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Mind Control
- Thread starter Rick
- Start date
mind-control must begin within the individual(s), and then project outward
meaning that, i see it that the State which accentuates left-brain attitudes, suppresses right-brain explorations even for itself, and thus seeks to control everyone else
isn't this what the MK-ULTRA was all about. i mean, not that far removed from when it was going on, i was taking acid (1971), and my approach was as far removed from the CIA's agenda as could be
They wanted to utilize LSD, etc as A means of mind control, cause their very mental-st, and modus operandi has control, as central. so like Mida whose touch turned everything to gold, their touch turns everything to control, or totalitarianism
Now they -the States brain-scientists are working on ways to actually 'peer' into the brain. to be able to tell if you are lying when you say you cant work.....reading fking MINDs already!...this all reminds me of a Clockwork Orange (you know, the film?)....where the State wants to 'cure/control' the 'criminal mind'
they are doing it right now with children in schools. if behaviour is seen to be 'wrong' they use pseudoscience diagnoses to call it a 'mental illness' annd drug it
if you believe that as well as THIS mindfuc they also are using 'aliens', plese refreshen my as to why and how....i have read about this in the past but have forgotten a bit.
meaning that, i see it that the State which accentuates left-brain attitudes, suppresses right-brain explorations even for itself, and thus seeks to control everyone else
isn't this what the MK-ULTRA was all about. i mean, not that far removed from when it was going on, i was taking acid (1971), and my approach was as far removed from the CIA's agenda as could be
They wanted to utilize LSD, etc as A means of mind control, cause their very mental-st, and modus operandi has control, as central. so like Mida whose touch turned everything to gold, their touch turns everything to control, or totalitarianism
Now they -the States brain-scientists are working on ways to actually 'peer' into the brain. to be able to tell if you are lying when you say you cant work.....reading fking MINDs already!...this all reminds me of a Clockwork Orange (you know, the film?)....where the State wants to 'cure/control' the 'criminal mind'
they are doing it right now with children in schools. if behaviour is seen to be 'wrong' they use pseudoscience diagnoses to call it a 'mental illness' annd drug it
if you believe that as well as THIS mindfuc they also are using 'aliens', plese refreshen my as to why and how....i have read about this in the past but have forgotten a bit.
Duendy, The govt's preoccupation with mind control was triggered, at least in part, by their knowledge of the abduction phenomenon. Hypnosis plays a very dominant role here, and that has been the area of the govt's keenest interest.
Secondarily, an alien civilization or civilizations continues to interfere with humanity, mentally. They don't have to physically be here to do this. It can be accomplished from a distance, though initial contact may be required. This can have political and other social implications, even religious ones.
Thirdly--Govt mind control projects may now have the capability of doing some of the same things,(mock alien abduction) but I'd be surprised if they're responsible for all of them.
This is pure conjecture on my part, based on reading some of the more credible reports for the last 20 years.
There's a lot of smoke and mirrors here. It is THE most complicated area, of scientific inquiry, conceptually speaking. This is one of the reasons it's confined to the ghetto of psuedo science. We haven't developed the right scientific category to put it into and may never be able to. It might just be a basic limiting factor of dealing with a greater intelligence.
Our existing files are simply inadequate. To relegate all of it to the arena of quantum physics, ignores the vital fact that the scientific subject in any scientific experiment regarding et's, can easily reverse roles with the human experimenter, without his knowledge, hopelessly skewing data, if it so chooses.
This isn't purely a quantum physics phenomenon based on experiments with photons. It's more like an intelligence operation using trickery. If there is any single reason the govt doesn't want the public to be thinking about these things, this is likely the number one reason. What would be the purpose of even launching a public scientific inquiry, if you can't rely on the subject to remain subject?
I am sympathetic with skeptics and even with debunkers on this point: Alien abduction is imposed on some, but the object of intense narcissistic fantasizing by others, so it's ripe for ridicule.
But to lump all the stories together as hoax, or hypnagogia, or any number of other plausible explanations, doesn't really do it justice.
