."

Thats what I am talking about :thumbsup:

 

[Bells]

Do you remember the Mohammed cartoons? Has anyone apologised for them yet? Do you think the paper should? Where do you think Michael and Geoff stand on that? Did you see them come charging on their white knight for a single person tortured to death in American penal colonies?

I believe the paper did apologise.

I'd like to know however, did the Imams who then went on to add their own fake images to it (the cartoons themselves) before travelling to the Middle East, images that were never part of the cartoons but what they designed themselves.. have those Imams apologised for misleading the world?

But hey, to use your standards, they're just a couple of "fricking" cartoons. No one was hurt and no one was killed in drawing them and publishing them. So really, what does it matter? If Muslims are going to become offended at a few cartoons, then maybe they should harden the fuck up. Maybe it is time for them to 'shop around for another religion' if they are so easily offended. After all, Muslims getting their 'sentiments hurt over a cartoon is as idiotic as taking a bath because someone's shadow fell on you'..

I'm holding Michael and Geoff to their own standards. Yourself, I am uncertain exactly where you stand. For some time now, you seem to lack focus.

I think they are holding you to your standards. In other words, they are debating exactly as you debate. Sucks to be you I guess.

 

[Tiassa]

Speaking of bigots and tw@s

I believe she is being treated exactly as she treats others on this forum.

And when she did the same to others? See, that's the part you consistently overlook.

Clive Barker wrote that "Nothing ever begins ...."

In this case, your starting point for history isn't so much arbitrary as it is convenient.

If she acts like a bigot and a twat, she will be treated as such.

So how should I treat you?

 

[S.A.M.]

Here is a question for you Bells, if there was a referendum in Malaysia that banned communion as haram, and the majority of Malaysians signed off on it, would it be a democratic decision?

 

[Bells]

So how should I treat you?

As you always have Tiassa. With hypocritical disdain.

 

[Michael]

But why only religious persecution, Michael? How about, for no reason at all?

Isn't it better if you're tortured, killed, sent off to concentration camps from which you disappear for no reason at all? How about if you're stripped naked, have rods thrust up your anus, get attacked by dogs for no reason at all?

How about if you have your home demolished, your mosque blown up, your kids burned down with white phosphorus, your family disembered by drones, your Quran flushed down the toilet, for no reason at all?

How about you open the newspaper to see your son, his face a mask of death, with a pretty girl doing a thumbs up sign over his dead body and discover that he died after hours and hours of torture, after which he was thrown into an unnamed grave which no one bothered to record, for no reaon at all?

How about if all this is shrugged off as "stuff happens"?

Would it be preferable if the Malaysians treated people like that?

I mean, we are ultimately talking about a spit out piece of wafer and extrapolating to unsubstantiated fantasies of what it entailed. I didn't read anything in the article those journalists finally wrote to support any of your claims, so I wonder, what exactly drives your crusade here? Could it be...no reason at all?

What is it that drives people like you and Geoff and all those good secular people in your society who go on prolonged demonising and killing sprees, for no reason at all?

Are you talking about the Iraq war? There's a reason. Oil. Oil used to maintain American Hegemony. I personally voted for Obama. Perhaps not all that surprisingly, all the same horses and all the same men, couldn't put Humpty Dumpty together again. We're trying to move forward right? Warmongers pull us back. Religious Fundamentalists pull us back. I feel that if people live in well informed Republics, in the long run, things move forward. So we'll probably vote Ron Paul and see how that goes.

Let's hope something changes for the better.


That said, I'm not connecting the dots here SAM.

 

[Tiassa]

Whatever's convenient for you, m'dear

As you always have Tiassa. With hypocritical disdain.

Always? My, how history has become shortened. I may not have fallen off the turnip truck yesterday, but I hadn't realized all space and time began in December.

But, hey. As long as it makes you feel better about yourself ....

 

[S.A.M.]

Michael:

No I am not talking about Iraq. Aafiya Siddiqui was a researcher in MIT

 

[Bells]

Here is a question for you Bells, if there was a referendum in Malaysia that banned communion as haram, and the majority of Malaysians signed off on it, would it be a democratic decision?

It would depend on who constituted as the majority. For example, in a country that is predominantly one religion and the minority make up the other religion and an election his held and the majority from one religion want to create a law that will affect the minority, and the minority, due to being the minority are unable to get their 'no' vote to hold, do you think it would be democratic?

Let me put it this way. Lets say Israel has a referendum to stop the landgrab and the majority of Israelis vote against it, is it a democratic decision when one considers Arabs who would be affected fall into the minority of voters in Israel?

 

[S.A.M.]

It would depend on who constituted as the majority. For example, in a country that is predominantly one religion and the minority make up the other religion and an election his held and the majority from one religion want to create a law that will affect the minority, and the minority, due to being the minority are unable to get their 'no' vote to hold, do you think it would be democratic?

Let me put it this way. Lets say Israel has a referendum to stop the landgrab and the majority of Israelis vote against it, is it a democratic decision when one considers Arabs who would be affected fall into the minority of voters in Israel?

Israelis are immigrants. Besides, that is how it works in Australia. The Aborigines didn't have a vote and by the time they did, they were outnumbered. Is Australia democratic?

 

[Bells]

Always? My, how history has become shortened. I may not have fallen off the turnip truck yesterday, but I hadn't realized all space and time began in December.

But, hey. As long as it makes you feel better about yourself ....

No Tiassa.

What I meant was that it was hypocritical because you only treated me with respect when I agreed with you, especially about Sam. The true disdain came in when you realised that I did not support you in the mod forum and outside of it when it came to this one particular member.

 

[Bells]

Israelis are immigrants. Besides, that is how it works in Australia. The Aborigines didn't have a vote and by the time they did, they were outnumbered. Is Australia democratic?

You're still dodging the question and the issue. Typical. If you are unable to answer the question posed to you, then really, this is a moot point and a useless exercise.

Is Australia democratic? Yes. Did they do right historically when it comes to the Aboriginals? No.

 

[S.A.M.]

You're still dodging the question and the issue. Typical. If you are unable to answer the question posed to you, then really, this is a moot point and a useless exercise.

Is Australia democratic? Yes. Did they do right historically when it comes to the Aboriginals? No.

So if the majority has Judeo Christian values and imposes their way of life on aborigines, that is at least as democratic as Malaysians putting out a referendum outlawing communion

And yet, they haven't done so. Why not? Why do they permit these haram practices in an Islamic country? Its against their religion, so why do they do it?

 

[Michael]

Many Indians are concerned by evangelical Christians who coerce the untouchables into conversion, for instance.

Is it Illegal for an Indian to become a Christian or a Buddhist in India?

Do you remember the Mohammed cartoons? Has anyone apologised for them yet? Do you think the paper should? Where do you think Michael and Geoff stand on that? Did you see them come charging on their white knight for a single person tortured to death in American penal colonies?

I'm holding Michael and Geoff to their own standards. Yourself, I am uncertain exactly where you stand. For some time now, you seem to lack focus.

Hey just one minute. I specifically said that IMO if someone wants to buy a Holy water-wafer and crap on it - as far as I am concerned they can do that. If they want to buy a US Constitution and wipe their arse with it - it's heir's, go for it. Sure, it'll piss people off. Oh well, turn the channel.

Maybe this cartoon pisses off WASPS?
A Little Cartoon That Pokes Fun At NRA And The KKK

Imagine that, it was illegal for a person with dark skin to sit on a bus? How f*cked up was that?

Now, if you notice my Thread topic. It has a at the end. Because what actually alarmed me was the part in blue. I thought the idea of sneaking into a church was comic. I don't care if they spat out the wafers.

From BBC

A Malaysian Muslim magazine has apologized after two of its journalists pretended to be Roman Catholics and took Holy Communion in a church. Al-Islam said it had not intended to insult Christians with an article describing how the journalists received and later spat out communion wafers. They were allegedly investigating reports that Muslims were illegally converting to Christianity.

