Mormons are a CULT!

another reading...

Racism: Mormons relegate black people and Indians into a class of their own. Such people cannot become priests and very little work is done among them to draw them in as members of the church. Thus, very real discrimination has been practised against black people. In the ¡®Pearl of Great Price¡¯ Joseph Smith wrote, ¡®For behold the Lord shall curse the land with much heat, and the barrenness thereof shall go forth forever; and there was a blackness come upon all the children of Canaan, that they were despised . . . for the seed of Cain were black, and had not place among them¡¯. Thus, historically, Mormonism has not looked favourable upon black people. In the present climate of civil rights and anti-racism it seems that this policy has, at least officially, been changed.
 
pumpkinsaren'torange, if you would actually read the sites I've referred to you, your objections would be answered.

As for LDS prophets being infallible, here is an excellent discussion of this topic:

Are Prophets Infallible?

And for answers to most questions anyone has about Mormonism, the All About Mormons site is very comprehensive in its coverage of the subject.
 
<b>pumpkinsaren'torange</b>, welcome to Sciforums. Sorry about not welcoming you before, but my message was directed at <b>Lamplighter</b>.

Below my handle is a set of binary numbers. They represent my age. Yeah, who is this guy, pragmathen? Not an admin, that's for certain.

And, rest assured, I have very many problems with Mormonism. Due to the prolific efforts of past Church-approved historians (<a href="http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/087747074X/qid=1033060527/sr=1-9/ref=sr_1_9/103-5950223-4763851?v=glance">B.H. Roberts</a>, <a href="http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0252020693/qid=1033060583/sr=1-3/ref=sr_1_3/103-5950223-4763851?v=glance">Leonard Arrington</a>, <a href="http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/1560850604/qid=1033060458/sr=1-1/ref=sr_1_1/103-5950223-4763851?v=glance">D Michael Quinn</a>), I've grown to understand that the LDS church chooses to rewrite its history and its doctrines to suit the mainstream society. Things that were once acceptable (polygamy) are now considered no longer acceptable, even though the first SIX Mormon prophets not only endorsed polygyny but practiced it as well.

When I was in Japan (as a missionary), I had the privelege of speaking with a black man (who had actually converted through a Unitarian sect and married a non-English-speaking Japanese woman) about the Church. He was very put off by the fact that the Lord had to 'wait' until 1978 in order to tell his prophet to allow blacks to enter the priesthood. I didn't have an answer for him back then other than the classic rejoinder "We do not know all of God's ways ..." Since then, I've come to realize that most church members tend to put unsavory things on the back-burner in the false hope that God will eventually clue them in on his obfuscating ways.

Did you know that Joseph Smith actually took in two sisters (whos parents had died) and instituted the Eternal Law of Marriage (polygamy) shortly thereafter? Emma (his wife) denounced these actions and threw the sisters out of the house, but what was she to do since he was the self-appointed anointed one of the Lord? Situations such as that always made me ill when I considered my belief system.

But, alas, <b>Lamplighter</b> (an apologist?) lurks to tell us that sometimes prophets are men and sometimes they are prophets. When they do bad things, it's the men that are talking, when they do the good things, it's the Lord that's talking. Give credit to God when they do good, blame Satan and his evil minions (temptation) when they succumb to bad.

So, <b>pumpkinsaren'torange</b>, you are correct in stating that the policy towards blacks and native americans has changed with regards to the church policy. And why has it changed? Because God decided it needed to be changed, apparently.

Not a good enough explanation for me.

Regardless, thanks to both of you for the exchange of ideas, this is quite refreshing.

Thanks!

prag
 
No, Star, that's the Catholic 7th Day Jehovah's Mormons, they also believe everybody goes to hell unless they drink the kohol at least once in their life...
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Seriously? Is that known as Jehovas Witnesses? Wait, Jehovas Witnesses are Mormons? Wow! I never knew that.

