Misogyny, Guns, Rape and Culture..

[cluelusshusbund]

A variety of things.
"From entitlement culture, where people believe they are entitled to have what they want, when they want it and their victims are not worthy of consideration in the equation...'

"one of the biggest root cause of rape culture is the acceptance of rape as an aspect of life and society. The acceptance that if you go to jail, you will more than likely be raped and the belief in society that this is acceptable and expected and desired for a portion of the population, to the belief and acceptance that if a woman dresses a certain way or drinks or behaves a certain way, then she was asking for it to the acceptance that if a guy is raped by a woman, it cannot really be rape because all men want sex."

Then that is what needs to be niped in the bud.!!!
So what causes people to thank that they have this type of entitlement... an "the acceptance of rape as an aspect of life and society".???

 

[Bells]

Then that is what needs to be niped in the bud.!!!
So what causes people to thank that they have this type of entitlement... an "the acceptance of rape as an aspect of life and society".???

A variety of reasons. All of which were listed in my previous post. It becomes a vicious circle.

 

[iceaura]

RAINN recommends a three-tiered approach when it comes to preventing sexual violence
on college campuses. A prevention campaign should include the following elements:

1. Bystander intervention education: empowering community members to act in
response to acts of sexual violence.
2. Risk-reduction messaging: empowering members of the community to take steps
to increase their personal safety.
3. General education to promote understanding of the law, particularly as it relates
to the ability to consent

So has it crossed your mind, especially in light of the posts you have been reading here, that there is a very large void in the middle of that "three tiered" (what's the hierarchy?) approach as presented by you? Can you identify the serious and central matter overlooked in there? Hint: it's what these people you have been slandering and twisting and lying about are posting here.

Something which most women, as individuals, are powerless to change.

Well then you'll have no trouble noticing that putting the burden of rape prevention on individual women is exactly what I have been arguing against.

It's irresponsible of you to tell women not to take measures to protect themselves, and instead rely on things outside of their control to protect them.

I posted nothing like that. Not even close. Where are getting these bizarre ideas?

 

[cluelusshusbund]

Bells
A variety of things.

From entitlement culture, where people believe they are entitled to have what they want, when they want it and their victims are not worthy of consideration in the equation, to the trivialising of rape and the shaming of victims (consider how many times you have seen or heard prison rape comments or jokes), to the belief that it is up to the victim to prevent being raped or are responsible for their own rape because they believe it is their behaviour which caused them to be raped, to ownership culture (this is especially the case for female victims), to the denial of rape or denial that rape is even a problem or refusal to accept what is or isn't rape (some still cannot accept that marital rape is "rape" and consider the fact that it was only until very recently that male rape was even recognised legally or classified as "rape") and a variety of other reasons.

But I think one of the biggest root cause of rape culture is the acceptance of rape as an aspect of life and society. The acceptance that if you go to jail, you will more than likely be raped and the belief in society that this is acceptable and expected and desired for a portion of the population, to the belief and acceptance that if a woman dresses a certain way or drinks or behaves a certain way, then she was asking for it to the acceptance that if a guy is raped by a woman, it cannot really be rape because all men want sex.

I could go on, but you get my drift.

cluelusshusbund said: ↑
So what causes people to thank that they have this type of entitlement... an "the acceptance of rape as an aspect of life and society".???

A variety of reasons. All of which were listed in my previous post.

Above is you'r prevous post... an it mentions entitlement culture... an "acceptance of rape as an aspect of life an society"... but what im askin is... what do you thank causes people to believe that they are entitled to have what they want wit-out consideration of ther victims... an what do you thank causes people to accept rape as an aspect of life an society.???

 

[Kittamaru]

As I remember your rapist was able to enter your home as you slept because your security system failed to alert you. If this man had stolen property or kidnapped one of your children, would you still be satisfied with your admitted inadequate security measures? Which are ultimately whose responsibility?

You self centered *edited out in favor of attempting to remain civil*... do you even understand what it is you are claiming here?

You MIGHT have a point, if, say, Bells had gotten shit-faced drunk and fallen asleep on the sidewalk in some seedy downtown back alleyway... but as we know, that isn't what happened here. You are, quite simply, trying to BLAME BELLS for someone breaking and entering into her home (first crime in and of itself), and then forcing himself upon her (crime number two).

Your equivocation here is like saying that someone who was shot during a mugging and left paralyzed from the waist down (spinal column being severed, for example) is somehow at fault for not wearing a bullet proof vest every time they go out in public.

No, seriously... fuck your attempted argument, simple as that. It is as absolutely disgusting as the act of rape itself, and at this point, I will say it as a matter of FACT: Statements like that MAKE YOU A RAPE APOLOGIST, plain and simple. You are BLAMING THE VICTIM for someone else breaking the law.