I thought this was rather funny, until I realized they were looking for illegal converts - also known as traitors or turn coats (turn burkas?) if you will. I wonder? And if they happened to find a group of Muslims that converted to Catholicism? Then what? Were they there to share their joyous stories with their readers or going to turn them over to the Malaysian Gestapo? Reminds me of medieval Europe.
They didn't find any "illegal converts" - BUT, lets say they had? Some Muslims murdered some Christians just a few months back - for the once-upon-a-crime of using the Arabic word God "Allah" in their Bibles. I wonder how'd they treat any traitorous converts?

Are all Christians in Malaysia Chinese? Indian? How DO Malay become Christians?

See, what these journalists want to do is make it illegal for Christians to use the word Allah. So things can go back to the way they were. They don't want to see progress. Just like WASPs didn't want to see Black people be equal. These Muslims don't want to see Christians equal. It's the same thing. There's nothing wrong in the minds of the journalists. They simply want to live in a society where Christians are legally second class citizens. Kind of like KKK want to live in a society where Blacks are second class citizens. OK, that's their POV. It seems to me that's scifes's POV as well.

But, see, I don't think that's right.
What about you SAM? Do you think it's right? What kind of society to YOU want to create and be a part of? Because there's no true absolute right or wrong - it's just your right or wrong.

MPO is that many traditions in Islam, as it stands today, are not good for our society. Some are harmful. Some traditions in Islam are fine. Such as not stealing. Not lying. These are compatible with a society I am happy to live in.


Lastly, sometimes I think you just WANT to disagree. About one week every month

 

[S.A.M.]

What happens to those who illegally convert in Malaysia?

Do they end up like Aafiya Siddiqui? Or like Aborigines in Australia? Or like Palestinians in Gaza?

What happens to them? Or are they treated like niqab wearers in France? minaret builders in Swizerland?

Will they be denied employment? Kicked out of schools? Not allowed into public transport?

You live in a Judeo Christian society in Aboriginal Australia. Is that a good society?

You moved from a Judeo Christian society in native American lands. Was that a good society?

Now you're wondering why Malaysian Muslims are not more like you. Is that good?

What kind of society do you want Michael?

I don't want your society one that erases everything human or not, that comes in the way of its greed.

I find it ironic that you feel for Christians who want to use Allah. You're perfectly happy living in a society, where people speak your language, wear clothes like you, eat like you, watch movies like you, because their identity was erased. Deliberately. And for your happiness to be complete, they should all worship like you.

Is that the society you want? And yes you are right most traditions in Islam are incompatible with the kind of society you will be happy to live in.

That is such a relief to people like us, that there are options to genocide and ethnic cleansing. To war and torture. To intolerance and oppression.

How fantastic to envision a society where people apologise for hurt feelings rather than wipe their arse with your scriptures and tell you they have a right to be offensive. Civility is so underrated.

Now if only there was a way to keep people like you out of Muslim societies

 

[Tiassa]

(yawn ....)

What I meant was that it was hypocritical because you only treated me with respect when I agreed with you, especially about Sam. The true disdain came in when you realised that I did not support you in the mod forum and outside of it when it came to this one particular member.

No, dear, that was just you having hysterics.

 

[Bells]

So if the majority has Judeo Christian values and imposes their way of life on aborigines, that is at least as democratic as Malaysians putting out a referendum outlawing communion

And yet, they haven't done so. Why not? Why do they permit these haram practices in an Islamic country? Its against their religion, so why do they do it?

And yet, you still ignore when I say that the practices against Aboriginals was not good.

And what does this have to do with this topic again?

You still didn't answer the question by the way.

I'll deal with the rest of your post later..

No, dear, that was just you having hysterics.

Of course it was Tiassa. Because anyone who dares disagree with you is either hysterical or stupid, a liar, etc.

 

[Tiassa]

Something, something, something, Dark Side; something, something, something, complete

Of course it was Tiassa. Because anyone who dares disagree with you is either hysterical or stupid, a liar, etc.

No, dear, that's just the hysterical, stupid, or dishonest. I would even venture to suggest that you don't notice the other occasions because they're not spectacular enough.