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Fed Shrugged as Subprime Crisis Spread

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WASHINGTON — Until the boom in subprime mortgages turned into a national nightmare this summer, the few people who tried to warn federal banking officials might as well have been talking to themselves.

Edward M. Gramlich, a Federal Reserve governor who died in September, warned nearly seven years ago that a fast-growing new breed of lenders was luring many people into risky mortgages they could not afford.

But when Mr. Gramlich privately urged Fed examiners to investigate mortgage lenders affiliated with national banks, he was rebuffed by Alan Greenspan, the Fed chairman.

In 2001, a senior Treasury official, Sheila C. Bair, tried to persuade subprime lenders to adopt a code of “best practices” and to let outside monitors verify their compliance. None of the lenders would agree to the monitors, and many rejected the code itself. Even those who did adopt those practices, Ms. Bair recalled recently, soon let them slip.

Read the story
 
The lenders aren't the only problem. Morons with bad credit and no money down were the biggest problems.
 
The lenders aren't the only problem. Morons with bad credit and no money down were the biggest problems.

Er, if the lenders weren't stupid enough to give the morons with bad credit and no money down the loans to begin with, then we wouldn't be in this problem would we?
 
Remember her view of reality is not based on evidence- it's based on whatever is convenient for her to believe.... :rolleyes:

i know but something about willful ignorance gets to me. i just do not understand how someone can chose to be that ignorant i mean a good deal of conservatives here i can follow their logic even if i don't agree with it. but sandy's view is so out of touch with reality i feel the need to try and get her to a more normal sane viewpoint because some of the beliefs and ideas she favors are dangerous.
 
31 Busted for Mortgage Fraud

Feds indicted 31 people in Miami for a mortgage fraud scheme involving at least 28 properties and fraudulent loans totaling more than $14.2 million. :mad:

Criminals are at every stage of the transactions including bank employees, title agents, appraisers and fake buyers. :mad:
Juan Torrens, Daniel Ramos, Alonso A. Muxo, and Roger Rosario are among the criminals in BIG trouble.

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/12/18/u...&ex=1198558800&partner=MYWAY&pagewanted=print

FL has the highest rate of mortgage fraud in the country.
This is called God's law of sowing and reaping. You sow fraud, you get a housing crash. FL sucks. :mad:
 
i know but something about willful ignorance gets to me. i just do not understand how someone can chose to be that ignorant i mean a good deal of conservatives here i can follow their logic even if i don't agree with it. but sandy's view is so out of touch with reality i feel the need to try and get her to a more normal sane viewpoint because some of the beliefs and ideas she favors are dangerous.

You're calling me ignorant, out of touch, etc and you can't even F-ing spell or punctuate. Get spellcheck for God's sake. :mad:
 
The lenders aren't the only problem. Morons with bad credit and no money down were the biggest problems.

You are partially correct but did not see it through. It is more like, the borrowers lost their job due to the wonderful economy?
 
No. They are greedy. They wanted new homes they couldn't afford so they got a super-low teaser rate loan. They should not have bought homes they couldn't afford. Many had bad/no credit and no money down. This is no way to buy a home.
The unemployment rate is down in the toilet. Anyone can get a job.
 
Where did you find that? any links as to how that demographics are spread out? Like saying so many percentage had no money down etc?
 
He has NEVER lied about ANYTHING. Your leftwingnut sites say otherwise, but they are delusional in their tin foil hats. :rolleyes:

Now you're lying.

During the 2004 campaign, Bush claimed “Now, by the way, any time you hear the United States government talking about wiretap, it requires -- a wiretap requires a court order. Nothing has changed, by the way. When we're talking about chasing down terrorists, we're talking about getting a court order before we do so.”

Bush’s statement is false, since he was conducting wiretaps without warrants.
 
Discounting, for the moment, Sandy's stunning lack of compassion or understanding, the mortgage crisis means alot more than just some people not being able to keep their house. These sub-prime mortgages have been packaged into financial entities that are traded. When they default, we are all affected. Just like in 1929.






