Mass *has* gravity

I have no interest in proving you wrong about my studies or about my ability to derive a zero point solution.

One thing I will prove you wrong about if you care to get into it is my understanding of QWC. You have to admit that if QWC is the way things work and that there is a unifying force, all the models you suggest you have read and all the derivations you probably would claim to be able to do wouldn't be worth jack.
 
Last edited:
quantum_wave said:
I have no interest in proving you wrong about my studies or about my ability to derive a zero point solution.

One thing I will prove you wrong about if you care to get into it is my understanding of QWC. You have to admit that if QWC is the way things work and that there is a unifying force, all the models you suggest you have read and all the derivations you probably would claim to be able to do wouldn't be worth jack.
Click to expand...


He has a pickle with me. Not you. So don't worry about it.
 
Quantum Wave Cosmology predicts a multiverse where our expanding universe occupies one insignificant arena in an infinite landscape of arenas each playing out through the process of accumulation, big crunch, burst and expansion.

The colsmolgical principle remains in tact because that greater universe is homogeneous and isotropic meaning that it looks generally the same no matter where you are in it, and there is no edge or center.

In QWC, the thing that stops the entire greater universe from collapsing into one infinte big crunch is the law of critical capacity. Once a big crunch reaches critical capacity the seeds of self destruction are sown and the outcome is that the crunch will burst into an energy density fluctuation characterized by a spherical quantum wave that will carry all of the energy contained in the crunch into spherical expansion.

Since only a finite amount of mass can accumulate in a big crunch before it bursts, the greater universe consists of a potentially infinite number of active arenas at any give time.

That is why in QWC the cosmological constant is 1 which in terms of general relativity and BBT makes the greater universe perfectly flat.

However, each arena has an energy density of its own relative to the average energy density of the greater universe. An expanding arena has a positive lambda, i.e. the local vacuum energy (cosmological constant) causes expansion until the energy density of the arena equalizes with the energy density of the greater universe. An arena that is forming out there in the greater universe will have a negative lambda and the gravity will overcome the vacuum energy and the arena will collapse into a big crunch.

In QWC the landscape of the greater universe demonstrates that entropy is defeated by the existence of the law of critial capacity combined with the quantum nature of mass and gravity. When mass exists it has gravity, and when the core of a big crunch reaches critical capacity it transforms mass into energy, locks down quantum action, mass ceases to function, gravity stops, and potential burst energy builds in the core until it exceeds the diminishing gravitational force of the big crunch and the crunch bursts.

The will be no Big Rip.
 
Last edited:
quantum_wave said:
For talking purposes the time involved in one quantum action is 10^-50 seconds.
Click to expand...
Now I don't really want to get into the ins and outs of your theory, but I would like to know how you arrived at the above result. I notice that you didn't say 10^{-51}, or 3.288x10^{-49} or some other number, and obviously you haven't pulled it out of thin air. So what was it that made you arrive at your conclusion?

Thanks. :)
 
Guest254 said:
Now I don't really want to get into the ins and outs of your theory, but I would like to know how you arrived at the above result. I notice that you didn't say 10^{-51}, or 3.288x10^{-49} or some other number, and obviously you haven't pulled it out of thin air. So what was it that made you arrive at your conclusion?

Thanks. :)
Click to expand...
It is an increment of time smaller than plank time to point out that the incompatibility between GR and quantum mechanics will be resolved in favor of quantum mechanics. GR cannot deal with gravity that operates at the level of quantum action.

QWC operates at speeds faster than plank time and in energy increments much smaller than any fundamental particle.

But as the post said, it is just for talking purposes because QWC is speculation. That is why it is here in pseudoscience.
 
Last edited:
quantum_wave said:
It is an increment of time smaller than plank time to point out that the incompatibility between GR and quantum mechanics will be resolved in favor of quantum mechanics. GR cannot deal with gravity that operates at the level of quantum action.
Click to expand...
Yes, but there are infinitely many numbers smaller in size than the Planck time, 10^{-100} is one such number. What is the reason for your use of 10^{-50}, and not 10^{-100} for instance? I only ask because your statement is quantitative, so I was curious as to how you arrived at your conclusion.