If it can't be studied scientifically, due to modern science's limits, perhaps it should be studied using what limited reason we possess. That may be a worthy by-product of the experience.
Secondarily, an alien civilization or civilizations continues to interfere with humanity, mentally. They don't have to physically be here to do this. It can be accomplished from a distance, though initial contact may be required. This can have political and other social implications, even religious ones.
Thirdly--Govt mind control projects may now have the capability of doing some of the same things,(mock alien abduction) but I'd be surprised if they're responsible for all of them.
This is pure conjecture on my part, based on reading some of the more credible reports for the last 20 years.
There's a lot of smoke and mirrors here. It is THE most complicated area, of scientific inquiry, conceptually speaking. This is one of the reasons it's confined to the ghetto of psuedo science. We haven't developed the right scientific category to put it into and may never be able to. It might just be a basic limiting factor of dealing with a greater intelligence.
Our existing files are simply inadequate. To relegate all of it to the arena of quantum physics, ignores the vital fact that the scientific subject in any scientific experiment regarding et's, can easily reverse roles with the human experimenter, without his knowledge, hopelessly skewing data, if it so chooses.
This isn't purely a quantum physics phenomenon based on experiments with photons. It's more like an intelligence operation using trickery. If there is any single reason the govt doesn't want the public to be thinking about these things, this is likely the number one reason. What would be the purpose of even launching a public scientific inquiry, if you can't rely on the subject to remain subject?
I am sympathetic with skeptics and even with debunkers on this point: Alien abduction is imposed on some, but the object of intense narcissistic fantasizing by others, so it's ripe for ridicule.
But to lump all the stories together as hoax, or hypnagogia, or any number of other plausible explanations, doesn't really do it justice.
If it can't be studied scientifically, due to modern science's limits, perhaps it should be studied using what limited reason we possess. That may be a worthy by-product of the experience.
Secondarily, an alien civilization or civilizations continues to interfere with humanity, mentally. They don't have to physically be here to do this. It can be accomplished from a distance, though initial contact may be required. This can have political and other social implications, even religious ones
And here all along I had thought we managed to conjure up gods all on our own.
We haven't developed the right scientific category to put it into and may never be able to. It might just be a basic limiting factor of dealing with a greater intelligence.
Perhaps, but people who live fantasies have been scientifically categorized: The Walter Mitty Syndrome.
If it can't be studied scientifically, due to modern science's limits, perhaps it should be studied using what limited reason we possess.
"We?"
And here all along I had thought we managed to conjure up gods all on our own.
We haven't developed the right scientific category to put it into and may never be able to. It might just be a basic limiting factor of dealing with a greater intelligence.
Perhaps, but people who live fantasies have been scientifically categorized: The Walter Mitty Syndrome.
If it can't be studied scientifically, due to modern science's limits, perhaps it should be studied using what limited reason we possess.
"We?"
Q, We? --Oui
You aren't asking questions--you're in attack mode, so I won't engage you. I wrote 2 or 3 paragraphs explaining why science MIGHT not be up to the task of studying a superior intelligence. So why conclude your (cross examination) response with that question?
If you are hoping to engage me in an endless round of peripheral inanities in an effort to trip me up on some detail, I remind you that this is a science, not legal forum. Please respect the scientific approach and free inquiry.
You aren't asking questions--you're in attack mode, so I won't engage you. I wrote 2 or 3 paragraphs explaining why science MIGHT not be up to the task of studying a superior intelligence. So why conclude your (cross examination) response with that question?
If you are hoping to engage me in an endless round of peripheral inanities in an effort to trip me up on some detail, I remind you that this is a science, not legal forum. Please respect the scientific approach and free inquiry.
Please respect the scientific approach...
Uh yeah, right. You've yet to show that approach. So far, all you've managed are fantasies and conspiracy theories. Please don't insult us further with your pathetic drivel.
It is only you who possesses limited reason.
Uh yeah, right. You've yet to show that approach. So far, all you've managed are fantasies and conspiracy theories. Please don't insult us further with your pathetic drivel.