I don’t assume women to be stupid until they’ve shown themselves to be so. No one’s telling you how to behave or live, only presenting you with alternatives. You’re free to be as informed or ignorant as you please.

In other words, you feel it is the victims fault for not taking further methods - tell me, what methods would you deem to be "sufficient" in this case? A large-breed guard dog trained to attack anyone who enters the property uninvited? Or perhaps Bells should sleep with a gun under her pillow and simply SHOOT at any unknown noise she hears, regardless of her state of wakefulness. Maybe she should have a fifteen foot wide moat filled with sulfuric acid with a remote controlled drawbridge?

I'm sure all three of those options would be permitted by your average homeowners society, eh?

No, I believe it’s unreasonable for someone to expect ideal behavior in society when present conditions do not favor it. Until conditions do favor it, men and women will have to personally and collectively do what they are able to minimize their potential risk.

In other words, you believe it to be unreasonable for a someone to expect the average person to follow the law... fair enough. From now on, any time someone walks towards me on the street, I will unholster my sidearm, disengage the safety, and train my aim on them, because I cannot expect them NOT to mug/rape/assault/murder me.

I will trade my car in for a Lenco BearCat Armored Personnel Carrier, because I cannot reasonably expect people to obey traffic signals, stop signs, and general good judgement.

I will move out of my townhouse and into a hidden concrete bunker with a single entrance consisting of a four foot thick reinforced concrete door with a biometric lock, because I cannot reasonably expect a lock and deadbolt and window locks to prevent people from waltzing into my home. Oh, and the Pizza Delivery Guy will have to have a body cavity search and pass through both an X-ray and Thermal imaging scan to ensure he is not trying to smuggle explosives, drugs, or carrying some odd disease into my home, since I must prepare for any and all possibilities.

Do you COMPREHEND the stupidity of your statement? When you throw "reasonable expectations for someone to follow the law" out the window... you have just joined the ranks of doomsday prep'ers and the "aliens probed my anus" crowd.

While we’re on the subject of such epidemics, let’s not forget about infants who rape adults, pets who rape their masters or masters who rape their pets.

And here is where you lose ALL credibility, both as a debater and as a decent human being. You don't believe men can be raped? Do you have statistics to back that up? Because I have statistics... and they say you are full of shit.

https://www.rainn.org/get-information/statistics/sexual-assault-victims

Men
About 3% of American men — or 1 in 33 — have experienced an attempted or completed rape in their lifetime.1

• In 2003, 1 in every ten rape victims were male.2
• 2.78 million men in the U.S. have been victims of sexual assault or rape.

1 out of every 6 American women has been the victim of an attempted or completed rape in her lifetime (14.8% completed rape; 2.8% attempted rape)

One in Thirty Three... not nearly as bad as the statistics for women... but still, that ends up with nearly three million men being raped... now, admittedly, that does not distinguish between man vs man and woman vs man rape...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Male_rape#Female-on-male_rape

Female-on-male rape
A study done by the CDC found that 1 in 21 men (4.8%) reported that they had been forced to penetrate someone else, usually a woman, had been the victim of an attempt to force penetration, or had been made to receive oral sex.[2]

Male victims of sexual abuse by females[10] often face social, political, and legal double standards.[11] Some cases in the United States have received increased attention and sparked awareness within the population. Sometimes referred to as "made to penetrate" cases, male rape victims are forced to engage in penetration of the female without proper consent. Many times the male victims are under the influence of drugs or alcohol or being held in life-threatening positions. The case of Cierra Ross'[12] sexual assault of a man in Chicago gained national headlines and Ross was convicted of aggravated criminal sexual abuse and armed robbery with a bail set at $75,000. Cases like this one are often described as "unusual" or "uncommon." In the case of a female being a victim of sexual assault, the male criminal could face up to a life sentence in prison, whereas the punishment for a female rapist is far less severe. A similar case includes James Landrith.[13]

Several widely publicized cases of female-on-male statutory rape in the United States involved school teachers raping their under-age students. Federal law states that the age of consent in the United States is 18 nationally, but may range from 16-18 within differing states. Under federal law, any sexual encounters between adults and minors under the age of consent is considered sexual assault. (See Mary Kay Letourneau and Debra Lafave.)

Hm... interesting... so the CDC study is showing a slightly higher number of men have been forced or coerced into having sex with a woman...

You also apparently do not believe the fact that rape victims often know their assailant...

Children
15% of sexual assault and rape victims are under age 12.3

• 29% are age 12-17.
• 44% are under age 18.3
• 80% are under age 30.3
• 12-34 are the highest risk years.
• Girls ages 16-19 are 4 times more likely than the general population to be victims of rape, attempted rape, or sexual assault.

7% of girls in grades 5-8 and 12% of girls in grades 9-12 said they had been sexually abused.4

• 3% of boys grades 5-8 and 5% of boys in grades 9-12 said they had been sexually abused.

