Misogyny, Guns, Rape and Culture..

[Bells]

You are correct. This is a discussion.

Which begs the question of why you are trying to throw the thread and discussion off course by dredging up things that were discussed months ago and writing up your review when you could simply read it? The posts are there for people to read. We don't need a blow by blow account of it from you. We participated in the thread from the start. We know what was said and by whom. So please stop. It was suggested you read the thread if you want to know who said what. Not write up a page by page review of a 27 page long thread. You agree or disagree with what has been discussed? Great for you. But what you are doing now is disruptive as it is childish and this thread has seen enough of that already.

 

[Tiassa]

We don't need a blow by blow account of it from you. We participated in the thread from the start. We know what was said and by whom. So please stop. It was suggested you read the thread if you want to know who said what. Not write up a page by page review of a 27 page long thread. You agree or disagree

We must also acknowledge that our neighbor is attempting to shape the discussion by misrepresenting history. That's why he rephrases what everyone says instead of just listing it in the play-by-play review.

That is to say, he can't make whatever point he's trying to make without lying.

 

[GeoffP]

Page 3:

I am fairly certain your forefather's never intended your right to bear arms to entail causing terror and fear in the unarmed. And yet, this is now legal and a normal part of protesting in some parts of your country.

Er, no. Not a normal – as in, typical – part of protesting. I can believe there were a few incidents, but not a swathe of them. But, too, the bicycle helmet parallel doesn’t work. And there is no way in hell there are 88 guns per 100 people unless one is counting military and police arms. Why all the rhetoric? Is it really necessary? Is this the benefice of the social sciences: red-faced harrying and the loosening of ties to the facts? Please.

At post #44 the issue of misogyny is touched upon again. Shocking, although not gun-related per se.

Nothing really to critique here: women are relegated, as always, to the lowest economic stance that their society can possibly arrange. ** cough - communism? - Cough ** Well, actually, is the bogeyman capitalism or ‘human nature’? (A tricky term on SF these days.) Or is it just the expression of whatever power those in power can arrange? A lot of overlap on those Venn diagrams, to be sure.

And Fraggle, N. Am did host many societies before European settlers arrived. Not very technological ones, but I think we’ve all played Civilisation. The correlations between gun rights and women’s rights appear to depend on society; this would be a sort of general counter to the sort of general hypothesis that women’s rights correlate negatively with gun liberties (#53). The standpoint of history cannot be ignored. Even so, correlation within certain societies is reason enough for action. Global consistency is irrelevant.

Oh, and there’s the Catholic controversy. We’ve been over that, and why it’s inappropriate, and the fallacies of the response. Onward – but just to reiterate: misogynist is not synonymous with Catholic, much as extremist is not synonymous with Muslim. Just a refresher.

 

[Bells]

Back on topic..

Real rape vs ummmm women who are raped for attention..

George Will is at it again..

Speaking to Miami University students in Oxford, Ohio, on Wednesday night, conservative political commentator George Will said that he supports helping those who are "real survivors of real rape," according to a student questioner who asked him about his position on the subject.

The Pulitzer Prize-winning columnist was paid $48,000 through a private donation to speak at Miami, a few months after he inflamed sexual assault survivors, U.S. senators and many students by suggesting that being a rape victim on campus was a "coveted status." Will has stood by his comments about sexual assault, suggesting that widely cited research on the issue is incorrect.

One sexual assault survivor who attended Will's speech spoke anonymously with local NBC station WLWT about a question she put to Will about the cost of treating rape.

"He replied in a series of non-finished sentences at which point I said, 'I have specifically received treatment and is it worth it?' and he said, 'Yes, it is, but only for real survivors of real rape,' and it was very diminishing and deterring my ability to talk about it," the survivor told WLWT.

Will did not immediately respond to The Huffington Post's request for comment.

Cameras were not allowed during the Q&A portion, according to WXIX, but other attendees also noted on Twitter similar remarks Will made during the speech..

Another news site had a more in-depth quotes about what he said..

A female student challenged Will on his June column that drew national attention claiming it trivialized the issue of such assaults.

In the column, the Pulitzer-prize winning commentator and television news analyst contended that the newly created statistical categories cited for college campus assaults were inflated and lacked credibility as reasoning for expanded U.S. Department of Education definitions on what constituted a sexual assault.

In response to the student Will said many have misconstrued the points in his column but acknowledged the controversy, saying "I've written columns since 1973, but the one you are talking about has certainly gotten the attention of this campus."

In response, Will defended his column and criticized "the dubious sociology" of ill-defined federal definitions of sexual assault that he contends diminishes the legal rights of the overwhelmingly male defendants assumed "guilty until proven innocent" under the new laws.

Another female questioner claimed he was overly sympathetic to those who sexually attack women on campus and ignorant of the importance of treatment for those who suffer post-traumatic stress from such assaults.