It is only you who possesses limited reason.
Q, I've discussed a difficult problem with an open mind, using conjecture. How is this unscientific? I'm trying to lay a groundwork for a discussion about whether or not some subjects can be studied scientifically. This is a logical question that respects science, but understands it's limitations.
It's easy to see why people leave this forum. They're repeatedly harrassed. If you continue to insult me, I'll contact the moderator.
It's easy to see why people leave this forum. They're repeatedly harrassed. If you continue to insult me, I'll contact the moderator.
Agitprop said:Once the ear is trained to distinguish the signal from the noise, it's easy to see, that the subject of mind control pops up repetetively in politics, religion, govt, entertainment etc... It transgresses all categories.
Could you enlighten me. How do you define "mind control"? Is a coca-cola commercial an attempt at mind controlling somebody into buying a coke?
Listen very carefully to what I'm going to tell you here. Organized humanity is at at juncture where it could begin to organize along the line of social insects controlled by a central authority, like a queen bee, releasing pheramones, (metaphorically speaking).
In what sense is this "central authority" you speak off different than a federal government?
The collective unconscious is uneasy with this idea and it's being expressed in many sci fiction entertainment formats.
Be very worried about a govt that preaches freedom, freedom and more freedom, while it does the opposite.
Define collective unconscious, if you will.
In actual fact, the govt became interested in mind control because of the highly developed hypnosis techniques they knew accompanied these abduction scenarios. The abductions came first, the intense govt. interest followed.
In actual fact? How do you know this to be a fact?
And this is what it's ALL about. Will we reach our full potential as individuals linked cooperatively with evolving creative intellect and with emotions refining synergistically, or will we hit an evolutionary dead end as easily manipulated social insects?
Emotions refining synergistically. What does that mean?
The collective unconscious is screaming with pain.
How do you know that?
My God, what's happening to me....? I'm on Agitprop and duendy's side!
Well, not entirely. My answer to Agitprop about scientific study is that if conventional science is unable to approach a particular problem, then no credibility can be attached to any other method supposed to provide an answer. And Why? Because the definition of science is pretty much "that process of investigation, the results upon which reasonable people agree". And the processes of science are designed in such a way that reasonable people have little alternative but to agree upon the result and the confirmation or denial of the hypothesis. But if you want to go outside "conventional science", then there can be no useful result, because not everybody could possibly agree as to the hypothesis. Say, for example, that your method is to put yourself in a trance and communicate telepathically with the putative aliens. Since I am not in the position of being able to verify that that is what is happening, I can state my own hypothesis about what is happening, namely that you have closed your eyes and are making stuff up. You can't deny my hypothesis, and I can't deny your hypothesis. You talk about the "limitations of science", but this inability to provide a single agreed hypothesis is the supreme limitation to non-scientific exploration, and the real reason that science reigns supreme as the only viable way to study the Universe.
As to MKULTRA, it seems to me to document a very real attempt by former administrations to investigate different ways in which people could be controlled. I'm sure its originally totally innocent and justifiable motivation was to use against enemy agents, but there can be no doubt whatsoever that eventually some kind of general population control would have resulted (not, I believe, politically biassed control, ie to keep the Republicans in power for example, but more insidiously just to maintain the power of the Executive). As it turns out, however, with the huge advances in media technology and the vast accumulation of knowledge of public relations (at which America is the sine qua non expert), use of hypnotic, mesmeric or overtly chemical means are actually far less effective than routine media spin and advertising design.
Well, not entirely. My answer to Agitprop about scientific study is that if conventional science is unable to approach a particular problem, then no credibility can be attached to any other method supposed to provide an answer. And Why? Because the definition of science is pretty much "that process of investigation, the results upon which reasonable people agree". And the processes of science are designed in such a way that reasonable people have little alternative but to agree upon the result and the confirmation or denial of the hypothesis. But if you want to go outside "conventional science", then there can be no useful result, because not everybody could possibly agree as to the hypothesis. Say, for example, that your method is to put yourself in a trance and communicate telepathically with the putative aliens. Since I am not in the position of being able to verify that that is what is happening, I can state my own hypothesis about what is happening, namely that you have closed your eyes and are making stuff up. You can't deny my hypothesis, and I can't deny your hypothesis. You talk about the "limitations of science", but this inability to provide a single agreed hypothesis is the supreme limitation to non-scientific exploration, and the real reason that science reigns supreme as the only viable way to study the Universe.
As to MKULTRA, it seems to me to document a very real attempt by former administrations to investigate different ways in which people could be controlled. I'm sure its originally totally innocent and justifiable motivation was to use against enemy agents, but there can be no doubt whatsoever that eventually some kind of general population control would have resulted (not, I believe, politically biassed control, ie to keep the Republicans in power for example, but more insidiously just to maintain the power of the Executive). As it turns out, however, with the huge advances in media technology and the vast accumulation of knowledge of public relations (at which America is the sine qua non expert), use of hypnotic, mesmeric or overtly chemical means are actually far less effective than routine media spin and advertising design.
The unconscious (or indeed conscious) of both you and I may well be screaming with pain at this, Agitprop - but the evidence seems to suggest that the vast majority prefer the hive mind, and who's to say they're wrong? The extermination of original thought and genuine creativity proceeds apace, and indeed this does make me scream with pain. But if that were true of what you call "the collective unconscious", then it wouldn't work - the endlessly repetitive junk that passes for art and entertainment would not be as popular as it evidently is!The collective unconscious is screaming with pain.
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The whole dsign for mind control is really
quite old. for example the Western Judaic-Christian creation myth of Adam and Eve is all about mind control. basically it is that we MUST obey 'God'...and whose 'God'...male authority is who 'HE' is.......and the magical tree that is the hallucinogenic sacrament is forbidden. 'God' has his angel-bouncers barring anyone eat its Fruit.............zoom to the 21st century...YES! the 20 FIRST CENTURY and what do we got? we got A 'war on drugs'....what drugs pray?.....All drugs, like tea and coffee, and ciggies, and alcohol (YIP. alcohol IS A drug), and chocklate and, psychiatric medication, and allopathic drugs....? NO.....don't tell me HALLUCINOGENS are waged war against...?! Yes, this is so. then that begs the question, WHY? cause when you look into this you see that this fear regarding our free use of hallucinogenic inspiration goes way back....as i briefly explained. Is this NOT mind-control?....of bleedin COURSE it is
regarding your beliuef Agirpop about ETs influencing civilizations. that to me is also an old idea. like for example the Annunanki myth, etc. And some even claim that shrooms are also part of that conspiracy. that the taking of them has caused some culttic mindset to look to the stars and wish to escape Earth, and wage wars etc
but all this to me is passin the buck. it is blaming a 'devil' or 'the unconscious' or 'mental illness' for one's OWN actions. its like some child's 'as if' attitude. who wont take reponsibility for its OWN behaviour/actions
all we HAVe to do is look at the game and see through it. thn the myth dont got ya...or its grasp gets less like a straightjaket......if you see what they are sellin is crap, are you gonna buy it?
quite old. for example the Western Judaic-Christian creation myth of Adam and Eve is all about mind control. basically it is that we MUST obey 'God'...and whose 'God'...male authority is who 'HE' is.......and the magical tree that is the hallucinogenic sacrament is forbidden. 'God' has his angel-bouncers barring anyone eat its Fruit.............zoom to the 21st century...YES! the 20 FIRST CENTURY and what do we got? we got A 'war on drugs'....what drugs pray?.....All drugs, like tea and coffee, and ciggies, and alcohol (YIP. alcohol IS A drug), and chocklate and, psychiatric medication, and allopathic drugs....? NO.....don't tell me HALLUCINOGENS are waged war against...?! Yes, this is so. then that begs the question, WHY? cause when you look into this you see that this fear regarding our free use of hallucinogenic inspiration goes way back....as i briefly explained. Is this NOT mind-control?....of bleedin COURSE it is
regarding your beliuef Agirpop about ETs influencing civilizations. that to me is also an old idea. like for example the Annunanki myth, etc. And some even claim that shrooms are also part of that conspiracy. that the taking of them has caused some culttic mindset to look to the stars and wish to escape Earth, and wage wars etc
but all this to me is passin the buck. it is blaming a 'devil' or 'the unconscious' or 'mental illness' for one's OWN actions. its like some child's 'as if' attitude. who wont take reponsibility for its OWN behaviour/actions
all we HAVe to do is look at the game and see through it. thn the myth dont got ya...or its grasp gets less like a straightjaket......if you see what they are sellin is crap, are you gonna buy it?
duendy, when you talk like that you sound like a hyperactive zealot. Hidden in your hyperbole are perfectly rational points, I do wish you'd spell them out more clearly!duendy said:zoom to the 21st century...YES! the 20 FIRST CENTURY and what do we got?
But to disagree with you slightly, the War on Drugs is not specifically a war against hallucinogens because of the effect they, the drugs, have. The War on Drugs is in and of itself a means of public mind control, to blow up minor concerns into big world-altering problems in order to distract the public from less acceptable things the Government gets up to. Same with the War Against Terrorism, which the Government uses in order to justify totally Unconstitutional actions as if the "War" on terrorism were an actual, Congress-declared, honest-to-goodness War! As Bill Hicks said, "Go back to sleep, America".
I've discussed a difficult problem with an open mind, using conjecture. How is this unscientific?
You're talking about fantasies - that is not scientific. Get a grip.
This is a logical question that respects science.
Everything you written thus far opposes science, where is the logic in that?
It's easy to see why people leave this forum. They're repeatedly harrassed.
People who live their fantasies, such as yourself, leave these forums when they find that those who live in reality do not agree with them.
You've tossed your fair share of insults, not only at science but other members too.
The pot calling the kettle black?
You're talking about fantasies - that is not scientific. Get a grip.
This is a logical question that respects science.
Everything you written thus far opposes science, where is the logic in that?
It's easy to see why people leave this forum. They're repeatedly harrassed.
People who live their fantasies, such as yourself, leave these forums when they find that those who live in reality do not agree with them.
You've tossed your fair share of insults, not only at science but other members too.
The pot calling the kettle black?
Silas said:duendy, when you talk like that you sound like a hyperactive zealot. Hidden in your hyperbole are perfectly rational points, I do wish you'd spell them out more clearly!
d)))heard of passion dear boy?
But to disagree with you slightly, the War on Drugs is not specifically a war against hallucinogens because of the effect they, the drugs, have.
d)))that is my main point! of COURSE it is. we are talking here 'mind control' are we not? well how do you define mnd control then? IF therer was a means by which you can see through the whole machinery of mind control given the right set and setting, would YOU if you sought mind control not wnat to prohibit that means? ....think about it
The War on Drugs is in and of itself a means of public mind control, to blow up minor concerns into big world-altering problems in order to distract the public from less acceptable things the Government gets up to.
d)))no. your barkin up the wrong tree. hallunogens are specifically targetted. and this patter can be seen throughout patriarchal history (i know you love that word...) read Shamanism and the Drug Propaganda: Patriarchy and the Drug War, by Dan Russell. He whows the historial precedence of mind control which demands control on the hallucinogenis by various power weilding elites. I.E., it aint a new thing.
Same with the War Against Terrorism, which the Government uses in order to justify totally Unconstitutional actions as if the "War" on terrorism were an actual, Congress-declared, honest-to-goodness War!
With THAt war i agree with you whole heartedly. The invention of an 'Enemy' so as to control the fear ridden 'masses' is also a major strtegy of the ruling elites.
But that doesn't mean the war on hallucinogens follows the same intent.
If you dont agree, show me some source who backs you up where you say the 'war on drugs' is a cover. it Is regarding covery money operations. Dan Russel's book 'Drug War' meticulously goes into that, even naming names. but the drugs in question are the 'hard rugs' like cocaine, heroin, but also insluding marijuana too. the monies are used for corporate wars etc. But that doesn't mean that the banning of hallucinogens, and the propaganda against them isn't designed as mind control. it is the EPITOME of mind control Is literally mind control. cant you see this!?
check out cognitive liberty--they have a site dedicated to all about this subject.
And togther with the drugs that escape the 'war'--the shrink meds, that too highlights what i mean. for where hallucinogens are emotion inspirers par excellence. 'meds' are designed to CONTROL emotion.
As Bill Hicks said, "Go back to sleep, America".
yeah, cause its on meds
Science may not be adequate to study this phenomenon. This doesn't mean that it isn't perhaps the best yardstick we have at the present time, it just isn't adequate to study a superior intelligence. That's all. And that's quite logical. I don't know how this is unscientific. I have carefully explained why, using conjecture. If you don't like to discuss the philosophical aspects of science, that's actually more your problem than mine.
As far as my "fantasies" go, Q. Your's seem to be limited to fantasizing about harrassing someone off a public forum with truly nasty comments. Do you imagine yourself as a sadistic protector of the truth, all dressed up in leathers while you do this? If you're going to be objectionable, you should at least try to use humour. You'd have more fun, if you did.
As far as my "fantasies" go, Q. Your's seem to be limited to fantasizing about harrassing someone off a public forum with truly nasty comments. Do you imagine yourself as a sadistic protector of the truth, all dressed up in leathers while you do this? If you're going to be objectionable, you should at least try to use humour. You'd have more fun, if you did.
(Q),
i think we need to understand the matter here,clearly and precisely :
Did anyone of you ever get involved with research work? The essence of true research today is formally categorized into :
1)Positivist : (A Priori based)
2.)Interpretive
3.)Descriptive
in interpretive, you do consider a priori, but you are not allowed to be influenced by it, in your results, are you all freaking so called scientists saying to me, that all the reality is objectively given? and hence the conjectures from it are based on direct evidence and that interpretive research work sucks?
Get hold of yourself, go and chill out in night club and then come to post...
heh...
i think we need to understand the matter here,clearly and precisely :
Did anyone of you ever get involved with research work? The essence of true research today is formally categorized into :
1)Positivist : (A Priori based)
2.)Interpretive
3.)Descriptive
in interpretive, you do consider a priori, but you are not allowed to be influenced by it, in your results, are you all freaking so called scientists saying to me, that all the reality is objectively given? and hence the conjectures from it are based on direct evidence and that interpretive research work sucks?
Get hold of yourself, go and chill out in night club and then come to post...
heh...
I think people who consider themselves scientists need to know that any conjecture purely based on a priori would be a mistake,since empirical evidence matters. There have been cases,(if you read the complete thing) that are empirircally inspiring, but oh! well so much so for being a blind faith skeptic.
Science may not be adequate to study this phenomenon.
Agreed. Science is only adequate at studying that which exists in reality.
... it just isn't adequate to study a superior intelligence. That's all. And that's quite logical. I don't know how this is unscientific.
There is no better method to study anything other than what science provides. Your statement is illogical.
If you don't like to discuss the philosophical aspects of science, that's actually more your problem than mine.
You're not discussing, you're simply dissing science. And yes, that is a problem.
Do you imagine yourself as a sadistic protector of the truth, all dressed up in leathers while you do this?
You forgot the chains and cat-o-nine tails.
If you're going to be objectionable, you should at least try to use humour.
Didn't I?
Agreed. Science is only adequate at studying that which exists in reality.
... it just isn't adequate to study a superior intelligence. That's all. And that's quite logical. I don't know how this is unscientific.
There is no better method to study anything other than what science provides. Your statement is illogical.
If you don't like to discuss the philosophical aspects of science, that's actually more your problem than mine.
You're not discussing, you're simply dissing science. And yes, that is a problem.
Do you imagine yourself as a sadistic protector of the truth, all dressed up in leathers while you do this?
You forgot the chains and cat-o-nine tails.
If you're going to be objectionable, you should at least try to use humour.
Didn't I?