In 1995, local child protection service agencies identified 126,000 children who were victims of either substantiated or indicated sexual abuse.5

• Of these, 75% were girls.
• Nearly 30% of child victims were between the age of 4 and 7.

93% of juvenile sexual assault victims know their attacker.6

• 34.2% of attackers were family members.
• 58.7% were acquaintances.
• Only 7% of the perpetrators were strangers to the victim.

So, yeah, take your "holier than thou" attitude and fuck off, Capracus. Your victim blaming and rape excusing is NOT welcome here.

 

[cluelusshusbund]

https://www.rainn.org/get-information/statistics/sexual-assault-victims
Rape said:
Men
About 3% of American men — or 1 in 33 — have experienced an attempted or completed rape in their lifetime.1

• In 2003, 1 in every ten rape victims were male.2
• 2.78 million men in the U.S. have been victims of sexual assault or rape.

Rape said:

1 out of every 6 American women has been the victim of an attempted or completed rape in her lifetime (14.8% completed rape; 2.8% attempted rape)
​

Good find Kitt.!!!
3% of American men an 14.8% of American women have been rape/atempted rape victims... an asumin that the majority of rapes was by the opposit sex... begs the queston... are men inherently less moral than womens.???
​

 

[tali89]

This is a human rights issue.

• At what point does the rape "prevention" advice become a quality of life issue?​

To wit, at what point does telling women to plan on being assaulted no longer make sense to you?

You might notice how hard it is for people to answer the question.

What makes sense to *me* is irrelevant. This is solely about the welfare and autonomy of the woman, and what makes sense to her. It's not about me, and it's certainly not about you and your paternalistic dogma. Let's give women the facts, and then let each individual decide what suits her best.

 

[Capracus]

You MIGHT have a point, if, say, Bells had gotten shit-faced drunk and fallen asleep on the sidewalk in some seedy downtown back alleyway... but as we know, that isn't what happened here. You are, quite simply, trying to BLAME BELLS for someone breaking and entering into her home (first crime in and of itself), and then forcing himself upon her (crime number two).

So what kind of twisted logic do you employ that concludes that a perpetrator of burglary and rape is excused by a lapse in security? Did I claim that Bells put a lighted sign on her front lawn that said: Rapist Wanted, Inquire Within? No, I didn’t. Bells admitted in a previous post that her security system failed to detect the brake in. Bells is not responsible for the actions of her attacker, but is responsible for the maintenance of her security system.

Your equivocation here is like saying that someone who was shot during a mugging and left paralyzed from the waist down (spinal column being severed, for example) is somehow at fault for not wearing a bullet proof vest every time they go out in public.

Yes, let’s over dramatize the example and equate a sexual assault to becoming a quadriplegic; it’s a wonder half the adult population isn’t paralyzed from the neck down. I would’ve compared it to being the no fault victim in an auto collision who may have compounded their injuries by not wearing seatbelts.

No, seriously... fuck your attempted argument, simple as that. It is as absolutely disgusting as the act of rape itself, and at this point, I will say it as a matter of FACT: Statements like that MAKE YOU A RAPE APOLOGIST, plain and simple. You are BLAMING THE VICTIM for someone else breaking the law.

And if you consider asking a victim to access their ordeal for flaws in their risk prevention blaming the victim, then you’re a fool. If I was in bells’s position and someone had gotten past my security measures, I would take corrective action to make sure it didn’t happen again. Wouldn’t you?

In other words, you feel it is the victims fault for not taking further methods - tell me, what methods would you deem to be "sufficient" in this case? A large-breed guard dog trained to attack anyone who enters the property uninvited? Or perhaps Bells should sleep with a gun under her pillow and simply SHOOT at any unknown noise she hears, regardless of her state of wakefulness. Maybe she should have a fifteen foot wide moat filled with sulfuric acid with a remote controlled drawbridge?

I'm sure all three of those options would be permitted by your average homeowners society, eh?

Bells has made note of her affluence, so a good monitored security system and trained protection dogs would not be unreasonable in her case.

In other words, you believe it to be unreasonable for a someone to expect the average person to follow the law... fair enough. From now on, any time someone walks towards me on the street, I will unholster my sidearm, disengage the safety, and train my aim on them, because I cannot expect them NOT to mug/rape/assault/murder me.

I will trade my car in for a Lenco BearCat Armored Personnel Carrier, because I cannot reasonably expect people to obey traffic signals, stop signs, and general good judgement.

I will move out of my townhouse and into a hidden concrete bunker with a single entrance consisting of a four foot thick reinforced concrete door with a biometric lock, because I cannot reasonably expect a lock and deadbolt and window locks to prevent people from waltzing into my home. Oh, and the Pizza Delivery Guy will have to have a body cavity search and pass through both an X-ray and Thermal imaging scan to ensure he is not trying to smuggle explosives, drugs, or carrying some odd disease into my home, since I must prepare for any and all possibilities.

