Mind is the "fifth" dimension
- Thread starter wesmorris
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Lord_Tigersloth
Registered Senior Member
Well, most of this has flown over my head because i have skim read. An interesting idea about harmonics, but by immortality, do you in fact mean immortality? Or extended life due to the lifting of 'darkness'?
I had this thought once, that somehow there is another dimension in the mind. Later i thought it more accurate to say that in order to travel in a fifth dimension would be with the mind, meaning you don't take a step to any direction, but you change perception with your mind, and that way travel in other dimensions. Of course u could say that you don't move in a dimension, but the mind is only playing tricks on you, but if you truly went to a paralell three dimensional space, how else would it be percieved?
What I suppose I'm trying to get at is probably weak I suppose, but it's as follows: What is a dimension in terms of space? It's a degree of freedom. We commonly refer the universe as having four of them (sans string theory, etc.). I do not believe the ability to conceive this could occur within the four typical dimensions. Thought, or mind, or spirit or whatever you want to call it is a dimension INWARD, a degree of freedom that allows one to contemplate whatever one fancies. If there were no "dimension of thought" so to speak, conscious beings would be outside of the scope of possibility for the universe. Thoughts?
Xander Max
Registered Member
What you guys are saying is very interesting in it's own way. But wrap your brain around this one...
You speak of dimensions as varying levels of freedom, interesting, I believe dimensions to be varying level of existence. Not my existance, but the existance of the universe. Just as with the infinite possible futures depending on choices and actions made in the present, there are infinite layers of existence layed on-top-of, beside, below etc. of our dimension. This is how ghosts and other such supernatural phenomina can be explained. It is a narrowing of the gap between different dimensions. Just as the universe is a 3D spherical object, so too is existence. This is where it gets difficult to deal with. Time, as you were debating earlier is linear, two dimensional, straight and flat as if it were a road we were traveling along. But the Human concept of time is a device to measure the 4th dimension. W=d/t right? It's all so 2D, we need to start thinking of things in a more 3D, if not 4D perspective. It all becomes much easier to accept. But the first thing you have to acknowledge is that the Human concept of time is a device for measure of the 4th dimensional distance between two instances of existence. As in what happend this morning and what happened just now are 3 hours apart just as Toronto is 786km from Ottawa. Time is a measurment. When you can think of it like that you can better undstand the relationship between dimensions. Energy for example, by removing energy, be it translational, rotational or vibrational from sub-molecular particles a slowing occours. Therefore the less energy, the greater the difference between my interaction with time and that of the energy reduced particles. Inversly, the more energy the faster the movement. Which leads one to believe that the popular idea of traveling at greater than light speed would cause one to experience no passing of time, is backwards. The closer to the speed of light, the faster the affect of time would be. Traveling at the speed of light we could live entire generations in a blink of my eye at this level of interaction with time. Going with that train of thought it becomes concievable to believe in God. Is it so hard to believe that god is a creature whos' interaction with time is so great, "he" is infinatly old and moves too fast for us to detect with our senses and tools? When you start thinking of time as a measure of distance between two points, a great many things become not only possible, but logical. Thoughts?
You speak of dimensions as varying levels of freedom, interesting, I believe dimensions to be varying level of existence. Not my existance, but the existance of the universe. Just as with the infinite possible futures depending on choices and actions made in the present, there are infinite layers of existence layed on-top-of, beside, below etc. of our dimension. This is how ghosts and other such supernatural phenomina can be explained. It is a narrowing of the gap between different dimensions. Just as the universe is a 3D spherical object, so too is existence. This is where it gets difficult to deal with. Time, as you were debating earlier is linear, two dimensional, straight and flat as if it were a road we were traveling along. But the Human concept of time is a device to measure the 4th dimension. W=d/t right? It's all so 2D, we need to start thinking of things in a more 3D, if not 4D perspective. It all becomes much easier to accept. But the first thing you have to acknowledge is that the Human concept of time is a device for measure of the 4th dimensional distance between two instances of existence. As in what happend this morning and what happened just now are 3 hours apart just as Toronto is 786km from Ottawa. Time is a measurment. When you can think of it like that you can better undstand the relationship between dimensions. Energy for example, by removing energy, be it translational, rotational or vibrational from sub-molecular particles a slowing occours. Therefore the less energy, the greater the difference between my interaction with time and that of the energy reduced particles. Inversly, the more energy the faster the movement. Which leads one to believe that the popular idea of traveling at greater than light speed would cause one to experience no passing of time, is backwards. The closer to the speed of light, the faster the affect of time would be. Traveling at the speed of light we could live entire generations in a blink of my eye at this level of interaction with time. Going with that train of thought it becomes concievable to believe in God. Is it so hard to believe that god is a creature whos' interaction with time is so great, "he" is infinatly old and moves too fast for us to detect with our senses and tools? When you start thinking of time as a measure of distance between two points, a great many things become not only possible, but logical. Thoughts?
kmguru
Staff member
Thoughts?
