So you want to compare a 12 week period of societal regulation of a 39 week voluntary ordeal to a lifetime of involuntary servitude? A woman is born free and ends up with potentially the same freedom after this period as she did before it. Both the fetus and the slave originate in bondage, and are either freed by their master or die in captivity. Society does not compel women to become pregnant; they have the ability to prevent it, and within reason to lawfully escape it if desired.But the whole thing is moot, because you have your analogy inverted in the first place - the woman corresponds to the slave, obviously and directly, since her right of bodily integrity and self defense is being abrogated in the interests of other people.
It's not working for you, either.
That was in response to survival. And uh, well, ya, when your dead your dead. EPIC FAIL!
Would you kindly respond to my last post here and let me know what additionally I should be doing, as a man, to reduce rape?
If you never raped anyone, you as a man don't have to change anything, since you are doing well in terms of the conditions of justice. The problem is females seem to be under the spell of a stereo-type, where they irrationally assume one size fits all and a clean record still counts as liability. Unless you are a therapist you may not be able to deal with this detachment from cause and effect.
Women have a lot of insecurities and men, like those in the democratic party, know how to exploit this. The republican women don't have the same level of insecurity since these men don't exploit it as often. If you get women worked up with underlying insecurities, in ways that brings all their other insecurities to the party, men are required to lie and accept responsibility for that which they did not do. This is not healthy for men, since you sacrifice your common sense, for a quick fix to make the nagging stop.
Women have a lot of insecurities and men, like those in the democratic party, know how to exploit this.
The republican women don't have the same level of insecurity since these men don't exploit it as often.
I never done any of these things, like rape, so I am clean in terms of reality and justice. But reality is not enough to appease the insecurities which feminists extrapolate and projection onto me and the vast majority of innocent men. This may be why women were not allowed to vote, for many years, since appeasement of female insecurity becomes wasteful and often makes the problem worse. Rape appears to be increasing and not decreasing since innocent men have been force to appease due to false stereo types.
Bells said:I know of the insanity defense and I also know of it as it applies to Australian law. Remember, we have a different legal system here in Australia.
Bells said:Well gee, Trooper. Alcohol affects everyone differently. To demand that women not drink like men is hysterically short sighted and downright silly. I know women who could down a bottle of whiskey and not even slur their words and I know men who have one glass of wine and they are plastered off their nut. So please explain, how does one drink like a man? Unless of course you mean how it affects one's moods, where researches have found that alcohol has a tendency to affect men's moods by making them more angry and women more emotional?
Bells said:Tell me, how and why do you think restricting women's movements, behaviour and actions under the umbrella of rape prevention, not infringing on her freedoms?
Kittamaru said:Would you kindly respond to my last post here and let me know what additionally I should be doing, as a man, to reduce rape?
Bystander intervention is vital but first you have to feel that the person is deserving of help. Don’t assume that it’s someone else’s responsibility. If everyone assumes this, nobody will intervene.
I wish I knew. I can't understand why people act like that.Why is that, Kitt?
Your empathy is enhanced when you’re able to identify with the person in need. Can you identify yourself with a female? Are we in your "group" or are we merely potential sex partners?
Mansplain bromance for me, will you, Kitt? Can we really be just friends or is this platonic coexistence merely a facade?
What’s it like to be a woman, Kitt, do you know? Do you want to know? Why not register as a woman. Post a picture on an online dating site, or better yet… a science forum.
You would be incorrect.No, actually you didn’t. You didn’t know anything about it, and as I previously pointed out, your insanity defense is very similar to ours.
If you want to use your credentials or personal information to support your position, be prepared to back it up with proof.
I see you did not read the article or what I actually said again?Wow, women are more emotional than men, eh? You do realize that anger is an emotion, right, Bells?
“Women achieve higher concentrations of alcohol in the blood and become more impaired than men after drinking equivalent amounts of alcohol.”
http://pubs.niaaa.nih.gov/publications/aa46.htm
The number of drinks consumed is a very poor measure of intoxication largely because of variation in physiology and individual alcohol tolerance.