Will responded by saying "I've never said anything remotely like what you have proscribed to me."

He went on to endorse post-traumatic stress treatment.

"Real victims of real sexual assaults should have policies public and private that take care of that," Will said.

Real rape victims..

How is this man still current and how could he be offered so much money to speak at universities, especially in light of the fact that sexual assault on campuses is such an ongoing problem? The $48,000 he was offered would have been better spent providing counseling to rape and sexual assault victims.

 

[GeoffP]

We must also acknowledge that our neighbor is attempting to shape the discussion by misrepresenting history. That's why he rephrases what everyone says instead of just listing it in the play-by-play review.

Your suggestion is to, in review of the thread, to repost the thread. I see.

That is to say, he can't make whatever point he's trying to make without lying.

Ha! That was a good one. I invite the use of your eyes; they must be starving for a flap at something logical by this point.

I know you won't track this, but there's really no ulterior objective save a fair appraisal of what I have been accused of not fairly appraising.

 

[GeoffP]

Reported a PM. Ah well.

Page 4 of the… “Grand Lying Tour”? Fear is the mindkiller.

Billvon not looking like the devil so far… hmm.



Page 5: “Catholicism” = “misogyny” but one should more tamely “Ask Muslims about the unresolved issues troubling the sex segregation justified by assertions of Islamic law occurring in many communities”. “Islam” =/= “misogyny” then, or perhaps just more quietly. Mm.

Pounding some sand… classic. And there’s the paranoia about “fishing for information” on a mod: classically, beautifully deranged. I remember that bit of insanity. It’s amazing the things you forget, and that was way the hell out there. You never see the best magic tricks coming, and that mod had me completely astounded on that one. Bra-vo.

More to the point: another contradiction of the overlying thesis regarding misogyny and guns: American Leftist Catholics, apparently. (The most I ever heard of them were the Marxist Jesuits that used to lurk in Central America… had to respect that lot.) That being said, there is still a strong thread of continuity through the expression of misogyny, society to society, and the role of tools such as guns therein. Come to that, a meme is a tool as well, and if leftist Catholics are limiting birth controls in the US, then there would be an argument for considering that a didactic kind of “tool”. (Any lateral puns inferred from that are the problem of the reader.)

Wellwisher… well and truly out in rightwing madland. “It would be different if rapist could only go after the exact woman who wronged him but nobody else.” Jesus, seriously?

More corrections. Never ends.

And back to the cops at post #93. Again: not a shocker. Police forces are – IMHO – the last refuge of the ignorant, the abuser, the sadist. Here’s an interesting discussion I had with a cop: the neighbour’s alarm went off and the cops were terrified of their dog, who was in the back, barking. They knock on our door; I tell them “Well, she’s noisy, but not violent. I don’t think she’d bother you. But if you’re nervous, I could go calm her, it’s no bother.” Cop #1 reports into his shoulder radio: “What? No, that was just the neighbour, trying to goad us into going in there with the dog.” I think I said to his partner “Wow. He’s a hurting unit, pal,” (an old army slag for a fuckup) and shut the door in their faces.

Now, that was stupid. He could have had me arrested on any charge he could imaginatively scribble into a box. The police force is composed of the not normal. Maybe his embarrassment saved me a lot of trouble. But there it is, again: mental bullies and sociopaths. As a small symptomatic, you need to change either i) your society or ii) your police recruit population. And I can’t imagine why non-cunts are not joining up, at the salaries these fucks make. They make a shitload. America has no one of decent character left? Maybe one of the pharmadynasties could switch out their guns for water pistols filled with Prozac. Especially in Ferguson, South Fuckolina. And maybe they could just suck on a barrel when their lil’ hearts get broken by big mean homeowners. Is it training? You can’t cure “asshole” with training. Police culture, football culture: same, same.

 

[James R]

It looks like it might be time to close this thread, too. If all that is happening is that it is being "reviewed", then it seems it has gone full circle.

All in favour of closure say Aye.

 

[pjdude1219]

AYE

 

[Bells]

It is always sad when threads descend into this level of madness that it results in the thread being closed. This thread can no longer be salvaged, no matter how many times we tried to salvage it.

I had hoped this thread would have served a purpose to discuss an issue that plagues virtually half of the human population on this planet. What a shame that it was used to spread more misogyny.

While there will be further threads on this topic in the future, since the issue is so pervasive and affects so many people in so many different ways, I can only hope the participants in this thread have learned that there are some things that are acceptable in public discourse and others that are not acceptable.

I also request that the thread be closed.

 

[James R]

All things considered, I have decided to close this thread. It seems that both sides of the topic have been amply canvassed here. What remains are mostly personal accusations, which don't do much to advance the discussion.