Matthew 24:22

[Lori_7]

22And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.


what does this mean?


context...

http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew+24&version=KJV

 

[James R]

It means that God will shorten the days of calamity etc. etc. for the sake of those who believe in him.

 

[Chipz]

It's a reference to the concept discussed both in Genesis 5:21-24 and Isaiah 57:1. The pertinence of its invocation is likely contextual - I don't know Christian literature well enough to say.

 

[Adstar]

22And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.


what does this mean?


context...

http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew+24&version=KJV

This is the time of the second coming of the Messiah Jesus. This reveals that not all people will die during the tribulation before the Day of the Lord or the Wrath during the Day of the Lord. The Day of the Lord Being the Day of the return of the Messiah Jesus.

On that day we the saints will be transformed into our eternal "good" state of being we will have eternal bodies and shall never die again.

But scriptures reveal that during the 1000 years after the return of the Jesus normal flesh people will live on earth with us. It is these people we shall rule. I believe the people referred to in this scripture is not the elect saints but the elect 144,000 descendants of Abraham who will be preserved through the great tribulation/Day of the Lord and will form the starting population of the millennial kingdom. Also many other nations will survive the Day of the Lord and we shall rule them also. They will be called upon to give a portion of their wealth every year to Jerusalem.

So the flesh saved outside the elect will be saved for the sake of the elect.


All Praise The Ancient of Days

 

[jmpet]

22And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.

I think if you read the whole chapter, you gain a context for the verse.

Jesus is talking about Revelations. Those "whose days should be shortened" refers to evildoers, who will meet their karmic, early end. "The elect's sake" is those that are intolerable in those times... people who run rampant on the streets randomly killing in those end-times. The elect vote for their rightful death.

Jesus is talking about the end of days... The Rapture.

 

[Lori_7]

This is the time of the second coming of the Messiah Jesus. This reveals that not all people will die during the tribulation before the Day of the Lord or the Wrath during the Day of the Lord. The Day of the Lord Being the Day of the return of the Messiah Jesus.

On that day we the saints will be transformed into our eternal "good" state of being we will have eternal bodies and shall never die again.

But scriptures reveal that during the 1000 years after the return of the Jesus normal flesh people will live on earth with us. It is these people we shall rule. I believe the people referred to in this scripture is not the elect saints but the elect 144,000 descendants of Abraham who will be preserved through the great tribulation/Day of the Lord and will form the starting population of the millennial kingdom. Also many other nations will survive the Day of the Lord and we shall rule them also. They will be called upon to give a portion of their wealth every year to Jerusalem.

So the flesh saved outside the elect will be saved for the sake of the elect.


All Praise The Ancient of Days

from what i've heard over the years, i don't think this is a common interpretation of end times events. i've heard of the rapture, but that is similar to the scripture about enoch that chipz referenced, and i've heard of martyrs, which is similar to a perishing of the righteous in the other scripture he referenced, but in all my years i have never heard a christian talk about flesh on this earth being saved.

if they're martyrs, obviously their flesh isn't being saved, and if they are raptured, the days of tribulation would not have to be cut short.

adstar, where does the bible identify these elect? i thought that in revelations, it says the 144,000 will rule with christ? but they die, and are resurrected into the kingdom. remember the population of the tree of life? 12 fruits X 12 months X 1000 years = 144,000?

revelation ch 20 says that these elect are beheaded...


4I saw thrones on which were seated those who had been given authority to judge. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded because of their testimony for Jesus and because of the word of God. They had not worshiped the beast or his image and had not received his mark on their foreheads or their hands. They came to life and reigned with Christ a thousand years. 5(The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were ended.) This is the first resurrection. 6Blessed and holy are those who have part in the first resurrection. The second death has no power over them, but they will be priests of God and of Christ and will reign with him for a thousand years.



i also don't understand how sin would could or should be a part of the kingdom.

 

[Lori_7]

22And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.