Events are driving us now, not personalities or even policies. Ben Bernanke, Hank Paulson, and the other characters in the headlines might pretend that they are managing things, but the truth is that problems in the financial sector have spun wildly out of control. The wheels are coming off and we are in that long sickening moment of sideways sliding motion when no attempt at steering will avail to avoid the crash. That it is happening at the very height of the Christmas season, when events have previously been controllable -- the season of manufactured Santa Claus rallies and $50 million bonuses -- shows how perilous the situation is.

The reason the financial sector is crashing is really pretty simple: it created too many fraudulent securities. What has been conspicuously absent so far is any sense of accountability for what may go down as history's greatest swindle. It's really impossible to imagine that a bunch of low-ranking worker bees in the banking hives spun out all these bundles of collateralized debt obligations, mortgage-backed securities, and similar trash on their own without the say-so of their bosses -- a group that includes the current Secretary of the Treasury, Mr. Paulson, formerly CEO of the Goldman Sachs organization. And, of course, the questions naturally follow: what about those in charge of the ratings agencies that awarded AAA status to high-risk junk investments; and where were the banking regulators when outfits like Countrywide Financial, Washington Mutual, and Ditech were handing out miracle mortgages to borrowers without normal qualifications; and where was the Securities and Exchange Commission when the wholesale trade in creatively-engineered debt instruments ramped up to high volume, and what was the board of directors at Merrill Lynch thinking when it allowed disgraced CEO Stan O'Neal to back a truck up to the company loading dock and fill it up with $160 million in bonus-and-termination payments after O'Neal presided over at least $8 billion in losses?

What we're also seeing is a crisis of authority on top of a crisis of capital, and it will probably lead to a crisis of legitimacy -- by which I mean a catastrophic loss of faith that this society can govern itself at any level. Leadership across the board has failed, in government, in business, in what used to be called the press, and in education. Leadership in every sector went along with the program, marveling stupidly at their society's ability to get something for nothing.

The general public did not perform any more honorably -- due to whatever failure of civic norms they operate within -- and indeed the nation as a whole may deserve all the suffering it faces. But however bad the general public's behavior, or dark their fate, a failure of civic norms is ultimately a failure of leadership, which is about clearly stating the boundaries and terms of behavior. When anything goes, nothing matters. Since that was our leaders' attitude, the public did what it naturally does: it follows the example set by leadership.

We haven't begun to see where all this will lead yet. Since what is happening is basically the evaporation of trillions of dollars in supposed wealth. At the very least we're likely to see an impoverished nation very soon short of money to buy necessities. Historically this is known as a ruinous deflation. The last time America went through such an experience was the Great Depression of the 1930s. Like this situation, it came at the end of an extraordinary expansion of credit -- loans largely made in that day for the purchase of stock "on margin."

One difference between then and now is that in 1929 a relative small minority of Americans were involved in stock purchases. Today, a relative large number of ordinary citizens own overpriced houses bought using extraordinarily risky loans, and a large number of institutions such as pension funds, banks, hedge funds, and money markets own fraudulent securities based on these house loans, worth a fraction of their face value. Some other differences this time around: in the background is a "real" economy of depleting natural resources (oil, soils, aquifers, etc) and the systematic disassembly of an industrial manufacturing infrastructure. In the 1930s, many people could return to family farms and get by, even with little money. Today there are far fewer family farms.

The nation is acting just now like a crowd of bystanders watching a car wreck that has nothing to do with them -- as though they were just occupying the Nascar grandstand on a particularly bad day. They'll discover soon that it's their own society that's hit the wall out there on the track. It raises the question, under the circumstances, as to whether the next presidential election will have any legitimacy.

----------------------------

The clowns in charge of things understandably feel that they have to do something -- or pretend to -- in the face of what is shaping up to be not just a credit "crunch," but a potentially lethal illness in the credit system per se -- that is, in the very process of trading in paper that claims to represent faith in the future creation of wealth. That process underlies all of modern finance. Investments, currencies, economies, and nations hang in the balance.

