Moderate Faith vs Pure Atheism: Society

[S.A.M.]

It was a bet, hence why I said: "I bet.."

Frankly I don't see any reasoned arguments from you, (or indeed Norsefire for that matter), so there's very little you can complain about. My posts contained statistical data, yours contained personal discrimination. Hey, whatever.

Statistical data?

Wanna hear about the state of people under officially atheist rule?

 

[(Q)]

Then you need to look again; there is no doubt that, for instance, Christianity has played a MASSIVE role in the development of Western society, and to this day things such as the calendar, symbols, pledges and doctrines, as well as architecture and simply social order, is borrowed heavily from traditional Christian society.

Really? Did you actually have to stand up to pull that one out of your ass?

Faith is faith, it doesn't promote anything.

Ignorance. Intellectual dishonesty. Acceptance of the irrational and improbable as absolutes. To name a few...

Firstly educate yourself on the massive roles faith has played in the development of Humanity, because it most certainly has and only a fool would deny that.

The only "massive role" faith has played is the forced indoctrination of children into cults. Only a fool would defend that.

 

[Bells]

I suppose the main problem with atheism is firstly, the lack of spirituality, secondly, the emphasis on nongreater callings (which means, people care only for tv and money, not their nation and their family and honor), and lastly, is the complete lack of any sort of real spiritual value

I disagree.

I have theist relatives who put their church before their family, to the point where her youngest son (12 at the time), had to ring my mother at 9:30pm and ask her how to cook something in the oven because his parents had not come back from church yet and there was nothing in the house for him to eat. She also failed to do any grocery shopping because it interfered with her going to church and praying on others (laying on hands, etc). My father had to drive to their house and take him some food and then stayed with him until his parents returned 2 hours later. I believe many words were said upon their return.

As an atheist, I can assure you, my family will always come first and foremost. I must be severely abnormal then, because apparently I can only care for my family and the people in my life if I am a theist. Please!

 

[SnakeLord]

Wanna hear about the state of people under officially atheist rule?

Toilet plunger on standby.

 

[S.A.M.]

I disagree.

I have theist relatives who put their church before their family, to the point where her youngest son (12 at the time), had to ring my mother at 9:30pm and ask her how to cook something in the oven because his parents had not come back from church yet and there was nothing in the house for him to eat. She also failed to do any grocery shopping because it interfered with her going to church and praying on others (laying on hands, etc). My father had to drive to their house and take him some food and then stayed with him until his parents returned 2 hours later. I believe many words were said upon their return.

As an atheist, I can assure you, my family will always come first and foremost. I must be severely abnormal then, because apparently I can only care for my family and the people in my life if I am a theist. Please!

Would those people have been different individuals as atheists?

 

[(Q)]

I suppose the main problem with atheism is firstly, the lack of spirituality

The lack of the invisible and undetectable? On the contrary, there are oceans of the invisible and undetectable. hehe

secondly, the emphasis on nongreater callings (which means, people care only for tv...

I'll bet you a million dollars you have a TV and I don't.

and lastly, is the complete lack of any sort of real spiritual value

A value placed on the invisible and undetectable must be unimaginable.

 

[spidergoat]

Statistical data?

Wanna hear about the state of people under officially atheist rule?

That wasn't atheism per se, but rather a communist revolution, which was very much like a religion. In China, they had public conventions where the "sinners" would confess their capitalist sins and "come to the Lord", which was the socialist ideology.

 

[S.A.M.]

That wasn't atheism per se, but rather a communist revolution, which was very much like a religion. In China, they had public conventions where the "sinners" would confess their capitalist sins and "come to the Lord", which was the socialist ideology.

Yeah yeah and Saudi Arabia is not religious its just a regular monarchy.

 

[(Q)]

Well there was the time Q called me a crazy housewife, or something of the like.

An emotionally charged housewife.

Never crazy.

Always chic and austere.

Poignantly ferocious.

She's a killer queen...

 

[spidergoat]

The monarchy isn't that religious, they just use it to control the masses. Nothing new about that.

 

[superluminal]

Pure crap.

I know it's late in the thread, but I have to agree. The only reason "faith" has such a positive connotation for most people is because it is the mental paradigm that enables the acceptance of the otherwise fantastical and remains the tool that enslaves billions to a mindset that ranges from simple innocuous belief to radical fanaticism.

Faith is nothing more than willful, self imposed and fully acknowleged ignorance in the face of a complete lack of objective proof. You want to believe. You have no other pragmatic reason than that it makes you feel comfy.

 

[S.A.M.]

