Me and Mohammad share a common similarity (click here to see what!)

scifes,

1) Can you post the name of the person (s) who wrote the Qur'an and the date it was finished? Thanks :)

2) Every solder in Greek, Roman, Chinese etc... armys carried honey to apply to sword cuts to prevent infection. It was a well known and commonly known fact that honey had antiseptic properties. These properties were known by people for about 2000 years before the birth of Mohammad. YET, here you are believing that it's a "miricle"... like I said, the Scientologist will save a seat for you at the table... :D
 
scifes said:
i'm not stupid to jump "that's cool, i'm in" actually i might for the heck of it
but hey, i have a brain and sense, i can work logic, and so did the people then..but if i can believe him upon evidence that lived through the mutilation of 1400 years, i'm sure making a dicision then would be easier.
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So believing in Mohammed would take some time?

What logic is your brain and sense working that makes Mohammed the real deal?
 
Michael said:
scifes,

1) Can you post the name of the person (s) who wrote the Qur'an and the date it was finished? Thanks
Click to expand...
ugh, i don't know what made me do it, but i searched it, thinking it may be something special or a "flaw" in islam, just to find it stated clearly in many many sites, even freaking arabic wikipedia, here are the friggin names you asked for:
some said thirteen some said more than twenty:
1-abo baker al-siddeq
2-omar ibnu alkhattab.
3-ali ibnu abi taleb.
4-othman ibnu affan.
5-abban ibn saeed ibnu alaas
6-obayy ibnu kaab.
7-zaid ibnu thabit
8-moath ibnu jabal.
9-arqam ibnu abi alarqam(name was abdu manaf)
10-thabit ibnu qays.
11-handala ibnu alrabee
12-khalid ibnu saeed ibnu alaas
13-khalid ibnu al waleed.
14-alzubayer ibnu al awaam.
15-abdullah ibnu saad ibnu abi sarh.
16-aamer ibnu fuhayrah.
17-abdullah ibnu arqam.
18-abdullah ibnu zaid ibnu abd rabbah.
19-al alaa ibnu al hadrami.
20-mohammad ibnu muslimah ibnu jurais.
21-moawiyah ibnu aby sufian.
22-al mugira ibnu shuba.this is a comprehensive list of the names..multiple sources have some of them, many say these are all of them..

now, you better do something impressive with those names, it wasn't easy looking for them and listing them all here:mad:



note that some other sits list the names of the "writets" who the prophet used in general, they read, wrote and translated everything the prophet needed from letters to kings of other empires to the quran...these names include the ones i listed but have some others..

not only is this some list..there are records of those people remembering the occasions of what and they wrote or translated, on what(not always paper)..you come along such stories seperatly while reading their biographies(that's how i come a cross it..first time i see the list..which i still think serves no purpose)

these are the links i found..would be a waste to find them all and just forget them..it isn't propaganda or preaching because they are in arabic(let on of you tell me arabic sites are less credible than english ones and i'll bite his head off.) i also want to keep them as a reference.
http://www.aklaam.net/forum/showthread.php?t=19648 a post in a forum with reference to the "al bidayah wa alnihayah"
http://www.islamweb.net.qa/ver2/Fatwa/ShowFatwa.php?lang=A&Id=100265&Option=FatwaId
references as many arab books and encyclopedias..

http://www.upower.net/forum/t5603.html
a guy who's done some real research on a forum, two lists referenced to two books, writers of the prophet in general, "abstracts" of his letters to the king of Bahrain(not sure the same country as now, maybe means east of the peninsula), to hercul(or herculies, some roman king), to the king of what's now Ethiopia or Somalia, to the king of who lived in Egypt.. the content of the letters is obvious..

http://montada.rasoulallah.net/index.php?showtopic=16944
guy in forum, lists same list as mine with same refrence, then adds biography of each one.

http://www.islamweb.net/ver2/Fatwa/ShowFatwa.php?lang=A&Id=69904&Option=FatwaId
same list, same reference.

http://ar.wikipedia.org/wiki/كاتب_الوحي
arabic wikipedia

ALRIGHT, NOW WHAT?:frust:

2) Every solder in Greek, Roman, Chinese etc... armys carried honey to apply to sword cuts to prevent infection. It was a well known and commonly known fact that honey had antiseptic properties. These properties were known by people for about 2000 years before the birth of Mohammad. YET, here you are believing that it's a "miricle"... like I said, the Scientologist will save a seat for you at the table...
Click to expand...
:sleep:
 
oops, don't know how come i didn't see it.

but i meant reson and logic in general.

sarkus once put it very nicely, but i forgot it and can't find it.