Sounds interesting observing from in a 3D world....
How about...
What if the other dimension is a slice of another 3D world separated by a very small distance in the 4th dimension? I wonder how a hypercube of 4 dimensions would look if the 4th one is two atoms wide?
Sounds interesting observing from in a 3D world....
How about...
What if the other dimension is a slice of another 3D world separated by a very small distance in the 4th dimension? I wonder how a hypercube of 4 dimensions would look if the 4th one is two atoms wide?
I suppose my entire point is that the mind is the only way to access the abstract... it can mingle with the abstract.. but the abstract has no physical existence. If so.. is that not implicative of a "degree of freedom" not accounted for in the standard view of physics, etc?
Hell maybe I'm on crack.
Hell maybe I'm on crack.
davewhite04
Valued Senior Member
That is quite an interesting theory, one which does make sense in a round about way. My question is this; have we yet revealed how many dimensions are possible? Also I have heard that this dimension is constantly interacting with others, what are your thougts upon this?
Oh yeah before I forget anyone ever read Timeline?
Oh yeah before I forget anyone ever read Timeline?
AvatarOfWoe
Registered Senior Member
Timeline is an excelent book.
i justy have one question. if every dimension adds a new way to plot a point in space and gives a new dimension to an object, how would the mind and this new way to plot a point and this new dimension to objects?
just wondering.
i justy have one question. if every dimension adds a new way to plot a point in space and gives a new dimension to an object, how would the mind and this new way to plot a point and this new dimension to objects?
just wondering.
The mind is not a dimension, it is only a collection of cells that interact using chemicals. It seems like an alternate dimension to us because it is so complex. Imagine this: You have someone so smart that they can predict everything that will happen in the immediate future. They can do trig in their head and calculate the velocity of any moving thing. They are so smart they know exactly what you are thinking and what you are going to do next. But what if what you are going to do next is kill them? Are they hopelessly lost because that is their 'fate'? The answer is no, because to truly know the future, you need to know what you are going to do next as well. A computer of infinite storage space may be able to store all the data in the universe except it's own data. Because in order to hold it's own data, it must also hold the data of the data. And then it must hold it's own data. Etc. So someone else may be able to tell you what you will think next, but you can't tell yourself. That was pointless and completly off topic. I shall now die.
The mind (as in the implementation of consciousness) is the only place in which meaning exists (or can exist). Though the cells you mention do house the mind, how can you say they are all that it is? For instance you show me the cells and I'll ask "where is the meaning in there"? How do you get it out? It is for this reason that I suspect that the "mind" exists in another dimension or rather that its existence directly implies a degree of freedom which is not accounted for in space-time.
That's an excellent question. My answer for now would be: Subjectively. I realize that throws a wrench in the common interpretation of plotting points but I still think it's the right answer.
In other words, your point is plotted relative to your abstraction of the physical world around you. I would hypothesize this to be the nature of "inward" space.
dimensions
Wes, this is a very interesting topic. You seem to be trying to describe the functioning of consciousness in degrees of freedom rather than the traditional physical dimensions.
I believe the Buddhists have spent time breaking down the levels of consciousness in a manner similar to yours. IIRC, the lowest level of consciousness is "being aware". From awareness springs emotion, and then thought, reflection, intention, etc. based on reception of input through bodily senses from our universe. Some science hypotheses also support the possibility that time may emerge from the consciousness as a perception rather than as another actual dimension alongside the three physical dimensions.
I think it is interesting to contemplate the possibility of the consciousness as independent but connected with the three physical dimensions. The consciousness doesn't exhibit any of the characteristics of the three physical dimensions. Everything within our 3d universe is predictable according to the laws of physics or at least statistically predictable except consciousness. All purely physical matter is absolutely governed by physical cause and effect but does not initiate cause and effect. Unlike anything else within our universe, consciousness has the ability to initiate cause and effect. Consciousness also has self awareness, emotions, thoughts, contemplation and intention. These qualities are not demonstrated in any manner by purely 3d matter lacking consciousness.