Im such a loser....:D
 
Originally posted by ubermich
its not as if what pumpkin's saying isnt supported w/ evidence. actually, i really enjoy listening to scathing diatribes that can't be argued w/

hmm, and now i have another reason to dislike mormons. they're racist. of course, i really dont care if the church was segregated up until 1978. personally, i can't see why blacks would bother trying to find equality in a shithole. civil rights should help you better your living conditions, not help you fight for your right to a piece of shit cult.
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<p>AMEN!<p><p>:D ...No pun intended
 
Okay, so it's pretty late here in Salt Lake City... in my last post I was agreeing with the statement about civil rights... absolutely brilliant! ;)
 
in the book of revelation, it was prophesied that before the end of times, there were false preachers working together with the anti christ.

who are this false preachers, can we find them? yes we can...

false preachers r wolves in sheep's clothing, in other words ppl who seemed good but r really not.

Jesus is the Lord, Jesus said Himself "Before Abraham was, I am", meaning he is the alpha and the omega, the begining and the end, Jesus is the Lord, Jesus is God, whoever dont proclaim this is the false messiah, that is to come into the world and decieve many working with the red dragon in Revelation (symbol for communism, such as china)

MORMONS AND JEHOVA'S WITNESS DONOT ACCEPT JESUS AS THE LORD, THEY ONLY BELIEVE THAT HE IS JUST ANOTHER PROPHET, MORMONS AND JEHOVAS WITNESS R THE ANTI-CHRIST, "AGAINST CHRIST" IN SHEEPS CLOTHING, DECIEVING MANY, ACTING AS IF THEY R GOOD PPL.

Jesus asked st. Peter "who do u think I am?", St. Peter said "You are the Lord, the Son of God", Jesus said "Amen I say to you for flesh didnt reveal this to you but the Spirit of God".\

WHOEVER DOESNT PROCLAIM JESUS IS THE LORD IS THE FALSE CHURCH. MORMONS MADE THEIR OWN BIBLE, AND SO DOES JEHOVAS WITNESS, THEY R WOLVES IN SHEEP'S CLOTHING.
 
Originally posted by muscleman
Jesus is the Lord, Jesus is God,

How do you work that one out?

Jesus asked st. Peter "who do u think I am?", St. Peter said "You are the Lord, the Son of God", Jesus said "Amen I say to you for flesh didnt reveal this to you but the Spirit of God".

???

Love

Jan Ardena.
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Yes, but muscleman, "Mormons" (members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints) do believe that Jesus is Lord and God, the alpha and the omega. All Mormon doctrine and belief is centered around Jesus Christ, and He is the object of all LDS worship. The LDS Church is true, and Jesus stands at its head.
 
correction Lamplighter

ok. here's the deal. i realize that you are intelligent being and know a lot of stuff about a lot of stuff, but, i need to clear one misconception up concerning the doctrine/belief of mormons. The mormons aren't what are called "mainstream" Christians - the thing is, up until recently they DIDN'T EVEN WANT to be called the actual C word: Christian. they resented it and all its implications. i can find the evidence and proof of that, if you would like me to, and, i can deposit it here for your perusal. they were and, actually still are highly offended by the crucifix/cross. what gives with that?

anyways, the main MAIN, MAIN, MAIN difference between them and "regular" main-stream Christianity is that they DON'T - I repeat DON'T believe that Jesus IS God. yeah, they believe that Jesus is the son of God, but the CRUX of the matter at heart for any true believe is the belief in a Triune God - that God IS indeed Jesus and Jesus is INDEED God. the mormons don't believe that. so, please, don't infer/mislead other's with your information.
 
Several short points:

Yes, Mormons DO want to be known as Christians and always have been Christians. This is not a recent development. The Church has been a Christian religion since April 6, 1830, when it was first organized by Joseph Smith. The Book of Mormon is "Another Testament of Jesus Christ."

No, Mormons DO NOT want to be known as "mainstream" Christians, according to the current definition of the word. Mormons believe that the Church is a RESTORATION of true Christianity, not merely a reformation.

