Masculinity and men
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That poll is not valid and several people have told you that. It is no use using that as evidence.spuriousmonkey said:
Anomalous had a poll wanting to have my threads closed and I think 3 people answered yes and 2 no --- he generated a figure of 62%.
Does that mean that 62% of sciforum members would like my threads to be closed, I doubt it!
These polls only attract people who want to prove or disprove a particular theory. It it could be used as an evidence we don't need any science. Just ask people around.
Peer pressure is only part of the problem!leopold99 said:
When I discussed the reasons why the poll is not valid giving examples from my counseling sessions, none of you discussed that. In fact in one case you yourself agreed that polls will not work.
Now why use that poll as proof, when you chose not to answer my reservations to that poll in that thread. What kind of an offensive discussion strategy is that?
Why do you think you lot can get away with without having to answer my points and then raise the same issue again and again after brief intervals, at other threads.
Seeing the spate of troll lately, I have a deep suspicion that the vested interested group does not want me to talk about sex with men/ women and their respective masculine value --- because obviously it will be the biggest blow on the power base of the heterosexuality if I can show heterosexuality to be not masculine. And if I proved it feminine, all hell will let lose! 
Now we come to the most important questions. The crux of mascuilnity. Sex with women. And the crux of social femininity --- sexual desire for men. I think for the purpose of this discussion, we must make a difference between a sexual desire and a need to form sexual/ emotional intimacy.
So are the following masculine or feminine?
- Sex with women?
- Sex with men?
- Sexual intimacy with men?
- sexual intimacy with women?
So are the following masculine or feminine?
- Sex with women?
- Sex with men?
- Sexual intimacy with men?
- sexual intimacy with women?
EXAMINING SEX AND RELATIONSHIPS WITH MEN AND WOMEN FOR THEIR MASCULINITY VALUE
As per my analysis, the sexual act by itself --- whether with a man or a woman is not masculine or feminine. It depends on the person --- if the person is masculine the act of sex whether with the man or woman will be masculine. If the person is feminine the at of sex with the man or woman will be feminine.
Masculinity here should not be confused with aggressiveness. Love making is passionate.
Masculinity should also not be confused with the act of penetration whcih has a high 'social masculinilty' value.
As per my analysis, the sexual act by itself --- whether with a man or a woman is not masculine or feminine. It depends on the person --- if the person is masculine the act of sex whether with the man or woman will be masculine. If the person is feminine the at of sex with the man or woman will be feminine.
Masculinity here should not be confused with aggressiveness. Love making is passionate.
Masculinity should also not be confused with the act of penetration whcih has a high 'social masculinilty' value.
Of special interest should be being fucked anally by a man, or giving oral sex to a man or a woman.
Are these acts feminine as the society makes them out to be.
I know because of its compulsions, the heterosexual society portrays giving oral to women as 'masculine' but comeon tradionally it has been a feminine trait.
So what is their intrinsic or natural masculinity/ femininity value?
Are these acts feminine as the society makes them out to be.
I know because of its compulsions, the heterosexual society portrays giving oral to women as 'masculine' but comeon tradionally it has been a feminine trait.
So what is their intrinsic or natural masculinity/ femininity value?
IS RECEPTIVE ANAL INTERCOURSE A NATURALLY FEMININE ACT/ DESIRE?
the act of being penetrated is linked with feminine gendered males (gays of our times) since a long time now. Even before Christianity came. Even in the times of the ancient Greeks who celebrated sex with men otherwise (they are supposed to have encouraged male sex between masculine gendered men (straights of today) that invovled thigh 'fucking'.
In fact the act of 'being fucked' has been denigrated for long along with femininity in males, with which it has been associated. In the modern times the association goes like: desire for other men = desire for getting fucked = femininity.
It would be interesting to look at the history of denigration through feminisation of the act of being anally penetrated.
SO THE QUESTION IS:
IS THE ACT OR DESIRE OF BEING PENETRATED NATURALLY FEMININE OR IS IT PART OF SOCIAL FEMININITY?
O.K. let's talk about this:Buddha1 said:
the act of being penetrated is linked with feminine gendered males (gays of our times) since a long time now. Even before Christianity came. Even in the times of the ancient Greeks who celebrated sex with men otherwise (they are supposed to have encouraged male sex between masculine gendered men (straights of today) that invovled thigh 'fucking'.
In fact the act of 'being fucked' has been denigrated for long along with femininity in males, with which it has been associated. In the modern times the association goes like: desire for other men = desire for getting fucked = femininity.
It would be interesting to look at the history of denigration through feminisation of the act of being anally penetrated.
SO THE QUESTION IS:
IS THE ACT OR DESIRE OF BEING PENETRATED NATURALLY FEMININE OR IS IT PART OF SOCIAL FEMININITY?
Ophiolite
Valued Senior Member
I think I have just had an insight. Re-read the last half dozen posts from Bhudda1. Do you see the common thread?
He perceives sex as something you do to someone or that someone does to you. He does not see it as something two people do together. Yet it is precisely in the context of such a pairing that the masculine or feminine aspects will be evident. You cannot define masculine in isolation, which is exactly what Bhudda1 is trying to do.
Earlier, or in another thread, I suggested that Bhudda1 viewed women as being of a lower order. I know suspect he views all people in that way, hence this take on sex as being something you do to someone. That rather suggests arrested development.