President Bush, seeming very much the clown-in-chief, led the way last week by proposing a mortgage crisis bail-out that would appear to have no chance whatsoever of working as advertised. He called it, arrestingly, the Hope Now Alliance. It blithely assumed that those "servicing" mortgages -- that is, collecting the monthly payments -- have the ability to suspend scheduled upward re-sets of adjustable mortgages for five years for certain select homeowner payees -- so that theoretically said homeowners could avoid foreclosure.

What might have worked in 1934, when the originators of mortgages were local banks that also "serviced" them (i.e. collected the monthly payments) is unlikely to avail today since the mortgages have been sold off in bunches to pension funds, hedge funds, money markets, and foreign investment funds -- none of which have an interest or the ability to renegotiate loans with millions of schlemiels from Cleveland to Denver to Fresno -- while the companies "servicing" these contacts are mere errand boys, with no say over the terms of anything they collect on.

So, what if these loans are not "restructured," that is, renegotiated on new terms by both parties on what is, after all, a contract? What if the government just "declares" that the current terms are void? Since the mortgage contracts have been bundled into bonds and sold off, it means that the value of the bonds is no longer what they were sold to represent. So, while a command to suspend mortgage re-sets might give comfort to schlemiels who used bad judgment in signing mortgage contracts for houses they couldn't afford, it will further impair the value of the bonds dispersed throughout the investment markets and increase disarray in the basic system of creating future credit. That is, if it worked as advertised.

But how can it work? The president said that this relief action would apply only to those who were current in their payments or no more than 60 days behind. Is it possible that a federal bureaucracy that could not even helicopter bottled water to desperate people trapped in plain sight on highway overpasses in New Orleans in 2005 can process millions of sheaves of relief applications in 60 days? Or even concoct the forms and print them?

Even if the paperwork could be designed, printed, and distributed overnight, in reality, the applications would collect in the in-boxes for decades. Meanwhile there would be no way to meaningfully establish time-based qualifications for relief. The absurd process would quickly only cast more doubt on the market value of the bonds sitting "out there" while it would create a monumental disincentive for any financial enterprise to lend money for future mortgages (or perhaps anything else). So the New Hope Alliance would have the dual effect of killing the housing "industry" and the credit markets. It could easily have a third and not inconsiderable effect of destroying the credibility of the currency of the nation engaging in such obviously foolish political theatrics. And if the dollar goes, the entire global system of currencies could enter a state of dangerous instability.

These are some of the hazards of suspending law as applied to financial markets, which can only function on the basis of contract law. Once contract law goes out the window, so does the faith of parties with reserve capital in lending out capital at interest. If the interest rate can be changed arbitrarily or capriciously by third parties, then those with capital would be better off buying gold or impressionist paintings or Manhattan apartments or private armies for protecting their Hampton estates, than lending money at interest established by contract.

Anyway, this argument is academic because the Hope Now Alliance is just a political sham. The purpose of it is not to save the hapless occupants of over-leveraged houses, but first to buy a little more time so that the worker bees in the financial industry can justify awarding each other multi-million-dollar Christmas bonus packages, and second, to postpone the "workout" of all this bad investment as far into the future as possible.

I have been wrong in the past about timing things, but I don't see any way on God's green earth that such a workout of mis-investment can be put off until somebody else is sworn in to lead the government in January 2009. The capital allocation system is already listing and groaning like a leaky ship in a hurricane.

