Mormon Teachings

[hug-a-tree]

I'm not much like my earthly father, or my heavenly father to be honest.
They are both perfect survivors.

What happens to the mormons who become gods, they then have to become trinities and have the "son" die? No, obviously.
I just think the idea of having someone who rides around on their bike in a uniform evolve into a god, other than in the hindu or buddhist fashion of becoming unified with God, is silly.

I don't think so. I mean I guess they could do that...they're the God.
You have a really cute dog picture.

 

[Kerry Shirts]

Cole Grey:
I'm not much like my earthly father, or my heavenly father to be honest.
They are both perfect survivors.

Kerry:
In the Zohar, the teaching is that we are created in the image of God, following the Genesis account, and because we are created in that image, we partake of its nature, i.e. God.......... the Jews understood this to mean we are in the same form as God, and partake of his nature (Paul's teaching also incidentally). In "Beresheet" the Prologue, we read "In the sight of the sons of men" (Tehilim - Psalms - 31:20). This is the lower Garden of Eden, where all the righteous stand in the spirit. which is clothed in a precious garment, in the same way and form that they appeared in this world. Thus, the phrase, "in the sight of the sons of men," means in the same form as human beings that live in this world. And they stand there and then rise up in the air, ascending to the celestial academy in the upper Garden of Eden." ("Zohar," Vol. 1, p. 68)

The Zohar overwhelmingly teaches the ancient Hermetic doctrine of "As Above, so Below," meaning that what is on earth is what is in heaven. Margaret Barker has a book discussing this "On Earth as it is in Heaven: Temple Symbolism in the New Testament," T & T Clark, 1995.

Again, the Zohar teaches that as there is an earthly tabernacle that Israel produced, they did so because there is also the heavenly tabernacle which the earthly model took after. Men are created in God's image, because we are Gods since we are the God's offspring (again, another teaching of Paul, and even Peter in the New Testament)........

 

[cole grey]

When I use the word "God", it is not just a person who has become something higher than a person.
It sounds silly to me in the same way as someone saying they will become the eternal Dao but maintain their seperate persona, or become brahma but maintain their exclusive selfhood.

 

[hug-a-tree]

huh?

 

[Kerry Shirts]

I'm with hug-a-tree, huh? Perhaps you can explain further what you mean for us? Thanks

 

[ArtofWar]

Exaltation Eats The Dick!

Brought to you by Atheist Productions!

 

[Kerry Shirts]

Oh the intelligence exuded by THAT! LOL!

 

[cole grey]

the uncreated... we're not that.
the great I AM, etc.
At least my seperate self, my ego is not that.
What I am saying is - you can't not be the great I am and then later, you are that, that's what I think.

The mormons aren't talking about a connecting with the great I am, but rather becoming another version of one on another planet, maybe not exactly the same but similar - I guess the difference falls into the realms of the esoteric and so we would probably need an expert to explain that.

I hate to generalize, I'm sure some mormons are just talking about a type of heaven, others don't even believe in the idea.

 

[cole grey]

art of war - that was a good link, although cleverly disguised as a badly phrased epithet, it was quite interesting.

 

[Jenyar]

Again, the Zohar teaches that as there is an earthly tabernacle that Israel produced, they did so because there is also the heavenly tabernacle which the earthly model took after. Men are created in God's image, because we are Gods since we are the God's offspring (again, another teaching of Paul, and even Peter in the New Testament)........

And Hebrews tell us a little more of the similarity and the difference:

Heb. 9:11-12
When Christ came as high priest of the good things that are already here, he went through the greater and more perfect tabernacle that is not man-made, that is to say, not a part of this creation. He did not enter by means of the blood of goats and calves; but he entered the Most Holy Place once for all by his own blood, having obtained eternal redemption.
..
23-24 It was necessary, then, for the copies of the heavenly things to be purified with these sacrifices, but the heavenly things themselves with better sacrifices than these. For Christ did not enter a man-made sanctuary that was only a copy of the true one; he entered heaven itself, now to appear for us in God's presence.​

From Hebrews it is clear that though the earthly things are copies according to the heavenly pattern, they are mere shadows (Heb. 8:5), and the heavenly things are "the thing itself". A shadow is definitely not a copy of a thing, in the way you explain it here.