Do you COMPREHEND the stupidity of your statement? When you throw "reasonable expectations for someone to follow the law" out the window... you have just joined the ranks of doomsday prep'ers and the "aliens probed my anus" crowd.

You can reasonably expect whatever you want from society and its members, but you only get what actually results, which is why individuals are faced with making up that difference or not.

If the incidence of violent assault were high enough the average person might resort to such strategies for protection. If you care to broaden you prospective a little you may notice that there are places in the world that warrant such measures, but you and I likely don’t inhabit those locals and our assumed risk is proportionally much lower.

And here is where you lose ALL credibility, both as a debater and as a decent human being. You don't believe men can be raped? Do you have statistics to back that up? Because I have statistics... and they say you are full of shit.

I never said men can’t be raped or that men are not raped, my comment was directed at the significance of the classes of rape you cited.

Let’s examined how actual rape statistics compare to your assertion that female on male and female on female rape are significant trends in overall rape occurrence.

From:
Bureau Justice Statistics
An Analysis of Data on Rape and Sexual Assault
Sex Offenses and Offenders

Page 2

Overall, an estimated 91% of the victims of rape and sexual assault were female. Nearly 99% of the offenders they described in single-victim incidents were male.

Page 11

Sex of victim

About 10% of the rapes in the three States did not conform to the UCR definition of forcible rape.
¾ the victims were male (8.7% of rapes),
the victim and offender were both female (0.8%),
or the victim was male and the offender was female (0.2%).

http://www.bjs.gov/content/pub/pdf/SOO.PDF

So women rapists account for approximately 1% of total rapes, and two in ten of their victims are male. Do you get it; women offenders are relatively insignificant when it comes to rape in the US.

 

[Trooper]

So has it crossed your mind, especially in light of the posts you have been reading here, that there is a very large void in the middle of that "three tiered" (what's the hierarchy?) approach as presented by you? Can you identify the serious and central matter overlooked in there? Hint: it's what these people you have been slandering and twisting and lying about are posting here.

Well then you'll have no trouble noticing that putting the burden of rape prevention on individual women is exactly what I have been arguing against.

No. Do you understand how the three-tier educational system works? Hint: it isn't hierarchy.

 

[The Marquis]

What It Comes To

Yes, this is apparently what it comes to.

For months, a slice of the gaming subculture has waged a campaign of online harassment against prominent women in the videogame industry...​

Yes, of course you'd bring that up. I was waiting for it, actually. I did address it in advance in a prior post, in passing.

Fact is, the gaming culture has been infested with this kind of thing for decades.
You'll find, if you think about it a little more and look a little more closely, that is has very little to do with women. Any target will do. I was admin of a gaming server some years back, and I've heard it all.

I wonder if you realise that bringing this particular incident to attention now because the targets were women, in this case, only serves to highlight a form of misogyny in yourself.
The boys, after all, can apparently look after themselves.

 

[Bells]

Yes, of course you'd bring that up. I was waiting for it, actually. I did address it in advance in a prior post, in passing.

Fact is, the gaming culture has been infested with this kind of thing for decades.
You'll find, if you think about it a little more and look a little more closely, that is has very little to do with women. Any target will do. I was admin of a gaming server some years back, and I've heard it all.

I wonder if you realise that bringing this particular incident to attention now because the targets were women, in this case, only serves to highlight a form of misogyny in yourself.
The boys, after all, can apparently look after themselves.

Are you suggesting that pointing out misogyny is misogynistic?

Considering this thread is about misogyny in general... I am sure you get my drift..

Speaking of misogyny..

So what kind of twisted logic do you employ that concludes that a perpetrator of burglary and rape is excused by a lapse in security? Did I claim that Bells put a lighted sign on her front lawn that said: Rapist Wanted, Inquire Within? No, I didn’t. Bells admitted in a previous post that her security system failed to detect the brake in. Bells is not responsible for the actions of her attacker, but is responsible for the maintenance of her security system.

What lapse in security?

I have high walls, security gates, security screens and doors and an alarm, not to mention a dog. Short of posting armed guards around the perimeter of my home, or lazers which would nuke anyone entering my property a la 'Over the Hedge', I don't see how else I was somehow responsible for what you are now referring to my lapse in security.

The man who raped me was related by marriage to my ex-husband and to myself. So he knew my security system, he knew my schedule and he knew my dog.

By declaring that I have failed because I am responsible for that so called lapse in security and thus, bear some responsibility for being raped in my own home as I slept off the flu, you are placing the blame on me and placing the onus on me to not be raped.

And frankly, it is appalling, offensive and so misogynistic, that it requires no explanation in that regard.