There is much variation according to:
Neither BAC, nor the number of drinks consumed, are necessarily accurate indicators of the level of impairment. Tolerance to alcohol also varies from one person to another, and can be affected by such factors as genetics, adaptation to chronic alcohol use, and synergistic effects of drugs.
- body weight
- sex
- body fat percentage even between gender
http://oade.nd.edu/educate-yourself-alcohol/blood-alcohol-concentration/
Individual reactions to alcohol vary, and are influenced by many factors; such as:
http://www.cdc.gov/alcohol/faqs.htm#howAlcoholAffect
- Age.
- Gender.
- Race or ethnicity.
- Physical condition (weight, fitness level, etc).
- Amount of food consumed before drinking.
- How quickly the alcohol was consumed.
- Use of drugs or prescription medicines.
- Family history of alcohol problems.
I never said such a thing. This level of dishonesty really is becoming a problem, isn't it?Tell me, how and why you think that drinking is not associated with the outcomes of sexual assaults.
Now, tell me why you think that sex is the one thing that no man will ever use violence to attain.
Bells said:I never said such a thing. This level of dishonesty really is becoming a problem, isn't it?
Tali89 said:From what I can understand so far, it appears that some posters believe that one should not engage in any form of behaviour that reduces the risk of harm to oneself. Is this correct?
Yes, if you’re a woman.tali89 said:Before I comment in this thread, can I clarify one thing? From what I can understand so far, it appears that some posters believe that one should not engage in any form of behaviour that reduces the risk of harm to oneself. Is this correct?
Bells said:I never said such a thing. This level of dishonesty really is becoming a problem, isn't it?
Bells said:Just keep in mind that in The Better Angels of our Nature: Why Violence has Declined, Pinker also argues for women to take measures for rape prevention - such as how they dress, drink, who they are with, etc.
http://www.sciforums.com/threads/th...dice-and-necessity.141802/page-6#post-3199526
In the last few years, there has been an unfortunate trend towards blaming “rape culture” for the extensive problem of sexual violence on campuses. While it is helpful to point out the systemic barriers to addressing the problem, it is important to not lose sight of a simple fact: Rape is caused not by cultural factors but by the conscious decisions, of a small percentage of the community, to commit a violent crime.
While that may seem an obvious point, it has tended to get lost in recent debates. This has led to an inclination to focus on particular segments of the student population (e.g., athletes), particular aspects of campus culture (e.g., the Greek system), or traits that are common in many millions of law-abiding Americans (e.g., “masculinity”), rather than on the subpopulation at fault: those who choose to commit rape. This trend has the paradoxical effect of making it harder to stop sexual violence, since it removes the focus from the individual at fault, and seemingly mitigates personal responsibility for his or her own actions.
By the time they reach college, most students have been exposed to 18 years of prevention messages, in one form or another. Thanks to repeated messages from parents, religious leaders, teachers, coaches, the media and, yes, the culture at large, the overwhelming majority of these young adults have learned right from wrong, and enter college knowing that rape falls squarely in the latter category.
As anyone who has worked on rape prevention knows, risk-reduction messaging is a sensitive topic. Even the most well-intentioned risk-reduction message can be misunderstood to suggest that, by not following the tips, a victim is somehow to blame for his or her own attack. Recent survivors of sexual violence are particularly sensitive to these messages, and we owe it to them to use them cautiously.
Still, they are an important part of a rape prevention program. To be very clear, RAINN in no way condones or advocates victim blaming. Sexual assault is a violent crime and those who commit these crimes are solely responsible for their actions. That said, we believe that it is important to educate members of a campus community on actions they can take to increase their personal safety. In fact, we believe it’s irresponsible not to do so.
https://rainn.org/images/03-2014/WH-Task-Force-RAINN-Recommendations.pdf
Bells said:I have never said rape was about sex or about a need to satisfy one's sexual urge. I have always argued that rape is about power and dominance.
Of course not. It's your damn stupid analogy, remember?capracus said:But the whole thing is moot, because you have your analogy inverted in the first place - the woman corresponds to the slave, obviously and directly, since her right of bodily integrity and self defense is being abrogated in the interests of other people.
So you want to compare a 12 week period of societal regulation of a 39 week voluntary ordeal to a lifetime of involuntary servitude?