 

[c7ityi_]

be perfect, like your father in heaven is perfect.

 

[Kerry Shirts]

Yes, and this perfection, following the Greek means being whole, or rather being fulfilled. By following the law, one becomes perfect. It is possible, or it would never have been brought up as a challenge. That doesn't make it easy, but it is possible. The Zohar teaches the same thing, that by connecting and drawing down the light of the upper worlds, our lower world can be perfected, and all spirits cleave to spirits and light cleaves to light, and they become one, which is satisfactory, is how the Zohar puts it. It's fascinating........

 

[WildBlueYonder]

Yes, and this perfection, following the Greek means being whole, or rather being fulfilled. By following the law, one becomes perfect.

that is way too Jewish, don't you know Paul & the Council of Jerusalem put to rest the Law for Gentiles, & unless you're circumcised, you are a Gentile, see Acts 15 below:

http://www.godrules.net/library/kjv/kjvact15.htm
15:1 And certain men which came down from Judaea taught the brethren, [and said], Except ye be circumcised after the manner of Moses, ye cannot be saved.

15:2 When therefore Paul and Barnabas had no small dissension and disputation with them, they determined that Paul and Barnabas, and certain other of them, should go up to Jerusalem unto the apostles and elders about this question.

It is possible, or it would never have been brought up as a challenge. That doesn't make it easy, but it is possible.

its not a challenge, its part of a statement, see below:

http://www.godrules.net/library/kjv/kjvmat5.htm
5:43 Ye have heard that it hath been said, Thou shalt love thy neighbour, and hate thine enemy.
5:44 But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;
5:45 That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust.
5:46 For if ye love them which love you, what reward have ye? do not even the publicans the same?
5:47 And if ye salute your brethren only, what do ye more [than others]? do not even the publicans so?
5:48 Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.

The Zohar teaches the same thing, that by connecting and drawing down the light of the upper worlds, our lower world can be perfected, .

why are you quoting kabbalah? it has no validity in discussing christian ideas, see below:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zohar
Zohar
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia.

The Zohar (Hebrew זהר "Splendor, radiance") is widely considered the most important work of Kabbalah, Jewish mysticism. It is a mystical commentary on the Torah (the five books of Moses),

 

[Kerry Shirts]

“ Originally Posted by Kerry Shirts
Yes, and this perfection, following the Greek means being whole, or rather being fulfilled. By following the law, one becomes perfect. ”

that is way too Jewish, don't you know Paul & the Council of Jerusalem put to rest the Law for Gentiles, & unless you're circumcised, you are a Gentile, see Acts 15 below:

Kerry:
LOL! I take it you haven't a clue about Greek eh? Oh I can see you are going to be fun wrapping around trees here..................

(snip other irrelevancies)

Kerry had said:
“ The Zohar teaches the same thing, that by connecting and drawing down the light of the upper worlds, our lower world can be perfected, .
”

why are you quoting kabbalah? it has no validity in discussing christian ideas,

To show folks like yourself that there are other views and religions besides your own that millions of folks love and live by and gain enlightenment from.

 

[WildBlueYonder]

“ Originally Posted by Kerry Shirts
Yes, and this perfection, following the Greek means being whole, or rather being fulfilled. By following the law, one becomes perfect. ”

that is a jewish idea, just in case you didn't know

Kerry:
LOL! I take it you haven't a clue about Greek eh?

now you're gonna tell us you're a 'greek' scholar? you'll do better just giving it to us in plain english, mister

Oh I can see you are going to be fun wrapping around trees here..................

I'm glad you are so easily amused, it'll save you money in the long run, hehehehe

(snip other irrelevancies)

what a backhand way of giving someone a slap, you must really think you are so clever, of course you do, why else would you include it?

To show folks like yourself that there are other views and religions besides your own that millions of folks love and live by and gain enlightenment from.

fine, I've always wanted to know more about the origin of the Hindu caste system, can you obliged?