Let me reiterate something for you. The only failure is the person who raped me. My home security was more than what most people have. I had ticked off all the boxes in the retarded "rape prevention" ideology your ilk prattle on about. But as is often the case, your rape prevention ideology does not deal with the realities of rape. And that is the fact that the greater majority of people are raped by people they know.

Certainly, you may have the twisted and perverted belief that I and all women should live our lives with the expectation that we are going to be raped and thus, we need to be prepared, but if high fences, security doors and gates, a dog, security doors and windows and an alarm system is classified as "lapsed" security, then frankly, you have got to be kidding yourself.

And if you consider asking a victim to access their ordeal for flaws in their risk prevention blaming the victim, then you’re a fool. If I was in bells’s position and someone had gotten past my security measures, I would take corrective action to make sure it didn’t happen again. Wouldn’t you?

And when the victim tells you there were no flaws in my security system. Because no one was going to imagine that my former brother in law or anyone else for that matter was going to stalk me for a long time and then break and enter into my home and rape me as I slept. There were no corrective measures to take. There is nothing more I can do. My rapist knew my house because he knew me and my family intimately because he had been a member of that family for many many years. Once again, moronic rape prevention ideology is incapable of dealing with the facts of rape, which is that most rapes are committed by people known to the victim.

So I am going to ask one last time. Stop placing the blame and the responsibility for my rape on me. The only person who is to blame is my rapist and the only person who is responsible is my rapist.

To declare that I was responsible because you believe I had failed to factor it all in in advance when planning my home security is victim blaming and victim shaming. Which in every sense of the word, if I am to be absolutely honest, just makes you a fucking misogynistic twat with your head up your arse.

Bells has made note of her affluence, so a good monitored security system and trained protection dogs would not be unreasonable in her case.

What does my "affluence" have to do with it?

Are you suggesting that women who are wealthy are somehow supposed to bear more responsibility to prevent being raped? And trained protection dogs? I have two small children who spend most of their time outside. Do you think I would be a responsible parent to have two dangerous attack dogs in my yard? I don't live in the White House. I live in a residential suburb.

Your suggestion that my so called affluence meant that I should have been more careful is once again, victim shaming and victim blaming.

Remember, I did not invite this crime. This is the action of a completely different individual who saw fit to do this to me. Your belief that my affluence and my failure to apparently maintain an adequate security system to prevent my rape and your earlier declaration that I was somehow more responsible and was in a better position to examine and 'address my so called inadequacies which led to my rape, than those of my rapist' is obscene and is the very basis of what classifies as rape apologist. That you dare whine that I had the apparent nerve to examine the inadequacies of my rapist makes you a rape apologist.

You have repeatedly attempted to blame me and shame me for my own rape. From when you queried why I did not sleep with my phone to your constant and repeated comments that I bore some responsibility for being raped in my own home because I apparently failed to maintain an adequate home security system which you believe my "affluence" should have seen me have security dogs patrolling my backyard and this is after you had the cheek to try to shame me further by asking me if I considered myself better or or some "infallible perfect creation" because I had dared to say that the only person responsible for what happened to me is the man who raped me.

 

[Kittamaru]

So what kind of twisted logic do you employ that concludes that a perpetrator of burglary and rape is excused by a lapse in security? Did I claim that Bells put a lighted sign on her front lawn that said: Rapist Wanted, Inquire Within? No, I didn’t. Bells admitted in a previous post that her security system failed to detect the brake in. Bells is not responsible for the actions of her attacker, but is responsible for the maintenance of her security system.

Oh, I don't know - you made the comparison here:

As I remember your rapist was able to enter your home as you slept because your security system failed to alert you. If this man had stolen property or kidnapped one of your children, would you still be satisfied with your admitted inadequate security measures? Which are ultimately whose responsibility?

I don’t assume women to be stupid until they’ve shown themselves to be so. No one’s telling you how to behave or live, only presenting you with alternatives. You’re free to be as informed or ignorant as you please.

When you said that it was because Bells security measures were somehow inadequate, you shifted the blame to her, ergo if her security system had been better, or she had had an attack dog on guard, the attacker could not have gotten in (to rob her or rape her, the intention is irrelevant in this example, since you are hung up on the "breaking and entering" aspect of the crime) Thus, you are blaming HER for allowing the attack to happen by saying the measures she took were somehow not enough. In other words, she is, apparently, responsible for the attackers actions.

Again, rape apologist, and utterly disgusting.

Yes, let’s over dramatize the example and equate a sexual assault to becoming a quadriplegic; it’s a wonder half the adult population isn’t paralyzed from the neck down. I would’ve compared it to being the no fault victim in an auto collision who may have compounded their injuries by not wearing seatbelts.

Okay, lets go with your comparison instead; you are now equating RAPE, a CRIME in which one person knowingly and WILLFULLY violates the law and another persons body, with a no-fault accident in which a person was injured simply because they were not wearing a seat belt..

