Mohammed Bear vs Gitmo
- Thread starter S.A.M.
- Start date
So now we are responsible for detainees held by their own countries?
The mainstream media are continuing to use figures provided by the website Iraq Body Count (IBC) to sell the public a number for total post-invasion deaths of Iraqis that is perhaps 5-10% of the true death toll.
As we recently reported, only a handful of media outlets covered a new ORB poll revealing that 1.2 million Iraqis had been murdered since the 2003 invasion.
http://www.countercurrents.org/lens051007.htm
Who is responsible for detainees sent by the US to other locations?
They are being paid by us to hold them. We are getting them to do it to circumvent responsibility for the legality, among other reasons.
The IBC only records violent deaths that get officially reported.
A large portion of the deaths are not violent. The lancet study looks at the total increase of death rate due to all factors that have changed since Iraq rather than just direct combat deaths.
And I believe it has been known for sometime that a large portion of deaths in Iraq do not actually get officially reported.
A large portion of the deaths are not violent. The lancet study looks at the total increase of death rate due to all factors that have changed since Iraq rather than just direct combat deaths.
And I believe it has been known for sometime that a large portion of deaths in Iraq do not actually get officially reported.
And yet you accept it as 1.2 million (according to them) murders. shame.
Another factor is that most Iraqis bury their own dead. so when we have 40,000 dead but 500,000 widows, it is not difficult to see the extent of undercounting
Bells
Staff member
And you do know that you are not even following the justice system at all. Hence why the detainees in Gitmo are kept off American soil. You are not even following the rules under the Geneva Convention, which dictates the rules of keeping POW's. But the US has decided to be a bit sneaky in that regard, by not recognising them as POW's. Hence, they have absolutely no status whatsoever. Tell me, where exactly does that apply in the rules of conflict?
I wonder what the reaction of the US would have been if their soldiers were captured in combat and then held for 5 years without charge and without any rights at all.
But then, that would not be acceptable, now would it? After all, the US is, well, the US. And 'they' are 'they'.. As sandy said "POS", and thus, do not deserve any rights. You said it yourself. You are lucky to be so privileged. Shame the same does not apply to anyone you decide to detain without charge, trial or right to counsel, whether guilty or innocent. "Only 10k left"? Is that meant to be some kind of joke?
Your goal may not have been... well not directly anyway. I'll give you a hint... sanctions..
You are responsible when you force them to sign an agreement to never disclose any details of their stay in Gitmo, and any breach of said agreement could result in their being further incarcerated or sued. Get it now?
Another quote from that first article.
"An unknown number of those, who were in the direct custody of the USA but transferred to the custody of other governments, are believed to remain in the custody of those governments (including Yemen, Pakistan and Saudi Arabia)."
And how do you equate this to the other 60,000? You guys are killing me here. You arent just guessing are you?
My question was ok..maybe we had 70k at one time, but there are only a little over 10,000 left in gitmo..and you know what..lets take a high estimate and say 10k are held in other countries for the reasons you state. So 50,000 are kept from tell their stories of torture and abuse in gitmo? I dont think so.
Well, you did just quote without editing the earlier alledged 650k deaths as "murders"..am I to assume you do not think this correct?
What is your methodology for the "high estimate"...? I don't see your basis.
And you do know that you are not even following the justice system at all. Hence why the detainees in Gitmo are kept off American soil. You are not even following the rules under the Geneva Convention, which dictates the rules of keeping POW's. But the US has decided to be a bit sneaky in that regard, by not recognising them as POW's. Hence, they have absolutely no status whatsoever. Tell me, where exactly does that apply in the rules of conflict?
I wonder what the reaction of the US would have been if their soldiers were captured in combat and then held for 5 years without charge and without any rights at all.
"Only 10k left"? Is that meant to be some kind of joke?
Your goal may not have been... well not directly anyway. I'll give you a hint... sanctions..
You are responsible when you force them to sign an agreement to never disclose any details of their stay in Gitmo, and any breach of said agreement could result in their being further incarcerated or sued. Get it now?
Nah, they dont hold you..they just saw your head off with a butcher knife on live television.
On the 10k..hey..Im just going by what was posted. If you have a problem with that number, take it up with he who posted it.
and ROFL at you also thinking it is genocide and on the gitmo NDA. more guessing...
Oh. You do not think it is fair to call non-combat deaths murders?
I never called them murders, I don't think, but it is still awful. Just because we did not murder them doesn't make it OK to play a significant hand in their death.
And for numbers upto 2005:
The USA has detained approximately 70,000 people outside United States sovereign territory since 11 September 2001. More than 10,000 are believed to remain in direct US custody, in Iraq, Afghanistan, Guantánamo, and undisclosed locations. An unknown number of those, who were in the direct custody of the USA but transferred to the custody of other governments, are believed to remain in the custody of those governments (including Yemen, Pakistan and Saudi Arabia).
Still others are believed to be held without charge or trial in other countries at the behest of the USA or with its knowledge and access. These countries include Saudi Arabia, Pakistan and Yemen. They are believed to number in the hundreds, possibly thousands.
To date, no-one held outside the sovereign territory of the USA has been tried or convicted of any criminal offence. Four people have been charged and are awaiting trial by military commission in Guantánamo Bay.
According to official figures -- compiled by the Associated Press news agency based on information received from the US military, navy, CIA and Justice Department -- more than 100 people have died in US custody in Iraq and Afghanistan. At least 27 of the deaths were the result of suspected or confirmed homicides, according to the US Army in March 2005 (United States Army Criminal Investigation Command press release, 25 March 2005).
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my estimate is because there are no numbers stating how many are in "indirect" custody so I was giving the benefit of the doubt.
First, I think their estimate on deaths is BS. If they can find a way to troll around baghdad streets and poll almost 1500 families to come up with their estimates...how can they say a reporter there in the middle of it everyday cannot? Did they just happen to be there on a day when over a 1000 a day WASNT being killed?
Reporters are embedded with the army. They basically rely on the troops (ie the US for their information).