Maybe all the players really know that keeping the ship afloat until Christmas is really the best they can hope for. Christmas means a lot in this country. It represents all Americans' old hope that miracles can happen. Bums turn out to be Santa Claus. Old curmudgeons are transformed overnight into loving uncles. Angels save us when we jump despairingly into icey torrents. And Goldman Sachs executives pass out multi-million-dollar checks to the wizards who "innovated" an ingenious way for the rest of their country to commit financial suicide.


http://jameshowardkunstler.typepad.com/clusterfuck_nation/
 

Maybe all the players really know that keeping the ship afloat until Christmas is really the best they can hope for. Christmas means a lot in this country. It represents all Americans' old hope that miracles can happen. Bums turn out to be Santa Claus. Old curmudgeons are transformed overnight into loving uncles. Angels save us when we jump despairingly into icey torrents. And Goldman Sachs executives pass out multi-million-dollar checks to the wizards who "innovated" an ingenious way for the rest of their country to commit financial suicide.

The ship will start sinking come January, but until there is high profile shootings, and attempted suicides using cars, no one will do a thing....:mad:
 
"Jesse Jackson and I agree on one thing… we both dislike the mortgage bailout proposed by President Bush. But that’s where our agreement ends. Because instead of opposing the bailout as yet another government handout to those who refuse to take personal responsibility for their own actions, the race-pimp Jackson sees the giveaway as not big enough…

Rev. Jesse Jackson and other U.S. civil rights leaders converged on Wall Street on Monday to demand the government and the financial community step up aid to stem a home-loan foreclosure crisis.

At a rally in lower Manhattan, activists said homeowners needed more help to restructure their loans and avoid losing their houses.

“We’re standing to stop an economic tsunami,” Jackson told a crowd of more than 200 people. “Our government has an obligation, not only to borrowers but to the economy itself.”

While we’re on the subject of obligation, how about we discuss the contractual obligation of those who borrowed more than they should have? How about we take a look at those who did not take personal responsibility, like the rest of us, to borrow within their means? Why is it the government’s responsibility to now come in and help these overextended debtors get a better deal?

I agree that the President’s proposal sucks… because I don’t think he should’ve made it to begin with.

These folks played the adjustable rate mortgage game and lost. That was the risk they took when they signed the contract. It was also the risk the lenders took in advancing these folks the money without demanding more solid proof of their ability to repay. It’s the high price of education.

Jackson said the protesters want “renegotiation and restructuring [of loans] and not repossession of homes.”

Rhyming doesn’t make it work any better. How about a federal bailout for car owners too? Perhaps we can shakedown the government to help those who overextended themselves into Cadillacs when they should’ve been looking at Fords so they can keep from having their rides repossessed as well.

While normal, responsible citizens continue to make timely payments on loans they took out - forgoing other luxuries in life until they fulfill their financial obligation - the President is helping the rest ditch their responsibilities completely so they can stay in the homes they never should’ve purchased to begin with… and all the while the race peddlers are demanding a bigger handout.

If Jackson and his race peddlers want to address the issues in the black community, they should stop focusing on lenders and spend more time with borrowers. Educate the culture that values $100 basketball shoes over food for the family. Teach them that having no hidden assets is not a financially responsible way to go through life. Calling them victims and demanding government assistance everytime they fall short will only teach them to continue to rely on bailouts over personal responsibility.

As Bill Cosby said:

Cosby told his critics, “Come at me all you want.” To those who criticized him for blaming the victim by preaching personal responsibility, he said: “I know a victim when I see one. And so did Christ. And so does God know victims. And so do we all recognize victims. But some victims you can look at and say, ‘Get up.’ “

That is, unless, you can force the feds to ‘pony up’."

http://www.texasrainmaker.com/
Dec. 13
 
NEW YORK - Stocks rose Tuesday after investors found solace in the European Central Bank’s $500 billion loan issuance, but the possibility of recession in 2008 made for a back-and-forth session.

That is good news?
 