I know it's late in the thread, but I have to agree. The only reason "faith" has such a positive connotation for most people is because it is the mental paradigm that enables the acceptance of the otherwise fantastical and remains the tool that enslaves billions to a mindset that ranges from simple innocuous belief to radical fanaticism.

Faith is nothing more than willful, self imposed and fully acknowleged ignorance in the face of a complete lack of objective proof. You want to believe. You have no other pragmatic reason than that it makes you feel comfy.

So how is freedom from enslavement working out for you?

(Q) of course, should be nominated flag bearer for his exemplary outlook.

 

[superluminal]

So how is freedom from enslavement working out for you?

Pretty good. Except for the job I have to go to to survive. And the psychotropic drugs. Oh, and the... ahhh... nevermind. You win. Again.

 

[S.A.M.]

Pretty good. Except for the job I have to go to to survive. And the psychotropic drugs. Oh, and the... ahhh... nevermind. You win. Again.

It was an honest question, it always surprises me that the ones who cling most fervently to their ideologies seem the least satisfied with themselves.

 

[Bells]

Atheists may believe in the quality you call evil. Social Darwinism is an anachronistic concept and unscientific.

Yes. If someone acts like an arsehole and/or harms others, we blame him and not some "evil fallen angel" for his crimes.

Clearly these are closet atheists.

Of course!

 

[superluminal]

It was an honest question, it always surprises me that the ones who cling most fervently to their ideologies seem the least satisfied with themselves.

In truth then, I'm really dong well. My personal situation (you know, an upper-middle class american who is nicely insulated from the harsh realities of the larger world) gives me a sense of real freedom. I want for nothing. My job is actually really good. And I'm on the lowest possible daily dose of Zoloft.

Despite the BS that goes on here, I'm perfectly content with theist and non-theists alike. In fact, I'd welcome some astounding new evidence of an as-yet unknown realm of existence of some kind. It would liven things up a bit.

How're you doin' ?

 

[S.A.M.]

In truth then, I'm really dong well. My personal situation (you know, an upper-middle class american who is nicely insulated from the harsh realities of the larger world) gives me a sense of real freedom. I want for nothing. My job is actually really good. And I'm on the lowest possible daily dose of Zoloft.

Despite the BS that goes on here, I'm perfectly content with theist and non-theists alike. In fact, I'd welcome some astounding new evidence of an as-yet unknown realm of existence of some kind. It would liven things up a bit.

How're you doin' ?

Glad to hear that your vitriol against theists does not extend into real life

I'm fine.

 

[Bells]

Would those people have been different individuals as atheists?

She used to be an atheist. Well more agnostic really. Her husband was a Catholic. Then she "found the true Lord Saviour, Jesus Christ", became a born again and she hasn't looked back since. Literally. She used to be a mosaic potter artist. She used to get in huge orders for murals, etc. She also baked cakes.. as in really nice cakes for special occasions and was quite well known for it. I say "used" because she does not do any of that anymore. She became a full blown born again and devoted her life to Jesus. It was at around the same time that she stopped doing anything around the house, stopped going grocery shopping because "God kept her filled with love", so she just wasn't hungry.. shame for her kids who were.

Had she been an atheist and behaved this way, she would be considered a whack job who needed a good swift kick up the backside and some time away in a mental institution. She still is considered insane and in need of severe psychotherapy. If we could get her away from her religious nut bag friends and the only way to do that would be to get her husband on board. But that has been impossible so far. Reasons are many and frankly, I cannot go into it here.

Meh.. this just makes me angry.

She's a killer queen...

I have the gunpowder, gelatine and I'm also quite a bit of a dynamite with a laser beam.

 

[superluminal]

Glad to hear that your vitriol against theists does not extend into real life

I'm fine.

That's nice. My grandson's going to be ONE YEAR OLD next week! Unbelievable how time flies... Anyhoo...

*dons forum persona*

Faith is for doofuses.

 

[S.A.M.]

She used to be an atheist. Well more agnostic really. Her husband was a Catholic. Then she "found the true Lord Saviour, Jesus Christ", became a born again and she hasn't looked back since. Literally. She used to be a mosaic potter artist. She used to get in huge orders for murals, etc. She also baked cakes.. as in really nice cakes for special occasions and was quite well known for it. I say "used" because she does not do any of that anymore. She became a full blown born again and devoted her life to Jesus. It was at around the same time that she stopped doing anything around the house, stopped going grocery shopping because "God kept her filled with love", so she just wasn't hungry.. shame for her kids who were.

I've met a lot of religious people but I've never met any nuts like that.