The qualities of consciousness simply don't fit into a 3d physical universe.
So does the consciousness physically reside in a 4th or higher dimension with the remainder of the body in 3 dimensions? A 3d body and 3d senses would not be able to perceive a 4th or higher dimension. Yet a consciousness in the 4th or higher dimension would be able to interact with a 3d universe and 3d brain. It seems like it could be possible.
Our universe at its most basic level seems to consist of nothing more than intersecting fields of information. As the fields intersect information is altered and transferred. Our bodily senses rout this input of information to our brain and then consciousness. The consciousness internally produces the universe we perceive. It produces a universe with solidity, space, dimensions, colors and smells which is a beautiful representation of what is actually a vast empty space composed of nothing but information fields.
But to the point, the 3 dimensional space we perceive from information fields is created by our consciousness. Everything we measure with our experiments is filtered through a consciousness which can only create 3 dimensional perception. The universe could be composed of an infinity of dimensions but if our consciousness can only construct three, we would only see the 3 dimensions rather than the infinity. And if the universe is actually only crisscrossing fields of information, do we even have 3 physical dimensions at all. Perhaps we just have an artificial perception of 3 physical dimensions within a reality of anything from zero dimensions to an infinity of dimensions.
But consciousness has to be real because we are self aware. So we know we have at least one "real" dimension allowing for the existence of consciousness. We know there is linkage between consciousness and the perceived universe or we wouldn't experience it. Although considering the qualities demonstrated by a consciousness, it seems likely that consciousness is not an inherent component of the perceived 3 dimensional physical universe. So it seems likely the consciousness does exist within its own dimension separate from the perceived 3d universe.
Wes, this is a very interesting topic. You seem to be trying to describe the functioning of consciousness in degrees of freedom rather than the traditional physical dimensions.
I believe the Buddhists have spent time breaking down the levels of consciousness in a manner similar to yours. IIRC, the lowest level of consciousness is "being aware". From awareness springs emotion, and then thought, reflection, intention, etc. based on reception of input through bodily senses from our universe. Some science hypotheses also support the possibility that time may emerge from the consciousness as a perception rather than as another actual dimension alongside the three physical dimensions.
I think it is interesting to contemplate the possibility of the consciousness as independent but connected with the three physical dimensions. The consciousness doesn't exhibit any of the characteristics of the three physical dimensions. Everything within our 3d universe is predictable according to the laws of physics or at least statistically predictable except consciousness. All purely physical matter is absolutely governed by physical cause and effect but does not initiate cause and effect. Unlike anything else within our universe, consciousness has the ability to initiate cause and effect. Consciousness also has self awareness, emotions, thoughts, contemplation and intention. These qualities are not demonstrated in any manner by purely 3d matter lacking consciousness.
The qualities of consciousness simply don't fit into a 3d physical universe.
So does the consciousness physically reside in a 4th or higher dimension with the remainder of the body in 3 dimensions? A 3d body and 3d senses would not be able to perceive a 4th or higher dimension. Yet a consciousness in the 4th or higher dimension would be able to interact with a 3d universe and 3d brain. It seems like it could be possible.
Our universe at its most basic level seems to consist of nothing more than intersecting fields of information. As the fields intersect information is altered and transferred. Our bodily senses rout this input of information to our brain and then consciousness. The consciousness internally produces the universe we perceive. It produces a universe with solidity, space, dimensions, colors and smells which is a beautiful representation of what is actually a vast empty space composed of nothing but information fields.
But to the point, the 3 dimensional space we perceive from information fields is created by our consciousness. Everything we measure with our experiments is filtered through a consciousness which can only create 3 dimensional perception. The universe could be composed of an infinity of dimensions but if our consciousness can only construct three, we would only see the 3 dimensions rather than the infinity. And if the universe is actually only crisscrossing fields of information, do we even have 3 physical dimensions at all. Perhaps we just have an artificial perception of 3 physical dimensions within a reality of anything from zero dimensions to an infinity of dimensions.
But consciousness has to be real because we are self aware. So we know we have at least one "real" dimension allowing for the existence of consciousness. We know there is linkage between consciousness and the perceived universe or we wouldn't experience it. Although considering the qualities demonstrated by a consciousness, it seems likely that consciousness is not an inherent component of the perceived 3 dimensional physical universe. So it seems likely the consciousness does exist within its own dimension separate from the perceived 3d universe.