Yep. We will be fine. Between W bailing out the losers and all the other support we have, we'll be fine. We always are. :)
 
Discounting, for the moment, Sandy's stunning lack of compassion or understanding. . .
She's training to take Baron Max's place as the resident curmudgeon. The difference is that Max was only pretending to be like that just to remind us that there are some very uncaring people in the world.
. . . the mortgage crisis means alot more than just some people not being able to keep their house. These sub-prime mortgages have been packaged into financial entities that are traded. When they default, we are all affected. Just like in 1929.
As a matter of fact, some analysts are predicting that if this goes the wrong way it will be the nation's biggest financial crisis since 1929. You don't have to be a compassionate person to worry about that. It will put a lot of people out of work who thought they were taking care of business.
What has been conspicuously absent so far is any sense of accountability for what may go down as history's greatest swindle. It's really impossible to imagine that a bunch of low-ranking worker bees in the banking hives spun out all these bundles of collateralized debt obligations, mortgage-backed securities, and similar trash on their own without the say-so of their bosses -- a group that includes the current Secretary of the Treasury, Mr. Paulson, formerly CEO of the Goldman Sachs organization.
Because of my current contract I get a lot of the internal spam from the Treasury Dept. It turns out that they were caught flat-footed. It's their job to keep watch over the banks and prevent drenn like this from going down. But governments are ponderous, slow-moving organisms (growing more ponderous and slow-moving with every expansion: 15,000,000 Americans are now sucking at the public teat in civilian jobs) and they simply cannot keep up with the invention of new financial vehicles in real time. Subprime mortgages became a crisis before they even had the procedures in place to notice them, much less got a glacial-speed consensus on polices to regulate them. They have a huge backlog of problems like this. Another one is that retailers are screaming that they want the banks to do all credit card processing, because they have the best computer security and they would shut down the identity theft industry, but the frelling banks just don't want the expense of keeping track of people's purchases so they can process refunds. The Treasury Dept. is on the side of the retailers and consumers on this one but they just can't make things happen very quickly. If only because we all know how long it will take the banks to develop the new software even if they enthusiastically signed up for this tomorrow. Never forget that when you're talking about the finance industry you're talking about the earliest adopters of automated information systems so every change you want to make is a gigantic software revision project.
Leadership across the board has failed, in government, in business, in what used to be called the press, and in education. Leadership in every sector went along with the program, marveling stupidly at their society's ability to get something for nothing. The general public did not perform any more honorably -- due to whatever failure of civic norms they operate within -- and indeed the nation as a whole may deserve all the suffering it faces.
Welcome to the Paradigm Shift. The Industrial Era is rolling over into the Information Age and all of our old institutions are beginning to sputter and fail. The corporation itself, a mechanism for accumulating and managing huge concentrations of capital, is an artifact of the Industrial Era. Information-based enterprises don't need so much capital and in fact are quietly blossoming in backwaters like Estonia and countries once dismissed as the Third World like India. The citizenry is as clueless as their leaders. Our entire vocabulary has to change, which is a big duh! in a paradigm shift. We are no longer going to be lowly "consumers" and "human resources."
We haven't begun to see where all this will lead yet.
Some of the futurists are actually getting their crystal balls pretty nicely Windexed. Toffler just came out with a new book in the school of Future Shock and The Third Wave and he's still in good form. His abomination is our educational system, and I couldn't agree more. Americans are being trained to be morons; the average university graduate reads at what in my generation was the sixth-grade level.
Since what is happening is basically the evaporation of trillions of dollars in supposed wealth.
Another way of saying that the huge surplus created by the economies of scale and division of labor of the Industrial Era is being rapidly dissipated by the obsolescence of its medium of storage. We've seen this happen before right here at home. The South had a huge store of capital in the form of human slaves. Industrialization reduced their value precipitously to a level at which it was not profitable to keep them. (German immigrants in Texas proved that freemen produce more cotton per dollar than slaves.) The rest of the hemisphere simply allowed the slaveowners to respond to economic pressure and free their slaves by attrition over the next thirty years. Lincoln decided to do it at gunpoint a generation earlier and it's not clear that was the wisest move in the long run. A rift still exists between Northerners and Southerners and between black Americans and White Americans, while the rest of the people in the Americas come in a spectrum of brown.