So, now you are comparing a rapist to someone who "accidentally hit someone elses car"... it is telling that you view a persons own body as worth so little. If someone raped you, then told you "sorry, I wasn't watching who I was fucking", I guess you'd consider it a simple accident and just walk away happy, hm?

And if you consider asking a victim to access their ordeal for flaws in their risk prevention blaming the victim, then you’re a fool. If I was in bells’s position and someone had gotten past my security measures, I would take corrective action to make sure it didn’t happen again. Wouldn’t you?

Of course - and given that she reported this to the authorities, pursued it in court, and I am sure has taken measures at home, it would seem she has taken this quite seriously. The problem is, you are still trying to lay the blame for this happening on HER and her "supposedly inadequate" security system, as opposed to the person who committed the crime.

Bells has made note of her affluence, so a good monitored security system and trained protection dogs would not be unreasonable in her case.

Okay, so she gets an upgraded, monitored security system that auto-reports to a monitoring service, and a trained protection dog (a big German Shepherd).
Now, someone breaks in, kills the dog, and has his way with her, and is gone before the police ever arrive (consider Detroit, where the average police response time is over 55 minutes, for example). Would you still claim her "security measures were inadequate"?

You can reasonably expect whatever you want from society and its members, but you only get what actually results, which is why individuals are faced with making up that difference or not.

So, once again, you are holding the victim responsible for the criminals actions.

If the incidence of violent assault were high enough the average person might resort to such strategies for protection. If you care to broaden you prospective a little you may notice that there are places in the world that warrant such measures, but you and I likely don’t inhabit those locals and our assumed risk is proportionally much lower.

Wow...

I never said men can’t be raped or that men are not raped, my comment was directed at the significance of the classes of rape you cited.

Oh, okay - so when a man is raped by a woman, it isn't as significant as when a woman is raped by a man. Fair enough I guess - after all, we're just what, sperm repositories to you?

Let’s examined how actual rape statistics compare to your assertion that female on male and female on female rape are significant trends in overall rape occurrence.

From:
Bureau Justice Statistics
An Analysis of Data on Rape and Sexual Assault
Sex Offenses and Offenders


So women rapists account for approximately 1% of total rapes, and two in ten of their victims are male. Do you get it; women offenders are relatively insignificant when it comes to rape in the US.

Oh, okay. Then by your logic, because it happens less frequently, it is irrelevant, and we need not worry about it. A curious way to look at life.

Face it Capracus... you want to blame Bells and excuse the rapist; that is the central theme in your arguments in this thread, and it is simply disgusting... and I'm done seeing it continue. You are no longer welcome to post your twisted views in this thread.

 

[iceaura]

And if you consider asking a victim to access their ordeal for flaws in their risk prevention blaming the victim, then you’re a fool.

If you think anything less than as much paranoid and life-restricting "security" as one's money can buy is a "flaw", you have a serious thinking disorder.

Which you do, as illustrated here:

I would’ve compared it to being the no fault victim in an auto collision who may have compounded their injuries by not wearing seatbelts.

You even specified "no fault". My goodness.

I'm trying to set up, mentally, a car crash that would be analogous to a sexual assault. The closest I can come to is someone entertaining themselves by crashing a passing car, resulting in serious injury - let's try out the recommendations we see in this thread: were there sufficient airbags, corresponding to the victim's income? Was the car being driven carefully enough, at safe speeds? Has the driver taken a defensive driving course, learned proper skills to handle being crashed by some crazy person? Did the driver stay on well-lit, public streets with other cars at all times? Is the security code for the garage door opener encrypted? They don't really seem to fit the situation, somehow.

There is an interesting side track, here, concerning the suggestions the audienjce would have for a man who realizes he is vulnerable to rape in this culture. Guard dogs and fencing, always taking a buddy to a public restroom, one drink per evening, modest clothing, staying alert, watching his beer at all times, - - what else is on the table?

This is solely about the welfare and autonomy of the woman, and what makes sense to her. It's not about me, and it's certainly not about you and your paternalistic dogma. Let's give women the facts, and then let each individual decide what suits her best.

Which lets the men off the hook - as always, with that approach to "rape prevention". It's the individual woman's problem, apparently - the men are "the world", given, unchangeable and ungovernable. And as the facts are pretty obvious, and almost all women are familiar with them already, there's no real work to do - we've already handled the matter!

Meanwhile, there are strict curbs on what the woman is allowed to do, to "suit herself", aren't there. In particular, she is to remain individual, isolated, and without control over "the world". She is not even to discuss, among sympathetic fellow targets, the topic of changing male behavior in her society, by whatever means necessary.

"So has it crossed your mind, especially in light of the posts you have been reading here, that there is a very large void in the middle of that "three tiered" (what's the hierarchy?) approach as presented by you? - - - "
No.

Really? No clue at all? That explains a lot. The central subject of every one of my posts here is completely missing - and this is invisible to you.

Do you understand how the three-tier educational system works? Hint: it isn't hierarchy.

Anything with tiers has a hierarchy. The language reveals. Do you know what it is, or is that another of those invisible elephants in this room?

Fact is, the gaming culture has been infested with this kind of thing for decades.
You'll find, if you think about it a little more and look a little more closely, that is has very little to do with women.

So has the rest of the culture, and plenty of women are fed up with being told it has nothing to do with their being women. The recurrent, common, predictable, focused, sexually charged and sex specific, abuse of women by packs of free ranging and uncurbed young men has "little to do with women"? On what planet?

 

[cluelusshusbund]

"a woman who says no to her husband and he continues to manipulate her genitals and then enters her either with his penis or with his fingers or an object even after she has said no, and he keeps going until she climaxes.

That is rape.

I emagine the same aplies even if she dont climax... but im guessin that the majority of rapes occur by husbunds on ther wifes.!!!

So wifes need to understand that no means NO an quit alowin therselfs to be raped by ther husbunds... ie... if an atempted rape occurs leave the house immediately/as soon as posible.!!!

If the husbund gets help wit his prollem... shoud the wife consider the option to make a go of it agan... or shoud it be considered... "once a rapest always a rapest" an divorce him.???

 

[The Marquis]

...So has the rest of the culture, and plenty of women are fed up with being told it has nothing to do with their being women. The recurrent, common, predictable, focused, sexually charged and sex specific, abuse of women by packs of free ranging and uncurbed young men has "little to do with women"? On what planet?

This planet. Right here. It's not as if we're really settled on any others, you know.
Would you like a hand with a few more adjectives there, or do you think that's enough?

Here's a little clue:
Misogyny is a symptom, not a malady.

Are you suggesting that pointing out misogyny is misogynistic?
Considering this thread is about misogyny in general... I am sure you get my drift..

Is everything really that simple for you?
While I might get your drift, it's rather apparent you didn't get mine. Or that of anyone else who might have written about this "Rape Culture" thing pointing it out for what it is.

You know, not far back, you even had quick sniff at a part of the actual problem. Then you retreated into something a little more comfortable and familiar.

...because I had dared to say that the only person responsible for what happened to me is the man who raped me.

And once again, it's all about you. It has been for what, a dozen pages now? And you're still going.

Look really closely, Bells.
The state this thread is in now is due in no small part to the role you, Tiassa and the me-toos have played in it. You should perhaps consider that the incessant bullying you've chosen to engage in for the last couple of weeks might have been rather significant in derailing the train.

Do you think, at this point, you could remember what it was that Trooper actually wrote, way back in the beginning, at all? Or would you have to go back and look?
And If I were to ask you to write it down, right now, without going back to take a peep - how much do you think what you wrote would resemble the original?
Merely asking. I haven't even gone back to reread it myself. The undercurrents and by plays here are so much more interesting.

Tiassa has actually pointed out the role historical relationships and newer ones might have to play in such a thing, but only, I think, with relevance to my own contribution.
As usual, he seems to have missed the wider significance and assiduously avoided laying such a charge against those who present themselves as allies. Or not. I accuse him of being a Toohey at times, but to be quite honest I may be giving him too much credit. I really don't know.

Well, I'm off to go be sober and boring for a while. Not to mention perhaps getting a bit of fresh air.
I do enjoy meandering down the rabbit hole from time to time, but this time the Red Queen has a rather firm grip on things, and it might be time for me to climb back out for a while before I lose my head.

Adieu.

 

[tali89]

She is not even to discuss, among sympathetic fellow targets, the topic of changing male behavior in her society, by whatever means necessary.

By 'whatever means necessary'? I'm curious to know what 'means' you're thinking of, and how long they would take to implement? I can think of only two surefire ways to prevent rape from happening which targets men. One method would involve inventing technology similar to that seen in 'Minority Report', where police could see rapes before they happened. The other way would involve simply herding all men into camps and keeping them separate from women. Granted, only a tiny fraction of those men would have raped anyone, but at least you'd have a 100% success rate. I'm not counting male on male rape, since nobody really cares about that. They could just take preventative measures anyway, like not dropping the soap, right?

The problem with either of the above scenarios is that they would take at least some time to implement. In the mean time, shouldn't women be permitted to minimise their chances of being raped while you chase your pie in the sky fantasy? Why are you so selfish?

 

[GeoffP]

The fundamental miscomprehension - or avoidance, or whatever - of the thread recently is the distinction between responsibility and prudence. They address different conceptual conventions.