the reasoning can be seen as: islam being fake and mohammad lying would be more amazing than the big coincidence of us being brought to life and surviving this long by any explanation you can come up with.

not knowing how islam is amazing rendrs this logic wrong..so atheists here can be excused for the most part.
 
scifes said:
the reasoning can be seen as: islam being fake and mohammad lying would be more amazing than the big coincidence of us being brought to life and surviving this long by any explanation you can come up with.
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Sorry, not logical. Less chance of Islam being wrong does not mean it's right. Yow! I think you might want to take another look at that.

not knowing how islam is amazing rendrs this logic wrong..so atheists here can be excused for the most part.
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Oh, it's amazing all right. I think the whole world is freakin' amazed by it. So Islam isn't as amazing as Moe lying or Islam being fake? :shrug:
 
PsychoticEpisode said:
Sorry, not logical. Less chance of Islam being wrong does not mean it's right. Yow! I think you might want to take another look at that.



Oh, it's amazing all right. I think the whole world is freakin' amazed by it. So Islam isn't as amazing as Moe lying or Islam being fake? :shrug:
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:confused:
for some reason you and i don't click, i have a hard time understanding your posts (my fault it seems as shown previously)

the proof of islam, mainly the quran, is the hardest to spawn conspiracy theories about..

it's just hard to see them other wise.."hard" at beginning..the more you see and delve into it, the more you tend to "impossible"..

am i making sense here?
 
Islamic apologetics are quite creative, but also quite unconvincing. At Sciforums, we have periodically been assaulted by Muslims determined to argue that science supports the statements in the Quran.

I don't think Mohammad was a liar, although that's possible. It's more likely that he was suffering some delusion, maybe mental illness, religious hysteria, hashish, who knows.
 
spidergoat said:
Islamic apologetics are quite creative, but also quite unconvincing. At Sciforums, we have periodically been assaulted by Muslims determined to argue that science supports the statements in the Quran.
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assaults which got them all banned..poor sciforums.

I don't think Mohammad was a liar, although that's possible. It's more likely that he was suffering some delusion, maybe mental illness, religious hysteria, hashish, who knows.
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when you suffer of a delusion you come up with something no one can refute.

when you conquer Persia and Rome you have mental illness.

when you are remembered for centuries worldwide it's because of your hysteria.

when you come up with a system which avoids down falls other systems fell in after evolving for 14 centuries, it's because you did hashish.

and when you suffer the most from everyone to deliver all this, you get insulted..

i wish i could say that now you're talking out your ass..but i don't see how's this different than anything you ever said..

is this what you do when an 18 year old beats you in an argument? result to insults like a stupid coward?

you're a hair thick from going to my ignore list, so watch yourself.
 
scifes said:
ugh, i don't know what made me do it, but i searched it, thinking it may be something special or a "flaw" in islam, just to find it stated clearly in many many sites, even freaking arabic wikipedia, here are the friggin names you asked for:
some said thirteen some said more than twenty:
1-abo baker al-siddeq
2-omar ibnu alkhattab.
3-ali ibnu abi taleb.
4-othman ibnu affan.
5-abban ibn saeed ibnu alaas
6-obayy ibnu kaab.
7-zaid ibnu thabit
8-moath ibnu jabal.
9-arqam ibnu abi alarqam(name was abdu manaf)
10-thabit ibnu qays.
11-handala ibnu alrabee
12-khalid ibnu saeed ibnu alaas
13-khalid ibnu al waleed.
14-alzubayer ibnu al awaam.
15-abdullah ibnu saad ibnu abi sarh.
16-aamer ibnu fuhayrah.
17-abdullah ibnu arqam.
18-abdullah ibnu zaid ibnu abd rabbah.
19-al alaa ibnu al hadrami.
20-mohammad ibnu muslimah ibnu jurais.
21-moawiyah ibnu aby sufian.
22-al mugira ibnu shuba.this is a comprehensive list of the names..multiple sources have some of them, many say these are all of them..

now, you better do something impressive with those names, it wasn't easy looking for them and listing them all here:mad:
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Thansk Scifes I'll look into to it when I get some time. :)

Also, you listed the authors, so, it must be a snap to list the year in which they completed their work?

Oh, yeah, could you give me a link in English?
 
scifes said:
assaults which got them all banned..poor sciforums.


when you suffer of a delusion you come up with something no one can refute.

when you conquer Persia and Rome you have mental illness.

when you are remembered for centuries worldwide it's because of your hysteria.

when you come up with a system which avoids down falls other systems fell in after evolving for 14 centuries, it's because you did hashish.

and when you suffer the most from everyone to deliver all this, you get insulted..

i wish i could say that now you're talking out your ass..but i don't see how's this different than anything you ever said..

is this what you do when an 18 year old beats you in an argument? result to insults like a stupid coward?

you're a hair thick from going to my ignore list, so watch yourself.
Click to expand...