At the very least we're likely to see an impoverished nation very soon short of money to buy necessities. Historically this is known as a ruinous deflation. The last time America went through such an experience was the Great Depression of the 1930s. Like this situation, it came at the end of an extraordinary expansion of credit -- loans largely made in that day for the purchase of stock "on margin."
But there was no paradigm shift going on at the same time. The Industrial Era was in full swing and in fact the rebuilding of the war-ravaged countries as industrial powers after WWII was the engine of great prosperity, particularly for our former enemies Japan and Germany. America ironically invented computer technology, but it does not seem poised to take leadership of the so-called Information Infrastructure. Our contribution to that infrastructure is Windows, which on any sensible planet would be outlawed.
Some other differences this time around: in the background is . . . the systematic disassembly of an industrial manufacturing infrastructure. In the 1930s, many people could return to family farms and get by, even with little money. Today there are far fewer family farms.
Today people are going to have to become workers in the information processing sector, which is picking up the slack from the demise and/or automation of factory work. Unfortunately information processing lends itself to telecommuting and people in Uruguay and Bangladesh can now compete for those jobs, not to mention the better educated and equipped Chinese and Moldovans. I predict that the real payback for the next few generations of Americans is going to be for our cavalier treatment of the world's poor, who are now leapfrogging past the Industrial Revolution and setting themselves up with cellphones and PCs and hiring themselves out for $500 a month.
The nation is acting just now like a crowd of bystanders watching a car wreck that has nothing to do with them -- as though they were just occupying the Nascar grandstand on a particularly bad day. They'll discover soon that it's their own society that's hit the wall out there on the track. It raises the question, under the circumstances, as to whether the next presidential election will have any legitimacy.
Yes, the isolationism that came naturally in a gigantic country with two seacoasts will not prepare us for the "global village." The bright spot among the candidates is Ron Paul, who promises to halt the War on Islam. This will free much of the world's resources (including our own) for education, job training and infrastructure, as well as allowing us to lose our pariah status and rejoin the world community. He will also rein in the well-meaning but stultifying government nannies, who really don't have a clue about what they're doing and even when they do it takes them ten years to put it into action. Commerce in the Information Age moves far too fast to accommodate the processing speed of a government with twelve layers of bureaucrats who do nothing but "administer" each other..
The clowns in charge of things understandably feel that they have to do something -- or pretend to -- in the face of what is shaping up to be not just a credit "crunch," but a potentially lethal illness in the credit system per se -- that is, in the very process of trading in paper that claims to represent faith in the future creation of wealth. That process underlies all of modern finance. Investments, currencies, economies, and nations hang in the balance.
Information is the commodity that defines the new economy, and information can be duplicated and distributed almost for free, compared to the costs of industrial products. This Paradigm Shift we're undergoing has not even begun to shake down the structure of the economy. The very concept of money is going to have to change in ways that we still can't quite imagine.
President Bush, seeming very much the clown-in-chief, led the way last week by proposing a mortgage crisis bail-out that would appear to have no chance whatsoever of working as advertised. He called it, arrestingly, the Hope Now Alliance. It blithely assumed that those "servicing" mortgages -- that is, collecting the monthly payments -- have the ability to suspend scheduled upward re-sets of adjustable mortgages for five years for certain select homeowner payees -- so that theoretically said homeowners could avoid foreclosure.
This will only work if the government--i.e. you and me through our taxes assuming you and I don't have subprime ARMS--pumps cash into the market. The worst possible way for the subprime crisis to play out is for trillions of dollars worth of real estate to be foreclosed--that will result in destitute workers and gigantic writeoffs for banks. But forcing banks to carry the mortagages and write down the interest rates into the negative-profit zone is hardly any better. The writeoffs are still there and it will cause an implosion in the financial markets. The government has to subsidize the mortages and add another zero to the national debt. That's not a good long-term solution, but one of the inescapable realities of planning--financial or otherwise--is that the short term ALWAYS comes first.
 
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