 

[Kittamaru]

GeoffP - while that is true, there is also a fine line between what is prudent and what is reasonable - case in point, many people live in areas where the local homeowners association (which, personally, are groups that I think should be disbanded, but meh) bars certain large-breed dogs... namely the ones best suited to being guard dogs (German Shepherds, Rotty's, etc)

 

[Bells]

Is everything really that simple for you?
While I might get your drift, it's rather apparent you didn't get mine. Or that of anyone else who might have written about this "Rape Culture" thing pointing it out for what it is.

You know, not far back, you even had quick sniff at a part of the actual problem. Then you retreated into something a little more comfortable and familiar.

Quit the booze and you might actually make some sense.

And once again, it's all about you. It has been for what, a dozen pages now? And you're still going.

Look really closely, Bells.

It became about me when one dolt decided to blame me for failing in my responsibilities in home security. Have a problem with that, take it up with him.

The state this thread is in now is due in no small part to the role you, Tiassa and the me-toos have played in it. You should perhaps consider that the incessant bullying you've chosen to engage in for the last couple of weeks might have been rather significant in derailing the train.

Bullying?

You mean having you, Trooper, Capracus and the other one magically appear and troll this thread is not tantamount to bullying? You mean the absolute refusal to consider what your ideology represents and what it actually does in reality is you not bullying? Are you seriously going to argue that the guy who just told me that I "failed" in my responsibilities because I apparently did not have better home security when someone broke into my home and raped me is not bullying?

Been drinking the turps again?

Do you think, at this point, you could remember what it was that Trooper actually wrote, way back in the beginning, at all? Or would you have to go back and look?
And If I were to ask you to write it down, right now, without going back to take a peep - how much do you think what you wrote would resemble the original?
Merely asking. I haven't even gone back to reread it myself. The undercurrents and by plays here are so much more interesting.

Oh I'm sorry. I disagreed with your little buddy.

I am well aware of what she was saying. Question is, are you?

Perhaps you should go back and have a look. Or are you of the camp that women should simply accept that they may be raped and just learn to deal with the condescending twats who try to remind them of how it is their responsibility to prevent the actions of others against them by altering their behaviour and how they live and all that goes inbetween?

As I have repeatedly stated, women aren't stupid and it is up to each individual to decide and do what is best for them without said twats imposing their own beliefs about how women should behave on the women around them. People complain about the paternalistic societies in parts of the world who demand women dress a certain way or behave a certain way? In the West it's called rape prevention. In Middle Eastern countries it's called making women remain chaste. Same shit, same smell. And I am fed up with misogynistic tools reminding me that it is apparently my role and job in life to not be raped and then to tell me that I bear responsibility when I am raped because my apparent affluence did not result in my having guard dogs roaming my backyard and god knows what else. These are the standards and expectations on women to not be raped. And then the cheek that I was in a better position for introspection about my failures and responsibilities, more so than the rapist because well, heaven forbid he feels pressured or the responsibility to not rape. Because how wrong is it to expect people to not rape. No, it is apparently better to expect all potential victims, ie all women, to alter their behaviour and live in fear for their whole lives because we are too cowardly to educate males and females that rape is bad. Notice that there is no expectation or rape prevention for men. Oh no. They get to escape that little doozy because it isn't the behaviour of men that rape apologists try to control. It is the behaviour of women.

And it is utter and absolute misogynistic bullshit. Not to mention dangerous ideology.

But of course, this is what you are defending.

Tiassa has actually pointed out the role historical relationships and newer ones might have to play in such a thing, but only, I think, with relevance to my own contribution.
As usual, he seems to have missed the wider significance and assiduously avoided laying such a charge against those who present themselves as allies. Or not. I accuse him of being a Toohey at times, but to be quite honest I may be giving him too much credit. I really don't know.

It is clear you do not know.

Well, I'm off to go be sober and boring for a while. Not to mention perhaps getting a bit of fresh air.
I do enjoy meandering down the rabbit hole from time to time, but this time the Red Queen has a rather firm grip on things, and it might be time for me to climb back out for a while before I lose my head.

Adieu.

Ya, you do that.

 

[Bells]

GeoffP - while that is true, there is also a fine line between what is prudent and what is reasonable - case in point, many people live in areas where the local homeowners association (which, personally, are groups that I think should be disbanded, but meh) bars certain large-breed dogs... namely the ones best suited to being guard dogs (German Shepherds, Rotty's, etc)

What is absolutely ridiculous is the expectation that women have to get better home security, to the point of suggesting guard dogs, and failure to do so means that we are responsible if we are raped in our own homes.

Seriously? It's come to this now?

What the hell kind of hellhole of fear are women meant to exist in to the point of absolute paranoia if we want to not be blamed for being raped? If prudence extends to having to get guard dogs, armed guards and bars on windows, then perhaps the focus should not be on women, but on rapists. Because if alarms, high walls and fences and security gates and doors and windows is not "prudent" enough and that I am somehow responsible because that wasn't enough, then really, rape apologists can go and jump off the highest cliff they can find.