Thanks! :)
 
Other than the explanation given no rigor was put into it. QWC is not science and there will be very few numbers until the actual mechanics can be visualized.

Visualizing a quantum action that continually produces spherical waves of energy seems to be a possible solution. In order to work, quantum action would produce a net zero wave that has a trough and a crest and that expands spherically.

The net zero becomes a negative value when some of the positive energy is contained in subsequent crests with high energy density, i.e. delayed relative to the wave trough which has low energy density. Then the spherical wave would cause a low energy density spherical wave front and a delayed high energy density wave crest as it travels and expands spherically.

The inverse square law applies to the net negative emission from mass. The net negative emission is continual as long as the, say 10^-50 or some repetitive pulse pace is maintained to delay the crest relative to the trough.

I'll give you another number to try to put the scale of quantum action into perspective. Trillions of quantum waves would have to be perpetually renewing themselves to form a proton for example. The relationship between the surface of a proton (area) and the volume of the proton (cubic units) (Area/Volume = (4 pi r2)/(4/3 pi r3) = 3/r) combined with the known 1836 to 1 relationship between the energy of a proton vs. the energy of an electron for example can be used to derive a number in the trillions (depending on the physical space occupied by a wave crest intersection :)) for the number of continual quantum actions necessary every Planck time (or fraction thereof) to maintain the mass of the proton. Yikes.

The gravity of a mass would be the net negative value that the delay produces and would increase as the energy density of the mass increases. The idea has some potential for keeping me entertained for awhile just in visualizing the whole process. And of course I have to go it alone because anyone who could help recognizes the shit potential. But it is free and I have the time and the interest.

It is easy to talk about but hard to visualize to the degree that it can be defined mathematically.

One thing that seems to offer potential in that regard is an energy background that carries the spherical waves and there are so many waves crossing the background that the background is filled with a pattern of wave intersections in three dimensions. Each intersection represents an energy density and the density fluctuates. The fluctuations are perpetuated by quantum action and so the energy background is filled with tiny wave intersections that are actually energy density fluctuations.

I mentioned earlier how wavelets can combine to build "rogue" waves. In order for quantum action to occur, rogue waves in the energy background would have to form and collapse with regularity. The collapse would initiate another wave and the background pattern would be re-energized by continual quantum action.

Such a model would mathematically describe quantum action so that the high energy density crests form mass, and the collapse of the crest into a trough causes gravity. Without a delay between the trough and the crest the wave would have a net zero value and could produce no work.

My visualization mentality gets in overload when I think about it too much.

When I start giving you the math you'll know that I think I have something.
 
Last edited:
No, I chose it because it was smaller than Planck time to show that in my opinion the incompatibility between General Relativity and quantum mechanics favored QM like I said.

QM (when the LHC finds the Higgs boson) has gravity working at the energy quanta level and in QWC that is below Planck length and time. Just so you don't get the wrong idea about why I used -50.
 
quantum_wave said:
No, I chose it because it was smaller than Planck time to show that in my opinion the incompatibility between General Relativity and quantum mechanics favored QM like I said.
Click to expand...
Sorry, I'm still confused! I just wanted to know where the 10^{-50} came from in the following statement:
quantum_wave said:
the time involved in one quantum action is 10^-50 seconds.
Click to expand...
I understand you want to use that number because it's smaller than the Planck time. I just wanted to know it was that number in particular!
 
Guest254 said:
Sorry, I'm still confused!
Click to expand...
How can that be confusing?
I just wanted to know where the 10^{-50} came from in the following statement:

I understand you want to use that number because it's smaller than the Planck time. I just wanted to know it was that number in particular!
Click to expand...
Thanks for your interest in my peculiar number.