No, that's wrong, dumb, and trollish.Before I comment in this thread, can I clarify one thing? From what I can understand so far, it appears that some posters believe that one should not engage in any form of behaviour that reduces the risk of harm to oneself. Is this correct?
So the differences between his statement and theirs are not significant, including contextual meaning?trooper said:He never said that the victim was somehow to blame. He made the same statement that the Rape Abuse National Network made. "We believe that it is important to educate members of a campus community on actions they can take to increase their personal safety. In fact, we believe it’s irresponsible not to do so."
Say what?trooper said:Now, tell me why you think that sex is the one thing that no man will ever use violence to attain.
So the differences between his statement and theirs are not significant, including contextual meaning?
OK: now we are calling rape victims "irresponsible" if they don't govern every minute of their daily lives according to a list formulated by what appear to be prudish and misogynistic patriarchs. That's not "blame" - how could anyone interpret "irresponsible" as a term of blame? - but "prevention". And it doesn't restrict women's freedoms at all - it's benevolent advice, justified on the grounds that if taken it will reduce rape by some unspecified degree, and anything that reduces rape by any degree increases women's freedoms - by definition, apparently, despite the caveat earlier. That's your position.
Trooper said:Do I agree with the nation's largest anti-sexual assault organization? Yep!
That is of course irrelevant to my post. Why are you attempting to deflect my post? To remind you: The question, admittedly rhetorical (your answer plainly "yes") was "So the differences between his statements and theirs are not significant, including contextual meaning?" .trooper said:Yes, RAINN felt it would be irresponsible to not provide education on actions they can take to increase their personal safety.
Do I agree with the nation's largest anti-sexual assault organization? Yep!
No, it hasn't. And it should. Would that it get lost in every debate in which it is beside the point. Like this one.trooper said:While that may seem an obvious point, it has tended to get lost in recent debates.
Not so. In the first and most significant place, a need to focus on the socially inculcated "traits" common to "masculinity" that lead to rape in this culture is the issue you are dodging here. That focus is not happening, and therein lies a serious obstacle to effective rape prevention.trooper said:This has led to an inclination to focus on particular segments of the student population (e.g., athletes), particular aspects of campus culture (e.g., the Greek system), or traits that are common in many millions of law-abiding Americans (e.g., “masculinity”), rather than on the subpopulation at fault: those who choose to commit rape.
WTF? How are conscious decisions by a subpopulation harbored within a given community supposed to be addressed without their context of "cultural factors"?trooper said:Rape is caused not by cultural factors but by the conscious decisions, of a small percentage of the community, to commit a violent crime.
Is it true that an overwhelming majority of young men in all subpopulations entering college - enough to dominate any subpopulation's (such as athletes) culture in a given college - have learned to recognize rape and collectively as well as personally abhor it, reflexively avoid it ? Evidence, please.By the time they reach college, most students have been exposed to 18 years of prevention messages, in one form or another. Thanks to repeated messages from parents, religious leaders, teachers, coaches, the media and, yes, the culture at large, the overwhelming majority of these young adults have learned right from wrong, and enter college knowing that rape falls squarely in the latter category.
Good for them. But what RAINN claims not to condone or advocate is beside the point at issue here.Still, they are an important part of a rape prevention program. To be very clear, RAINN in no way condones or advocates victim blaming.
. . . you may see what is wrong with your model of "rape prevention" via institutionally assigning responsibility to potential victims: it leads to courtrooms dominated by lawyers defending rapists by talking like you, it leads to public blaming of identified victims and cowing of unidentified, and it leads to restriction of potential victims's rights and freedoms and lives, and it leads to culturally institutionalized oppression of (especially) women including abetted rape in appropriate forms, in any society organized accordingly. This is not theoretical - we are surrounded by examples. Saudi Arabia was introduced earlier as sufficiently alien and distant to discuss reasonably, and ignored - redux?
Iceaura said:In the first and most significant place, a need to focus on the socially inculcated "traits" common to "masculinity" that lead to rape in this culture is the issue you are dodging here. That focus is not happening, and therein lies a serious obstacle to effective rape prevention.
WTF? How are conscious decisions by a subpopulation harbored within a given community supposed to be addressed without their context of "cultural factors"?