The popularity of a concept is no proof of it's truth. Plenty of crazy people were powerful rulers. Islam evolved to be appealing to the human mind, it's like a mind virus. When you think of a proof, feel free to post it, but you haven't yet.
 
scifes said:
:confused:
for some reason you and i don't click, i have a hard time understanding your posts (my fault it seems as shown previously)

the proof of islam, mainly the quran,

am i making sense here?
Click to expand...

The quran is proof of Islam..... Is that some kind of revelation? The Holy Bible is proof of Christianity. The Torah is proof of Judaism. So what? A holy book only proves one thing....there is a religion for it. It doesn't prove anything else, zero, nada, zilch.
 
Michael said:
Thansk Scifes I'll look into to it when I get some time. :)

Also, you listed the authors, so, it must be a snap to list the year in which they completed their work?

Oh, yeah, could you give me a link in English?
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i've got a million tab open about the subject, too lazy to summerize them and post them here:eek:
PsychoticEpisode said:
The quran is proof of Islam..... Is that some kind of revelation? The Holy Bible is proof of Christianity. The Torah is proof of Judaism. So what? A holy book only proves one thing....there is a religion for it. It doesn't prove anything else, zero, nada, zilch.
Click to expand...
nope.

actually and yes too, i agree, each book is proof of the religion it represents, so what?

that should mean they're all right, well, they are, so what?

they're killing off each other, THAT'S WHAT..and sending each other to hell, and saying they're the right ones and the others are wrong..

well, each of the religions was right in it's time, first Judaism, then Christianity, then Islam, each religion is fundamentally the same as the one before it, with different details concerning worship, but they all revolve around worshiping one god. and when a new one comes, followers of the past one follow it "instead"(because they're the same actually).

when followers of the past one refuse the new one, um, well it doesn't make sense, that's number one.

number two, when one of the religions goes astray from its main idea, all kind of sh*t happens, i mean a lot of problems and conflictions, of course i'm talking about present Christianity.

present Christianity is now about the trinity, instead of one god, beaning it's way off track, and that shows in the present version of it's book, which is proof of it being off track and wrong..

so not only is it not proof of it being right, it is actually proof of it being wrong and mislead.

unlike the Quran, which remains unchanged, hence it can be used to prove islam is correct.

bottom line, books of religions aren't only proof of that religion existence, but a truth-meter as well, representing the religion.
 
scifes said:
when followers of the past one refuse the new one, um, well it doesn't make sense, that's number one.
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Why do refuse to be Mormon, then? Why are you still a Muslim?

number two, when one of the religions goes astray from its main idea, all kind of sh*t happens, i mean a lot of problems and conflictions, of course i'm talking about present Christianity.
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The same goes for Islam.

unlike the Quran, which remains unchanged, hence it can be used to prove islam is correct.
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That is a lie. The Quran has changed.
 
(Q) said:
Why do refuse to be Mormon, then? Why are you still a Muslim?
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because islam is reintroduced after each new religion, we make sure we stay in the lead as the newest religion:blbl:

but seriously dealing with your strawman, as in shredding him apart:

Mormonism has no proof to being right whatsoever, nor does it follow the trend of the real religions.



The same goes for Islam.
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:confused:but islam didn't go astray, it still worships the one god and it's book is still intact and holding as a miracle.


That is a lie. The Quran has changed.
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That's a lie. The Quran has not changed.
 
Michael said:
What Mohammad did do was use people's beliefs and superstitions to manipulate them into doing what he wanted them to do.
It's kind of funny when you stop and think about it. DH and SAM spend quite a bit of their time here poo-pooing atheists and all the while they are worshiping one.
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If that's true, then he's quite an intelligent and cunning man.
 
scifes said:
because islam is reintroduced after each new religion, we make sure we stay in the lead as the newest religion
Click to expand...

Bullshit. You should be a Mormon by your own logic.

Mormonism has no proof to being right whatsoever, nor does it follow the trend of the real religions.
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Let me rephrase that so that it applies:

"Islam has no proof to being right whatsoever, nor does it follow the trend of the real religions."

but islam didn't go astray, it still worships the one god and it's book is still intact and holding as a miracle.
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Preaching.

That's a lie. The Quran has not changed.
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Ah, so you only know what's written in the Quran but you don't know it's history. That would explain your ignorance.
 
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