The Cross: they aren't really "offended" by it; they just don't feel that it is an appropriate symbol of the LIVING Christ. If Jesus had been killed by a gun, would you hang a tiny gun around your neck to symbolize your faith?

The Triune God: The so-called "3-in-1 Trinity" is not a biblical doctrine. It came with the "creeds" when uninspired men decided that they were going to modify biblical doctrine to fit their own philosophies.

Is Jesus considered as "God" in Mormonism? Yes. As a member of the Godhead, He is "God the Son," one of the three personages who constitute the Godhead (the other two being God the Father and God the Holy Ghost). Your belief that Mormons don't believe that Jesus is INDEED God is false. They do.
 
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Lamplighter, please read.

A Short Bible Study/Proof of the Doctrine of the Trinity
by Pastor Dick Helms, June 17, 1999


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As Christians we are often asked "where is the Trinity in the Bible?". While there are many great dissertations on this foundational Christian doctrine, here is a very short study that I pray will help believers better understand their own faith and also better equip them to defend it to seekers. 1PE 3:15 But sanctify the Lord God in your hearts: and be ready always to give an answer to every man that asketh you a reason of the hope that is in you with meekness and fear:

GOD IS ONE.
DEU 6:4 Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is one LORD: DEU 6:5 And thou shalt love the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy might.
THE FATHER (LORD) IS GOD.
ISA 43:10 Ye are my witnesses, saith the LORD, and my servant whom I have chosen: that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me. ISA 43:11 I, even I, am the LORD; and beside me there is no saviour.
ISA 44:6 Thus saith the LORD the King of Israel, and his redeemer the LORD of hosts; I am the first, and I am the last; and beside me there is no God.
THE SON (JESUS) IS GOD.
JOH 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
JOH 10:30 I and my Father are one. JOH 10:31 Then the Jews took up stones again to stone him
(The Jews knew that Jesus claim in vs. 30 was that "He was God". Ergo, they wanted to stone him, the appropriate scriptural punishment for such blasphemy.)
COL 2:9 For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.

THE HOLY SPIRIT (HOLY GHOST) IS GOD.
ACT 5:3 But Peter said, Ananias, why hath Satan filled thine heart to lie to the Holy Ghost, and to keep back part of the price of the land? ACT 5:4 Whiles it remained, was it not thine own? and after it was sold, was it not in thine own power? why hast thou conceived this thing in thine heart? thou hast not lied unto men, but unto God.
GOD IS ONE.
EXO 20:2 I am the LORD thy God, which have brought thee out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage. EXO 20:3 Thou shalt have no other gods before me.



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SUMMARY

If one truly believes that the Bible is God's Word, and that it is without error and true and trustworthy in all aspects, then one must believe each/all the following.

That God is one.
That the Father is God.
That the Son (Jesus) is God.
That the Holy Spirit (Ghost) is God.
The only logical way to reconcile these seemingly contradictory teachings is to understand God as One God, eternally existent in Three Persons. The Doctrine of the Trinity. God Three in One. Never forget MAT 19:26 But Jesus beheld them, and said unto them, With men this is impossible; but with God all things are possible.

FINALLY

As soon as Jesus was baptized, he went up out of the water. At that moment heaven was opened, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove and lighting on him. And a voice from heaven said, "This is my Son, whom I love; with him I am well pleased." (MAT 3:16-17)

For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one. (1 JOHN 5:7 KJV)**

Amen and Amen!




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** Most modern translations/versions (except the NKJV) of the Bible have removed this verse or reduced it to a footnote to the text. While the doctrine of the Trinity stands firm without it, this verse is historically a part of time tested/proven Scriptural text/doctrine and is the sole singularly complete statement of the doctrine of the Trinity in the Bible. Perhaps the "oldest" manuscript is not necessarily the "best"?

COLOSSIANS 2:8 Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.