I think if you read the whole chapter, you gain a context for the verse.

Jesus is talking about Revelations. Those "whose days should be shortened" refers to evildoers, who will meet their karmic, early end. "The elect's sake" is those that are intolerable in those times... people who run rampant on the streets randomly killing in those end-times. The elect vote for their rightful death.

Jesus is talking about the end of days... The Rapture.

in the bible, "the elect" usually refers to followers of christ.

 

[jmpet]

in the bible, "the elect" usually refers to followers of christ.

(Surah 2: The Cow)

7. Very well then- let's quote the Qu'ran to answer your Biblical question:

8. Of the people there are some who say: "We believe in Allah and the Last Day;" but they do not (really) believe.

9. Fain would they deceive Allah and those who believe, but they only deceive themselves, and realise (it) not!

10. In their hearts is a disease; and Allah has increased their disease: And grievous is the penalty they (incur), because they are false (to themselves).

11. When it is said to them: "Make not mischief on the earth," they say: "Why, we only Want to make peace!"

12. Of a surety, they are the ones who make mischief, but they realise (it) not.

13. When it is said to them: "Believe as the others believe:" They say: "Shall we believe as the fools believe?" Nay, of a surety they are the fools, but they do not know.

14. When they meet those who believe, they say: "We believe;" but when they are alone with their evil ones, they say: "We are really with you: We (were) only jesting."

15. Allah will throw back their mockery on them, and give them rope in their trespasses; so they will wander like blind ones (To and fro).

 

[Lori_7]

(Surah 2: The Cow)

7. Very well then- let's quote the Qu'ran to answer your Biblical question:

8. Of the people there are some who say: "We believe in Allah and the Last Day;" but they do not (really) believe.

9. Fain would they deceive Allah and those who believe, but they only deceive themselves, and realise (it) not!

10. In their hearts is a disease; and Allah has increased their disease: And grievous is the penalty they (incur), because they are false (to themselves).

11. When it is said to them: "Make not mischief on the earth," they say: "Why, we only Want to make peace!"

12. Of a surety, they are the ones who make mischief, but they realise (it) not.

13. When it is said to them: "Believe as the others believe:" They say: "Shall we believe as the fools believe?" Nay, of a surety they are the fools, but they do not know.

14. When they meet those who believe, they say: "We believe;" but when they are alone with their evil ones, they say: "We are really with you: We (were) only jesting."

15. Allah will throw back their mockery on them, and give them rope in their trespasses; so they will wander like blind ones (To and fro).

the bible talks about people like this as well, but don't refer to them as "the elect". this kind of behavior is associated with the pharisees.

matthew ch7 talks of religious people who are false...

A Tree and Its Fruit

15"Watch out for false prophets. They come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ferocious wolves. 16By their fruit you will recognize them. Do people pick grapes from thornbushes, or figs from thistles? 17Likewise every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit. 18A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, and a bad tree cannot bear good fruit. 19Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. 20Thus, by their fruit you will recognize them.
21"Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. 22Many will say to me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and in your name drive out demons and perform many miracles?' 23Then I will tell them plainly, 'I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!'


i also think that the whore in revelations is in reference to this.

 

[Adstar]

from what i've heard over the years, i don't think this is a common interpretation of end times events.

Well are you surprised? i am not a member of any church. I hold no loyalty to any preacher on earth.

i've heard of the rapture, but that is similar to the scripture about enoch that chipz referenced, and i've heard of martyrs, which is similar to a perishing of the righteous in the other scripture he referenced, but in all my years i have never heard a christian talk about flesh on this earth being saved.

Lets face it. most of them think that when Jesus returns that’s the end of it. We all go to heaven and the rest go to hell. of course with this as a foundational belief all scriptures must be interpreted within this prison. I am not in that prison. I read th4e scriptures and they tell a different story.

if they're martyrs, obviously their flesh isn't being saved, and if they are raptured, the days of tribulation would not have to be cut short.

The 144.000 are not martyred and they are not raptured. They are protected by God by His power. And no one will be able to touch these innocent little ones during the days of the Day of the Lord.

adstar, where does the bible identify these elect? i thought that in revelations, it says the 144,000 will rule with christ? but they die, and are resurrected into the kingdom. remember the population of the tree of life? 12 fruits X 12 months X 1000 years = 144,000?

In the OT and in the Book of Revelation.

Ok hope you have patience this might be a long read for you. Lets look at the OT and the Prophet Zechariah

Zechariah 14
The Coming Day of the LORD
1 Behold, the day of the LORD is coming,
And your spoil will be divided in your midst.
2For I will gather all the nations to battle against Jerusalem;
The city shall be taken,
The houses rifled,
And the women ravished.
Half of the city shall go into captivity,
But the remnant of the people shall not be cut off from the city.


3Then the LORD will go forth
And fight against those nations,
As He fights in the day of battle.
4And in that day His feet will stand on the Mount of Olives,
Which faces Jerusalem on the east.
And the Mount of Olives shall be split in two,
From east to west,
Making a very large valley;
Half of the mountain shall move toward the north
And half of it toward the south.

5Then you shall flee through My mountain valley,
For the mountain valley shall reach to Azal.
Yes, you shall flee
As you fled from the earthquake
In the days of Uzziah king of Judah.


Thus the LORD my God will come,
And all the saints with You.

( Note it says He will be coming with all the saints That’s us not the remnant spoken of before We will be coming with the Lord After we have been ruptured to meet him upon His arrival.)


6It shall come to pass in that day
That there will be no light;
The lights will diminish.
7It shall be one day
Which is known to the LORD--
Neither day nor night.
But at evening time it shall happen
That it will be light.

(This reference to the day being darkened is in alignment with scriptures in the book of revelation revealing the same thing happening. I believe this will be caused by a meteor impact)


From this I can only believe that a remnant of those in Jerusalem and Israel will be saved from destruction. I also believe that that remnant talked of in the book of Revelation the 144000 made up of 12,000 from every tribe of Israel make up that remnant.

Revelation 14
The 144,000
1 Then I looked, and behold, a Lamb standing on Mount Zion, and with Him one hundred and forty-four thousand, having His Father's name written on their foreheads.

Joel 2:32
And it shall come to pass That whoever calls on the name of the LORD Shall be saved. For in Mount Zion and in Jerusalem there shall be deliverance, As the LORD has said, Among the remnant whom the LORD calls.

Isaiah 37:31,32
And the remnant who have escaped of the house of Judah Shall again take root downward, And bear fruit upward. For out of Jerusalem shall go a remnant, And those who escape from Mount Zion. The zeal of the LORD of hosts will do this.

( Lori see How the Book of Revelation links in with the both these OT prophets Joel and Isaiah as well as Zechariah all talk about the same day, the same Remnant and the same Mount Zion. Note how Isaiah says this remnant will bear fruit (i believe children)

revelation ch 20 says that these elect are beheaded...


4I saw thrones on which were seated those who had been given authority to judge. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded because of their testimony for Jesus and because of the word of God. They had not worshiped the beast or his image and had not received his mark on their foreheads or their hands. They came to life and reigned with Christ a thousand years. 5(The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were ended.) This is the first resurrection. 6Blessed and holy are those who have part in the first resurrection. The second death has no power over them, but they will be priests of God and of Christ and will reign with him for a thousand years.

Yes but these elect is Christians (true Christians) who will accept death before recieving the mark of the beast or worshiping the image of the beast. The 144.000 being innocents are not followers of Jesus nor do they need to be because they are innocent without sin needing no Redeemer for the sins they have never committed.

i also don't understand how sin would could or should be a part of the kingdom.

Well we shall not be sinning but we will be the only ones who will be fully part of the true eternal kingdom. The saints are getting a 1000 year early mark into eternity with God. God is giving the 144,000 and their descendants a 1000 year Sabbath after working with them for 6000 years.

