There are no miracles.
Miracle is possible
- Thread starter Saint
- Start date
How do you know this is true, without referring to the bible.
You've completely missed the point. Origin was saying that if Jesus exists as god because someone's life is saved from accepting Jesus, then why can't it true for all possible gods such as the Islamic god?
God created the existence of everything... assumption.
Laws and complexity of nature points to a designer... assumption.
And even if these false assumptions were true, how do you know it's your god? Again, without referring to the tale you call the bible.
Saint
Valued Senior Member
I have my PhD in mechanical engineering, I study science and technology until today.
Don't scorn at Assumption.
What ever theories of science, majority are made on Assumption, started with hypotheses.
And there are many assumptions made in solving engineering problems,
ignoring the weight, assume it is rigid body, ignoring the friction etc......
Science and Engineering is never Precise 100%.
Therefore you don't scorn at Religion, saying that its belief is Assumption.
Don't scorn at Assumption.
What ever theories of science, majority are made on Assumption, started with hypotheses.
And there are many assumptions made in solving engineering problems,
ignoring the weight, assume it is rigid body, ignoring the friction etc......
Science and Engineering is never Precise 100%.
Therefore you don't scorn at Religion, saying that its belief is Assumption.
So you do admit they're assumptions. The difference between assuming the weight of an object in an engineering problem and assuming that god created everything is that there's reason behind the former, but not the latter.
You can assume anything without reasoning. Now tell me, what is the reasoning behind 'god created everything'?
Saint
Valued Senior Member
God created the universe is not an Assumption.
It is his revelation to human, written down on the Bible through his prophets,
and in addition to that, God shows his influence on people who believe in him through many things like miracles, change of life etc.
Many people experience the fill of Holy Ghost and testify.
Of course, other religions also have similar stories to tell you, it is the grace of God to give human's free will to do what they can do.
But specifically, to be saved and have eternal life, God provides the only way through Jesus Christ.
It is his revelation to human, written down on the Bible through his prophets,
and in addition to that, God shows his influence on people who believe in him through many things like miracles, change of life etc.
Many people experience the fill of Holy Ghost and testify.
Of course, other religions also have similar stories to tell you, it is the grace of God to give human's free will to do what they can do.
But specifically, to be saved and have eternal life, God provides the only way through Jesus Christ.
What "Saint" is getting at is that "other universes" as posited by many modern physicists would logically conceivably have other laws of nature which if compared with our laws of nature would appear to be supernatural -- i.e., miracles.
After all, if "multiple universes" are conceivable, surely "other laws" are too.
The only problem would be to explain how those other laws from another universe could become present within our universe such that humans could witness the comparison/contrast.
I can think of two miracles off the top of my head:
1) When my mother-in-law admits she is wrong.
2) When one (just one) politically correct multi-culturalist sees (after a mountain of data has impinged on his Box for years) that Islam is an evil and dangerous geopolitical ideology.
Oh? Do you have examples?
I disagree. Being able to conceive of something doesn't make it possible; however, if other universes exist with other laws then those things are well... laws. A miracle would be an outright violation of those laws (ex. an emputee spontaneously gains back a lost limb, a severely retarded human spontaneously gains normal or higher human social and cognitive ability, or the statue of liberty spontaenously turns into solid diamond).
I don't agree that it is the only problem.
I visited my country of birth. Because of obedience to the Holy Spirit .
I am alive here and relatively prosperous , in comparison to my practically extinct family, killed and died of alcoholism in my land of birth,
It is a miracle
a miracle can be just a simple end run around the odds..
IE..the coma patient who suddenly wakes up,
the priest who does not violate young boys..
eekthe atheist who finally admits there is a God..
the SciForum user who changes his opinion..
why does God have to violate natural laws?
he created the system,why would he create something he couldn't work in?
It's fortunate, but no miracle.
That's what I'm saying. Something that is simply unlikely is not a miracle, since this would discount everyone and everything that doesn't beat the odds. Unlikely things happen. This is a completely secular idea.a miracle can be just a simple end run around the odds..
IE..the coma patient who suddenly wakes up,
the priest who does not violate young boys..
the atheist who finally admits there is a God..
the SciForum user who changes his opinion..
why does God have to violate natural laws?
he created the system,why would he create something he couldn't work in?
How bout Me stating there would be a spiral and then it happening yesterday . That was pretty miraculous for Me . Course it could have all been a coinkidink . Like when I said Islam needed to learn there are more way to god than just Islam and Chi fought Me about it so I told Him I would have to teach him a lesson and then in no time at all , need I say who got shot in the head . Lets not talk about the black swan . That is to much to face. It is not my fault . I don't choose . The earth chooses. Electo-Magnetic pulses would be my guess . Like farm animals feeling equal potential planes . That is pretty miraculous if you ask Me. I felt several of the pulses yesterday . Like waves . Little power surges . In succession. Like a rhythm with exact intervals . I don't know what they were , but I could feel them . It swayed Me body ever so slightly . I though maybe it was cosmic radiation . It lasted maybe 30 seconds or a bit more . I feel like I took something on when it happened . Like a support group happened some were in the world . I don't know it was strange . Hallucination possibly . Can't say for sure ? Do people that hallucinate know there hallucinating ? I don't think I was ?
the underlying question is 'is God supernatural or natural?'
IOW why does a miracle have to be supernatural to be a miracle?
<i noticed you did not disagree about sciforums users..
>
If it's natural, then it's not god by definition. Naturalistic processes can be understood.
understood by whom?
..that still does not discount God.
again i argue, why would God create a system that he could not work with?
does God use a hammer to influence things?
i think he tends to be more subtle than that..
There could be a god that doesn't interact with the world, but it's not the Christian one.
Insert deity here
Registered Member
Ya I wonder what makes God want to take some action in our world. What attributes need to be present for God to intervene in saving/helping one person while ignoring thousands of others.Perhaps performing one miracle is too much for the lad. :zzz: