Me and Mohammad share a common similarity (click here to see what!)
- Thread starter Michael
- Start date
What are you talking about? My thread is about my thoughts on why Mohammad and I were/are both atheist. As almost nothing is known of Mohammad (including his putative existence) then I fail to see where the inaccuracy is coming in?
Look, like I said, North Koreans take it as a personal insult when you suggest Kim Jung Il is not GOD. So? No talking about Kim Junh Il? Anyway, this is a specific thread about a particular topic.
Who said anything about Scientology? Me.
Why? Because it helps people who are used to thinking a certain way to step back and see their own belief reflected from other people's belief. In this case it's your belief and a Scientology.
scifes,
I'm sorry but you have not offered anything other than mythology, which is not good evidence. Maybe ask Norsefire what he thinks. I think he may have been Muslim at one time?
Anyway, I can feel the pinch (of work) so off I go....
Thats what I meant by inaccuracies.
http://www.opendemocracy.net/faith-europe_islam/mohammed_3866.jsp
I'll tell you what SAM, you can open a thread about the historical evidence for the existence of Mohammad. Because I've searched and, like all other mythical people, there isn't much of anything there.
Secondly, can you look into Mohammad's mind? No. Even if the man were standing right here telling you that he just heard an angel tell him A B and C you personally wouldn't know. (you'd either think he was lying or schizophrenic). BUT, regardless, we both know that for this thread there are no pixies, leprechauns, devils or angels THEN we can surmise that IF Mohammad did exist he was atheist.
I actually find it interesting. In a way this is a good connection with Atheists and Mohammad. Believe it or not, we atheists can actually see a side of Mohammad you are missing completely. And I'm not talking about a small side, I'm talking half his personality. I know exactly what he was thinking. You can even see how it built up and got out of hand - and that's when things turned ugly. He probably realized it was wrong to manipulate people like this and that's when the screw broke loose. That's when he may have started to believe it himself. As they all do.
You know, when you stop and think about it, that Buddha character (or just say Indian people) had a much better and more honest way - it's reflected in the ideology. meh....
:facepalm:
i give up Michael, i totally do.
there's nothing like someone who knows nothing and thinks he knows everything.
originally: it shares the same core, different details changed from one religion to other.
nowadays: they have core differences, because of alteration over time, that alteration can be seen in how they are"proven" wrong, or their inconsistancies listed.
i know, but when someone thinks he knows it all, he sees no need to try to know.:shrug:Even when people do not know.....it is okay to try to know....hahaha.: .
Right, I didn't say otherwise; but the most intelligent of men use their intelligence for their own benefit first and foremost. If Mohommad really was a "con" man as you say, then he was brilliant; his legacy continues to live on! What greater success is there than that?
if he were atheist then it was a failure, as he didn't enjoy his one shot at life as he should. a legacy is nothing for a dead man.
OP debunked.
you are "god" to live people.
but you are dead.
your perception is zero.
if people worship you or pee on your grave makes no difference.
so in the absence of an afterlife, mohammad's life was a failure. one which doesn't suit his super intelligence.
or the after life exists, and he needs not to be a super human to trick everybody because it's all true.
any other scenarios i didn't consider?
Think about it like this Scifes, there is no more and no less evidence for you God as there is for a Japanese mountain-river Gods (of which there are a lot of [Japan is hilly] and they are worshiped by 100s of millions of Japanese even today). There is no more and no less evidence for Xenu The Alien Overlord and in fact I know Muslims who have left Islam and became Scientologists and worshipped Xenu.
Ask yourself: CAN you believe in Xenu? Can you? Is it possible? No. You can not will yourself to believe in Xenu (well, probably not).
Anyway, back to this thread. Mohammad and I do share one way of looking at the world, at reality, we both see the world through the eyes of an Atheist. I made my case in the OP. I think it's a solid case.
M
Lastly, why don't you do this little mind exercise. List the similarities between Mohammad and Ron Hubbard. How they are the same. I can list some:
- They both claim to have received information directly into their brain that they, and only they, could hear.
- They both claim to be Prophets.
- They both lead large groups of followers who believed they received information.
- They both founded large religions.
can you think of any?
After you do this, do the same using Joseph Smith Jr.
Jesus was probably pure myth. Moses, if not myth, could have been a Pharaoh. I believe that people raised from childhood to think they are Gods, probably believe that they are.
Is Kim Jung Il brilliant? Maybe.
To tell you the truth, there's nothing really new about it. I mean, being a Prophet. Julius Caesar was a so-called "Prophet". He had Gods on both sides of his family. This aspect of Julius wasn't really a big deal. He slotted himself into the scheme of things. What is a big deal is his novel invention of military tactics. When I think of Mohammad, I think, sure he united a few very small desert tribes. But, he did it the same old way, pretending he was a Prophet. That's really not a big achievement. I think the real credit goes to the people who used his momentum to create their own empires - such as the first Arab Emperor. But, again, this isn't all that new. The Chinese, Japanese, Roman, Persian, etc... Emperor's were always worshiped as Gods or Prophets or in some way connected to the Gods.
So, were the people intelligent? Sure, but really, to get the kudos you really need to invent something completely novel. If not then in a sense you're kind of a hack.
Another thing that I find people have a hard time doing with these mythical characters is accepting they were human and some of what they did was wrong by today's standards. Julius Caesar - great military genius. Invented and improved many military maneuvers. But, he also had a habit of provoking an attack and massacring and enslaving up to 1 million people. Back then this was a sizable portion of the earths population. The same could be said of Ghangus Khan. He was a military and political genius. Agreed? He also wiped out up to 80% of the Chinese in some areas. He used to stack high mountains of Muslims skulls as little monumental warnings. You think Mohammad was intelligent. Well, you must have loved Ghangus. No?
Mohammad seems to have invented the concept of a "Last" Prophet. But, I don't really think so, I think that concept came around 300 years later during the pseudo-deification of Mohammad. Second, the Xians already came up with a very similar idea - that of the Messiah. Which is very similar in terms of ruling people. It's one of those things that's hard to one-up (although Joseph Smith figured out a way to).
Compare with Ron Hubbard. He came up with the Religion that worships Aliens. I mean, THAT'S novel. The first person to do it. Although, that said, I think someone would have sooner or later.
So, these people are clever. But, do they really deserve our respect? They are using people to further their own gains. If THAT is what you respect then go ahead and respect them. Me, I respect the Philosophers. The best work hard educate people. They try to find New and Novel ways of viewing reality BUT they also SHARE this information, they don't hide it and use it to promote only themselves.