During that 1000 years satan will be bound so sin i believe will be greatly decreased but sin and shows of rebellion will come up among the nations outside the 144,000.

In the same chapter of Zechariah the prophet reveals.

Zechariah 14
16 And it shall come to pass that everyone who is left of all the nations which came against Jerusalem shall go up from year to year to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, and to keep the Feast of Tabernacles. 17 And it shall be that whichever of the families of the earth do not come up to Jerusalem to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, on them there will be no rain. 18 If the family of Egypt will not come up and enter in, they shall have no rain; they shall receive the plague with which the LORD strikes the nations who do not come up to keep the Feast of Tabernacles. 19 This shall be the punishment of Egypt and the punishment of all the nations that do not come up to keep the Feast of Tabernacles.

So here we see that during the 1000 years the descendants of the survivors of the nations that followed the beast into battle against Jerusalem (battle of Armageddon ) will be required to come to Jerusalem every year and when they refuse they will have no rain and will suffer a plague. Tis is the same plague that He shall strike the army of the beast with in the battle of Armageddon.

These things are what most of the churches of this world today reject because they are not truly inspired by the Holy Spirit and therefore they cannot interpret how things are actually going to happen. They interpret things based on how they think things should happen.

All Praise The Ancient OF Days

 

[Lori_7]

Well are you surprised? i am not a member of any church. I hold no loyalty to any preacher on earth.



Lets face it. most of them think that when Jesus returns that’s the end of it. We all go to heaven and the rest go to hell. of course with this as a foundational belief all scriptures must be interpreted within this prison. I am not in that prison. I read th4e scriptures and they tell a different story.



The 144.000 are not martyred and they are not raptured. They are protected by God by His power. And no one will be able to touch these innocent little ones during the days of the Day of the Lord.



In the OT and in the Book of Revelation.

Ok hope you have patience this might be a long read for you. Lets look at the OT and the Prophet Zechariah

Zechariah 14
The Coming Day of the LORD
1 Behold, the day of the LORD is coming,
And your spoil will be divided in your midst.
2For I will gather all the nations to battle against Jerusalem;
The city shall be taken,
The houses rifled,
And the women ravished.
Half of the city shall go into captivity,
But the remnant of the people shall not be cut off from the city.


3Then the LORD will go forth
And fight against those nations,
As He fights in the day of battle.
4And in that day His feet will stand on the Mount of Olives,
Which faces Jerusalem on the east.
And the Mount of Olives shall be split in two,
From east to west,
Making a very large valley;
Half of the mountain shall move toward the north
And half of it toward the south.

5Then you shall flee through My mountain valley,
For the mountain valley shall reach to Azal.
Yes, you shall flee
As you fled from the earthquake
In the days of Uzziah king of Judah.


Thus the LORD my God will come,
And all the saints with You.

( Note it says He will be coming with all the saints That’s us not the remnant spoken of before We will be coming with the Lord After we have been ruptured to meet him upon His arrival.)


6It shall come to pass in that day
That there will be no light;
The lights will diminish.
7It shall be one day
Which is known to the LORD--
Neither day nor night.
But at evening time it shall happen
That it will be light.

(This reference to the day being darkened is in alignment with scriptures in the book of revelation revealing the same thing happening. I believe this will be caused by a meteor impact)


From this I can only believe that a remnant of those in Jerusalem and Israel will be saved from destruction. I also believe that that remnant talked of in the book of Revelation the 144000 made up of 12,000 from every tribe of Israel make up that remnant.

Revelation 14
The 144,000
1 Then I looked, and behold, a Lamb standing on Mount Zion, and with Him one hundred and forty-four thousand, having His Father's name written on their foreheads.

Joel 2:32
And it shall come to pass That whoever calls on the name of the LORD Shall be saved. For in Mount Zion and in Jerusalem there shall be deliverance, As the LORD has said, Among the remnant whom the LORD calls.