If it was that number in particular that would imply some pretty detailed math and science. 10^-50 is quite a bit smaller than Planck time wouldn't you agree. Just enough smaller to imply that the quantum effects that operate in my imagined QWC are below the level that particle physicists are talking. It appears to be below the design range of the LHC for that matter so though Sean Carroll predicts a 95% chance of finding the Higgs boson, personally I think the operative force at the heart of QM operates in much smaller increments. Just an opinion and not an invitation to anyone to point out that I'm without cloths on this topic.
 
OK, so my Mass has gravity idea isn’t catching on :(. No big deal. It’s not only speculation, but since it doesn’t need the fabric of spacetime to be warped by mass and it doesn’t need Inflation, let alone eternal inflation of de Sitter space, and not needing those n-spheres or Cauchy surfaces within hyperspace makes it unimaginable relative to inflationary mathematical models that comply with General Relativity. Go figure, QWC is really way out there.

I also admit it is pretty hard to sell an idea of quantum waves that work as both the cause of mass and the cause of gravity, let alone an energy background that isn’t detectable because it is simply energy density fluctuations that are so small and changing so fast that they go in mass and out of mass and participate in the mass and the gravity of the mass as mass passes through; you’re smirking aren’t you.

Well since I haven’t gotten much interest in simple QWC, how about if it is a “cold start” cosmology? Since it has mass becoming too dense to function (at the core of a big crunch) which then stops gravity from said mass, by the time the core builds up enough potential energy in locked quantum action to overcome the remaining gravitational force of the outer crunch, much of the heat associated with the event has been absorbed and locked with the other energy in the core. Hence, the temperature of the event would be much less than that of Hot Big Bang models.

What about the ~2.7 K cosmic background radiation? If the burst is a cool event, where did that temperature come from? Some is from the greater universe that has always existed and that surrounded the big crunch, and some is the heating up of the background by a round of huge fast burning hydrogen stars followed by a thermalization period before metallic stars and galaxies formed.

Oh my gosh, more reasons to put QWC out in left field. But I’m having fun out here being full of $&!t and playing with my cosmology. At least I’m willing to share it.
 
If you can accept that there is a single fundamental force behind everything, and that is a big IF, then you can accept that at that fundamental level, i.e. the smallest level of order where that force operates, there is a measurable increment of length that is the smallest possible measurable length. On the same basis you can also accept that at that fundamental level there is a smallest increment of time because it is a measure of the shortest possible measurable time.

A quantum of energy in QWC is the tiniest amount of energy that can have any noticeable physical impact. If you read that carefully you can see that I anticipate that a level of order smaller than the quantum of energy is necessary in order to support the existence of the quantum of energy. I acknowledge that fact and to enable a quantum of energy to exist I refer to the existence of sub-quanta, or fractional amounts of energy whose only ability is to become part of the quantum energy increment, i.e. a part of the physical world.

In QWC, anything physical refers to the quantum of energy and quantum action, while the sub-quanta world operates at a level below that where nothing physical is taking place, by definition. That sub-quanta world is referred to in QWC as the energy background. The energy background cannot directly affect the physical world; its only role is to support the force that enables the physical world.

So in QWC, the energy quantum is made of up energy sub-quanta. Reference to the sub-quanta is a convention, a convenience for talking purposes, because the real world at the sub-quantum level is an intense interaction of energy in infinitesimal increments that would seem chaotic at any point in space at sub-quanta levels, but that has an order to it based solely on unobservable physics.

We don’t know what those physics are at that level but the physics of QWC includes some ideas of what that physics would have to be like to enable the observable universe.
 
Ok, I've now really made the effort to read over your replies, and I still don't see where on earth the number 10^{-50} comes from! Perhaps it's easier if I ask the related question:

Why isn't it $$3.877326 \times 10^{-1158}$$?

Sorry to be a pain. I think perhaps I'll understand why it must 10^{-50} if I can understand why it can't be anything else!

:)
 
Guest254 said:
Ok, I've now really made the effort to read over your replies, and I still don't see where on earth the number 10^{-50} comes from! Perhaps it's easier if I ask the related question:

Why isn't it $$3.877326 \times 10^{-1158}$$?