 

[cole grey]

Actually, the hindu caste system evolved from the basic idea that it was an affront to the gods if an individual goes against the order of the universe. This order was then figured out and imposed on everyone, by some guys who said they were "experts".
Same problem as everywhere, different environment, different unfair solution.

P.s. if hug-a-tree is around, that is my dog, hayward.

 

[Kerry Shirts]

“ Kerry:
LOL! I take it you haven't a clue about Greek eh? ”

now you're gonna tell us you're a 'greek' scholar? you'll do better just giving it to us in plain english, mister

Where do you come up with these braintwisted idiot interpretations of what I say? Where have I *ever* claimed to be some sort of a Greek scholar?


(snip)
“ To show folks like yourself that there are other views and religions besides your own that millions of folks love and live by and gain enlightenment from. ”

fine, I've always wanted to know more about the origin of the Hindu caste system, can you obliged?

No. Because I am far more interested in the ancient and modern covenant peoples the Jews, than I am others for the time being. Perhaps my interests will expand and I shall jump into them. You have arms, legs, and a brain, use them to learn for yourself what you wish. I am here teaching you about Mormonism because of your snide attitude towards it.

 

[WildBlueYonder]

No. Because I am far more interested in the ancient and modern covenant peoples the Jews, than I am others for the time being.

good for you, we should have long conversations on this topic, being that I almost converted to Judaism when I was younger, I was a centimeter away

Perhaps my interests will expand and I shall jump into them. You have arms, legs, and a brain, use them to learn for yourself what you wish. I am here teaching you about Mormonism because of your snide attitude towards it.

good, then you can answer a few questions:
if the BoM is a record of ancient peoples of the Western Hemisphere

1) why is there no archeological proof of these peoples existence & no BoM sites?
2) why does the DNA of Native Peoples register Siberia/Asian & not Jewish?
3) why did no one ever see the BoM plates, except through 'peepstones' & 'spiritually'?
4) why did most of Joe Smith's religious activities follow closely, established 'money-digging' practices, of which he was one?
5) why does the BoM have tons of anachronisms?
6) why does the BoM fail to mention the Native Peoples that were everywhere around all the Western Hemisphere?
7) why are there no examples of "Reformed Egyptian"?

& about the BoA
8) why is the only example of Joe Smith's translating abilities in Egyptian (the BoA fragment), really about the "Book of the Dead" & not about Abraham as J.S. claimed?

 

[Kerry Shirts]

good for you, we should have long conversations on this topic, being that I almost converted to Judaism when I was younger, I was a centimeter away

Ah! I am so jealous! LOL! If I weren't Mormon, I would be a ........ a........mess!

“ Perhaps my interests will expand and I shall jump into them. You have arms, legs, and a brain, use them to learn for yourself what you wish. I am here teaching you about Mormonism because of your snide attitude towards it. ”

good, then you can answer a few questions:

if the BoM is a record of ancient peoples of the Western Hemisphere

And here you are so wrong already off on the wrong foot, that all your questions below are useless until we get it right from the start...........

Go read the BofM and tell me where it begins.........where they are, who they are, etc. What their culture baggage is, the political milieu they came out of, what assumptions about prophets and scriptures and wars were from, who they had to read, and contend with, i.e. what other cultures were around them, interacting with them etc. When you get that part correct, we can begin.

Best,
Kerry

 

[Kerry Shirts]

& about the BoA
8) why is the only example of Joe Smith's translating abilities in Egyptian (the BoA fragment), really about the "Book of the Dead" & not about Abraham as J.S. claimed?

Do you have sources, so I can see just how far you have looked into this? I disagree that Abraham is not involved with the facsimiles, and I have the Egyptological materials to show that. I presented at the Sunstone Symposium this last August on just this topic. So I have the materials to discuss, I just need to see what yours are.

And you may show some respect and call him Joseph, as his name is. There is no need to be an immature 14 year old snot boobie baby brat about his name. It won't send Satan skimmering into your stupid blood to properly address Joseph Smith as such. O.K.? Lets get mature already shall we. Its positively idiotic to act like your 14 in public. Truly, it impresses none of us here anymore. Grow up and show some maturity and scholarship.