Isaiah 37:31,32
And the remnant who have escaped of the house of Judah Shall again take root downward, And bear fruit upward. For out of Jerusalem shall go a remnant, And those who escape from Mount Zion. The zeal of the LORD of hosts will do this.

( Lori see How the Book of Revelation links in with the both these OT prophets Joel and Isaiah as well as Zechariah all talk about the same day, the same Remnant and the same Mount Zion. Note how Isaiah says this remnant will bear fruit (i believe children)



Yes but these elect is Christians (true Christians) who will accept death before recieving the mark of the beast or worshiping the image of the beast. The 144.000 being innocents are not followers of Jesus nor do they need to be because they are innocent without sin needing no Redeemer for the sins they have never committed.





Well we shall not be sinning but we will be the only ones who will be fully part of the true eternal kingdom. The saints are getting a 1000 year early mark into eternity with God. God is giving the 144,000 and their descendants a 1000 year Sabbath after working with them for 6000 years.

During that 1000 years satan will be bound so sin i believe will be greatly decreased but sin and shows of rebellion will come up among the nations outside the 144,000.

In the same chapter of Zechariah the prophet reveals.

Zechariah 14
16 And it shall come to pass that everyone who is left of all the nations which came against Jerusalem shall go up from year to year to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, and to keep the Feast of Tabernacles. 17 And it shall be that whichever of the families of the earth do not come up to Jerusalem to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, on them there will be no rain. 18 If the family of Egypt will not come up and enter in, they shall have no rain; they shall receive the plague with which the LORD strikes the nations who do not come up to keep the Feast of Tabernacles. 19 This shall be the punishment of Egypt and the punishment of all the nations that do not come up to keep the Feast of Tabernacles.

So here we see that during the 1000 years the descendants of the survivors of the nations that followed the beast into battle against Jerusalem (battle of Armageddon ) will be required to come to Jerusalem every year and when they refuse they will have no rain and will suffer a plague. Tis is the same plague that He shall strike the army of the beast with in the battle of Armageddon.

These things are what most of the churches of this world today reject because they are not truly inspired by the Holy Spirit and therefore they cannot interpret how things are actually going to happen. They interpret things based on how they think things should happen.

All Praise The Ancient OF Days

well, god saying "bibbity bobbity boo" and everything magically being perfected is a lot easier to think about than what will actually happen.

i must admit that i'm disappointed. i've really wanted to believe that this world would be without sin in the 1000 years. i really really want it gone. but i've also known that it doesn't make sense to say that "he will rule them with an iron scepter and dash them to pieces like pottery". i know the new jerusalem has walls and i know there are some outside those walls.

so, we have 3 groups of people correct?

some who are raptured
some who are martyred
and a remnant

well 4 groups, because there is a remnant outside the 144,000.

and the raptured and the martyred will have resurrection bodies (immortal). and will reign with christ, the 144,000 are children of the kingdom, and the others we don't know about really.

 

[Lori_7]

adstar,

why do you think some will be raptured? i know there are different theories about the rapture, and one of those is that it's a misinterpretation.

 

[Lori_7]

this is an interesting psalm. it references "ruling with an iron scepter and dashing them to pieces like pottery" like the revelations scripture does...

Psalm 2: The World in Rebellion



1Why do the nations rage

and the peoples plot in vain?

2The kings of the earth take their stand

and the rulers gather together

against the LORD and against his Anointed One.

3"Let us break their chains," they say,

"and throw off their fetters."



4The One enthroned in heaven laughs;

the Lord scoffs at them.

5Then he rebukes them in his anger

and terrifies them in his wrath, saying,

6"I have installed my King on Zion, my holy hill."



7I will proclaim the decree of the LORD:

He said to me, "You are my Son;

today I have become your Father,

8Ask of me,

and I will make the nations your inheritance,

the ends of the earth your possession,

9You will rule them with an iron scepter;

you will dash them to pieces like pottery."