Sorry to be a pain. I think perhaps I'll understand why it must 10^{-50} if I can understand why it can't be anything else!

:)
Click to expand...
I have to acknowledge that it could be. QWC is speculation about a force that makes energy do work. What the dimensions are I don't know but the math is Euclidian in QWC and curved space is the effect of spherical waves and not spacetime.

I mentioned that in another thread. "Objects move through space as if space was curved by mass. But if gravity reaches across space to affect distant objects, those objects would also move as if space was curved because gravity travels at a finite speed of light and by the time it reaches and effects distant objects, the source object has changed location.

This results in a curved effect between observed objects caused by gravity waves that travel as expanding spherical waves. The wave reaches the object and gives it a little tug toward the location that the first object occupied when the wave was emitted. An instant later the next wave reaches the object and gives it a little tug toward a slightly different location that was occupied by the first object as the second wave was emitted an instant after the first wave. Follow this procedure over time and you will get a curved movement of objects due to their relative movement and the propagation speed of spherical gravity waves, not due to the warped fabric of spacetime."

The EFEs are the math of the effect of gravity, and not the cause.
 
Introduction to the Energy Background

If you can accept that there is a single fundamental force behind everything, and that is a big IF, then you can accept that at that fundamental level, i.e. the smallest level of order where that force operates, there is a measurable increment of length that is the smallest possible measurable length. On the same basis you can also accept that at that fundamental level there is a smallest increment of time because it is a measure of the shortest possible measurable time. These are not the smallest things or the shortest times, but the smaller things and the shorter times are beyond measurement.

In QWC, the point where our ability to measure has reached a limit in the infinitesimal quantum realm is called the fundamental quantum level. We can’t measure at that level yet, but conceptually, to measure below that level would be a greater advancement than the advancement now needed to reach the milestone where we can “observe” and measure at the quantum level.

Therefore a quantum of energy in QWC is the tiniest amount of energy that can have any “noticeable” physical impact. If you read that carefully you can see that I anticipate that a level of order smaller than the quantum of energy is necessary in order to support the existence of the quantum level. I acknowledge that fact, and to enable a quantum of energy to exist I refer to the existence of sub-quanta, or fractional amounts of energy whose only ability is to become part of the smallest increment of energy that can have a noticeable or meaningful impact on what we recognize as the physical world.

In QWC, anything physical refers to the quantum level of energy and quantum action at that level, while the sub-quanta world operates at a level below that, i.e. quantum wave intersections smaller than the quantum of energy are simply tiny energy density fluctuations too small to be observed and individually too insignificant to be measurable.

That sub-quanta world is referred to in QWC as the energy background. The energy background cannot directly affect the physical world; its only role is to support the force that enables the physical world, i.e. the quantum energy increment that contains the quantum of energy and causes quantum action. Quantum action perpetuates the energy density fluctuations that exist in the background.

So in QWC, the energy quantum is made up of energy sub-quanta which are wave ripples in the background. Reference to the sub-quanta is a reference to the tiny energy density fluctuations caused by those expanding and intersecting spherical ripples. The sub-quantum level is an intense interaction of energy in infinitesimal increments that would seem chaotic at any point in space at sub-quanta levels, but that has an order to it that makes it homogeneous and isotropic.

When a quantum wave appears it is akin to a rogue ocean wave that is made up of a significant number of wavelets. The ocean surface wavelets are the energy background equivalent of sub-quanta “ripples”. Energy density determines the frequency of the quantum waves that appear from the background. Frequency in this sense is the number of occurrences within a given space in a given time and is not exactly the same thing as electromagnetic wave frequency (hf).
 
Last edited:
This still isn't making any sense to me, I'm afraid! Can you just tell me what rationale you used to give the precise result 10^{-50}!?!? If you've literally just picked any old number that happens to be smaller than the Planck time, then fair enough. But please don't have me read lots and lots and lots more stuff that dances around the question!

:)
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top