If one of them (parents) gets really sick, they should be denied medical treatments. Let someone pray for them!
Murder by faith
- Thread starter Tiassa
- Start date
If one of them (parents) gets really sick, they should be denied medical treatments. Let someone pray for them!
Bells
Staff member
They were trying to do the best thing for their child?
Hmmmm... I guess sitting by and praying while a child lapses into a coma after being ill for several days, and not calling for help (not once), is the best thing.. Is it?
If that is the case, why did the father attempt CPR when she died? After all, if they had done their best up to that point and God simply failed to cure her, why then attempt to circumvent God's wishes and try CPR, when they had refused to call a doctor or take their child to the hospital before then?
I do view them as criminals. Do you know why? Because they completely neglected their daughters essential needs.. primarily her health.. since she was three years of age. When the child fell ill, they still neglected to seek medical help for the child. I wonder, if the family had not contacted the authorities, when would they have called them? Right upon her death? A few hours later? A day? A couple of days? Would they have bothered to call them at all? Here is the thing Norsefire, when you have a child, it is your responsibility to care and nurture that child. If the child falls ill, it is the parent(s) responsibility to seek medical help for that child. They were not living in the back and beyond, where medical help was not available. Medical help was readily available and they shunned it for their own religious purposes, because they wanted God to cure her, because they did not want to take her to a doctor. Their selfishness cost their daughter her life and for that, they are criminals, because they neglected their child.
The world is nothing more than these things; these things, politics, money, work, media, crime, it's just so concrete, dull, and simply, without value
Whereas with faith, it gives each indvidual a better feeling; it gives each individual hope and connection. Money doesn't do that. Politics don't do that.
It has value because it enhances society; it gives people a connection, a common social identity, a brothership; it gives people hope and can even give them happiness.
No they did not; they prayed for her.
Again, you are assuming medical treatment was the only option. It wasn't. They DID do something for the child, whether you believe in prayer or not; they do, and that's what they applied.
Therefore, they did not neglect their daughter.
If that is their wish.
What I wonder is, if it was either one of them that was sick would they have done the same :shrug:
Let me clarify: you cannot say they neglected her, because that would mean they ignored her. They did not. They prayed for her [being very religious people]. This is no different than a doctor acting on what he knows best; they are acting on what they know best, what they understand.
Can we arrest a doctor for not praying for his patient? Again, if not, then these people are not criminals.
Can we arrest a doctor for not praying for his patient? Again, if not, then these people are not criminals.
Had they go ill before their child had died, I do believe they wouldn't done the same thing.
I think they did ignore the fact that she was sick for Quote:
"She had probably been ill for about a month, suffering symptoms such as nausea, vomiting, excessive thirst, loss of appetite and weakness."
That is ignoring that fact that she is seriously ill and needs medical attention. By not getting her some is NEGLECT.
"She had probably been ill for about a month, suffering symptoms such as nausea, vomiting, excessive thirst, loss of appetite and weakness."
That is ignoring that fact that she is seriously ill and needs medical attention. By not getting her some is NEGLECT.
And we can praise the parents for a quick, painful death, too.
It is rather interesting to note a theists attitude to a child's death when the topic of a god is introduced. They make it sound like a good thing.
Everyone clap your hands together and pray with me now! God is great! Let us help him fill heaven with young souls that we might show our gratitude and bask in his glorious dead toddler fetish.
Yeah, up for debate. And, we'll all act on those assumptions, shall we? By killing little kids? We'll worry about proving his existence later. Much later.
Then, stop claiming he exists.
It's called insanity. I'll mail you the bill.
You are thinking in the "here and now"; how do you know that, if there is a God, he did not decide her time was up but now rewards her in heaven until her parents shall join her?
Just because people die wouldn't mean that, if there is a God, he is bad.
Yeah, up for debate. And, we'll all act on those assumptions, shall we? By killing little kids?
No, I cannot. Nor can you disprove him. We both believe, or have a lack of it, but it is NOT knowledge; it is not fact.
I don't act insanely in his name........and those who do, they do so in belief, not in His name. The belief in His name.[/QUOTE][/QUOTE]
Bells
Staff member
That's the thing isn't it? As a parent, you know when something is not 'normal'. If a child suddenly begins to behave strangely or is not looking well.. as in something has become drastically different and there is no reason that it should be so, then it is a fair bet that there is something wrong. When our over active toddler suddenly began to stop wanting to play, became lethargic and very cranky and irritable, something that was completely out of the ordinary for him, we took him in for a check up, just in case and it was found he was anemic. After 2 days, thinking he might be coming down with something, he did not get better or worse as one does with the flue or a cold, he just stayed the same. It could not be ignored or explained away and because he was behaving in a manner that was so abnormal to him, we took him to the doctors.
As a parent, you recognised that his constant throwing up went beyond what is normal reflux. Weight loss in a newborn baby is a clear indication that there was something else wrong and you were right.
That is what I don't understand. How could these parents have ignored all signs that indicated that it was something that was uncharacteristic and abnormal for her? You'd notice the loss of appetite and increased thirst. You'd notice the flu like symptoms that simply weren't going away. They definitely noticed when she lapsed into a coma, because they called their relatives and informed them of it. And they still did not call for help.
So you think they would have gotten medical attention for themselves if they had fallen so seriously ill?
No, I am quite sure they were aware that she was ill; again, they did respond: they prayed for her.
Therefore, no neglect. Neglect would be doing nothing whatsoever about the situation, if not even straight-out not acknowledging that the child was sick.
They did acknowledge that she was sick and acted.
No neglect.
Again, you are saying medical attention is the right course of action; I believe it is, but that is a BELIEF.
That is the typical theist outlook on "life." In other words, life is pointless, only death matters to gain a reward. I can never understand why theists want to live when their rewards are waiting for them.
And just because good things happen doesn't mean a god is good, or even exists.
If you don't know, how can you even make the assumption? What evidence do you have to even formulate the assumption?
Enmos
Valued Senior Member
Bells
Staff member
What options were available to her? Hmmm... lets see.. they could have taken her to a doctor or the hospital, prayed for her or done absolutely nothing. They selected to pray for her. She got worse and then she died. Now, which option would have been best for her? Lets see, doctors maybe? Seeing that praying for her and doing nothing can be placed in the same basket, since you know, praying failed, the child died and all, one can safely say that they did next to nothing for her. They neglected their child's health by denying her medical treatment when she needed it.
At the end of the day, they could have prayed for her all they wanted, and I believe they did. But had they not denied their child medical treatment, we would not be having this discussion. But they did deny her medical treatment when she was sick, even when she lapsed into a coma. They steadfastly refused to seek medical help. And that is classified as neglect.
Let me ask you a question. Say a child is denied food when it is hungry, the parents instead preferring to pray to God that God makes their child not hungry, even though food is readily available for them to feed it to the child. The child ultimately dies. Would you classify that as neglect? After all, they were doing something, they were praying to God to make their child not be hungry.