10Therefore, you kings, be wise;

be warned, you rulers of the earth.

11Serve the LORD with fear

and rejoice with trembling.

12Kiss the Son, lest he be angry

and you be destroyed in your way,

for his wrath can flare up in a moment.

Blessed are all who take refuge in him.

 

[spidergoat]

It means that the specialized combat robots will seek out all human life and destroy it, except those who possess a specially encrypted transmitter that renders them invisible to their sensors.

 

[Michael]

Thank Xenu, I actually just bought one of those transmitters on a buy one transmitter get a free Dietetics Theata reading for 1/2 price. I'm all good then, I get to live and not die Phew!

 

[Adstar]

adstar,

why do you think some will be raptured? i know there are different theories about the rapture, and one of those is that it's a misinterpretation.

Because there will be followers of Jesus still alive in their carnal sin flesh at the time of His second coming. Because they are true believers they need to be transformed into their Good eternal state to join with the resurected saints who are resurected at the same time.

So Dead saints will be resurected in their eternal good bodies And living saints (probably only a handfull by this time) will be transformed into the same eternal bodies in a twinkling of an eye.

Now most denominations that believe in rapture teach what is called a pre-tribulation rapture. They say that before the Anti-christ comes to power and starts the great persecution God will rapture Christians and they will be in heaven for the 7 years of the great tribulation. This is not supported by scripture, it is an escapist doctrine, it's popularity is understandable because most people don't want to suffer persecution or end up being beheaded for believing Jesus. But scripture is clear that the rapture happens at the final trumpet spoken of in Revelation the 7th trumpet.


All Praise The Ancient Of Days

 

[Adstar]

this is an interesting psalm. it references "ruling with an iron scepter and dashing them to pieces like pottery" like the revelations scripture does...

Psalm 2: The World in Rebellion



1Why do the nations rage

and the peoples plot in vain?

2The kings of the earth take their stand

and the rulers gather together

against the LORD and against his Anointed One.

3"Let us break their chains," they say,

"and throw off their fetters."



4The One enthroned in heaven laughs;

the Lord scoffs at them.

5Then he rebukes them in his anger

and terrifies them in his wrath, saying,

6"I have installed my King on Zion, my holy hill."



7I will proclaim the decree of the LORD:

He said to me, "You are my Son;

today I have become your Father,

8Ask of me,

and I will make the nations your inheritance,

the ends of the earth your possession,

9You will rule them with an iron scepter;

you will dash them to pieces like pottery."



10Therefore, you kings, be wise;

be warned, you rulers of the earth.

11Serve the LORD with fear

and rejoice with trembling.

12Kiss the Son, lest he be angry

and you be destroyed in your way,

for his wrath can flare up in a moment.

Blessed are all who take refuge in him.

Good scriptures Lori. But it may be that this is a referance to the final satanic rebellion that happens 1000 years after the return of the Messiah.

verse 6 says

6"I have installed my King on Zion, my holy hill."

So this verse seems to indicate that at the time of the nations plotting The King of Kings/ Jesus will be established in His kingdom already.

The only time a rebellion will take place against The kingdom will be at the end of the 1000 years.


All Praise The Ancient Of Days

 

[nietzschefan]

Adstar you are so fuckin arrogant it should be criminal.

 

[Chipz]

I second nietzchefan. Primarily Adstar's understanding of the context in which Zechariah happened seems to be so divergent from reality that it's as if...he's...making it up.

 

[Lori_7]

Adstar you are so fuckin arrogant it should be criminal.

I second nietzchefan. Primarily Adstar's understanding of the context in which Zechariah happened seems to be so divergent from reality that it's as if...he's...making it up.

i think he's being helpful. i'm asking for opinions and he's giving me his own.

chipz, what reality are you referring to? historical...modern day? what is your own understanding of the scripture in zechariah?