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Yes, Mormons DO want to be known as Christians and always have been Christians. This is not a recent development. The Church has been a Christian religion since April 6, 1830, when it was first organized by Joseph Smith. The Book of Mormon is "Another Testament of Jesus Christ."
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No, that is not true, this IS just a recent development.




No, Mormons DO NOT want to be known as "mainstream" Christians, according to the current definition of the word. Mormons believe that the Church is a RESTORATION of true Christianity, not merely a reformation.
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*** I was using the term "mainstream" in regards to Trinity-believing Christians..because that is what the Trinity doctrine has become today, the mainstream..the "norm" of Christianity, if you will. Don't manipulate my words for your benefit. Mormons, are definitly NOT the norm and are not Christians, mainstream, or otherwise. They are a cult that is sorely misguided. I mean, how can a guy who claims to have found golden tablets (gosh, was he "borrowing a bit of drama from the Old Testament *coughMosescough* to manipulate the people? yep, yep. Poor misguided people.


The Cross: they aren't really "offended" by it;
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*** Another blatant lie.


they just don't feel that it is an appropriate symbol of the LIVING Christ. If Jesus had been killed by a gun, would you hang a tiny gun around your neck to symbolize your faith?
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*** Sorry, Charlie, but, yes, if Christ had been killed by a gun, we would indeed wear guns around our necks. the cross around our necks are INDEED symbolic of Christ overcomine death and the grave. We could take about any symbol from the crucifixion and it would be holy and respectful if we wore it with the proper worshipful attitude.


The Triune God: The so-called "3-in-1 Trinity" is not a biblical doctrine. It came with the "creeds" when uninspired men decided that they were going to modify biblical doctrine to fit their own philosophies.
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*** wrong. See my above post. thanks. btw...though, since your are speaking of biblical doctrines...where, oh where on earth does it say ANYTHING in the bible about Holy Underwear?????!!!



Is Jesus considered as "God" in Mormonism? Yes. As a member of the Godhead, He is "God the Son," one of the three personages who constitute the Godhead (the other two being God the Father and God the Holy Ghost). Your belief that Mormons don't believe that Jesus is INDEED God is false. They do.
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*** yeah, but, do they believe that Jesus is God is Jesus is the Holy Spirit?? in otherwords, A TRIUNE GOD?? nope, they don't. just as you have the whole essence of an orange, you also have an orange peeling, the fruit and seeds - all three make up ONE orange.
 
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And what's up with that dude with the diving rod? That's pretty weak right there. And oh yeah, I hate the Utah Jazz too.
 
pumpkinsaren'torange, I've been thinking of what I could do to respond to your above posts. I could either address each point one at a time and enter into a huge debate with you. Or, I could give you the URL below and ask that you read through the web site it leads to.

You seem to have this huge chip on your shoulder regarding Mormonism, so I think I will do the latter. That way, if you are sincerely seeking the truth about the Church, this web site may help you understand the LDS position. And if you're not sincerely seeking to know the truth, but rather are just provoking a fight with me, well, no thanks. Jesus said in the Book of Mormon that the spirit of contention is not of Him, but is of the devil. So please read the web site and think about what it says with an open mind.

I'm not getting into a huge debate, sorry. Here's the site:

LDS Doctrine and the Trinity

God bless.
 
thanks, Lamp, but, i do know a cop-out when i see/read one.

i will look at that site, no problem. ..i could also post some links to ex-mormons (yes, momons who quit the church ) web-sites...there are quite a few, you'd be surprised... let me know if you'd be interested in reading thousands of these ex-mormons testimonies ...i will post the links here if you are so inclined.


nope, no chip, i just want people to see the truth for what it is...the truth. Momon's don't have "the truth" in them. they are being deceived...and, the sad part is...they don't even realize it.
 
Holy Underwear, Batman!!!!!!!

Jesus said in the Book of Mormon that the spirit of contention is not of Him, but is of the devil.
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Jesus wasn't physically around when the book of Mormon was written. He was when the New Testament was, however.
 
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