Light - is my amateur psychology crap, or not?
He perceives sex as something you do to someone or that someone does to you. He does not see it as something two people do together. Yet it is precisely in the context of such a pairing that the masculine or feminine aspects will be evident. You cannot define masculine in isolation, which is exactly what Bhudda1 is trying to do.
Earlier, or in another thread, I suggested that Bhudda1 viewed women as being of a lower order. I know suspect he views all people in that way, hence this take on sex as being something you do to someone. That rather suggests arrested development.
Light - is my amateur psychology crap, or not?
If you haven't figured that yet, I'm studying social concepts for their masculinity or femininity values.
Because this is what constitute as pressures on men.
And just because you say I'm anti-woman I don't become anti-woman. I just don't agree with the kind of roles that the modern society has set up for women, that leads her away from nature and puts her unfairly in an exploitative situation vis.a.vis men.
Because this is what constitute as pressures on men.
And just because you say I'm anti-woman I don't become anti-woman. I just don't agree with the kind of roles that the modern society has set up for women, that leads her away from nature and puts her unfairly in an exploitative situation vis.a.vis men.
So you want women in the kitchen?
That's what I said, but I am the vested heterosexual interest group hence I cannot be trusted.
O.K. I agree for the time being that the act of having any kind of sex is not 'feminine' in itself.
That includes getting anally fucked --- a highly denigrated act for men.
But I know that most men who are interested in anal intercourse will accept only an exclusive interest in being the 'active' partner, but never the 'passive' partner even if they enjoy it.
That is because, there is a strong stigma attached to the act of being fucked, the same that has been attached to the very desire for another man in a heterosexual society.
In the traditional society, a man however much he may like receptive anal intercourse will never accept it, even if you conducted an anonymous poll. Of course he will never allow himself to be fucked (unless in special circumstances where he will feign any interest in the act!).
Just like in the heterosexual society the man will deny having any sexual interest at all, even if he secretly has that interest, and he will not accept it even in an anonymous poll because the thing has extreme psychological stigma associated with it.
In ancient times --- even in the times of the Greeks, the act of being fucked was associated with feminne gendered 'soft' males, whereas most of the masculine gendered men had sex with each other --- they were suppsoed to thigh fuck each other.
The heterosxual society adopted the same strategy to marginalise same sex behaviour. It equated a desire for men as intricately being linked to 'anal intercourse' which already was strongly associated with the feminine gendered 'soft' men that was a great dishonour for men to be associated with.
In the ancient days, the kings who conquered an army used to treat their prisoners like this --- to dishonour them by fucking them anally. In fact in many cultures it was justified for someone to kill someone if he accused him of being someone who gets fucked anally.
However, as discussed earlier, there is nothing anatomical in the feminne gendered males that makes the anal area more plearsurable to them than to the masculine gendered males. The stigma and distaste associated with it are just social.
I have known several cases where men enjoy and have receptive anal but will never accept that he enjoyed it, and in fact always pretend that he is just doing it as a favour to the other guy --- and there are several cases where the feminine gendered male acts as the 'active' partner while the masculine gendered male does the 'passive' role in private.
Similarly, in traditional societies, a man giving oral to a woman will be thought of as a wimp.
That includes getting anally fucked --- a highly denigrated act for men.
But I know that most men who are interested in anal intercourse will accept only an exclusive interest in being the 'active' partner, but never the 'passive' partner even if they enjoy it.
That is because, there is a strong stigma attached to the act of being fucked, the same that has been attached to the very desire for another man in a heterosexual society.
In the traditional society, a man however much he may like receptive anal intercourse will never accept it, even if you conducted an anonymous poll. Of course he will never allow himself to be fucked (unless in special circumstances where he will feign any interest in the act!).
Just like in the heterosexual society the man will deny having any sexual interest at all, even if he secretly has that interest, and he will not accept it even in an anonymous poll because the thing has extreme psychological stigma associated with it.
In ancient times --- even in the times of the Greeks, the act of being fucked was associated with feminne gendered 'soft' males, whereas most of the masculine gendered men had sex with each other --- they were suppsoed to thigh fuck each other.
The heterosxual society adopted the same strategy to marginalise same sex behaviour. It equated a desire for men as intricately being linked to 'anal intercourse' which already was strongly associated with the feminine gendered 'soft' men that was a great dishonour for men to be associated with.
In the ancient days, the kings who conquered an army used to treat their prisoners like this --- to dishonour them by fucking them anally. In fact in many cultures it was justified for someone to kill someone if he accused him of being someone who gets fucked anally.
However, as discussed earlier, there is nothing anatomical in the feminne gendered males that makes the anal area more plearsurable to them than to the masculine gendered males. The stigma and distaste associated with it are just social.
I have known several cases where men enjoy and have receptive anal but will never accept that he enjoyed it, and in fact always pretend that he is just doing it as a favour to the other guy --- and there are several cases where the feminine gendered male acts as the 'active' partner while the masculine gendered male does the 'passive' role in private.
Similarly, in traditional societies, a man giving oral to a woman will be thought of as a wimp.
why don't you just fuck off. You are such a bore.
Now let's come to the issue of relationships with women --- and a desire or capacity to form emotional intimacies with women, which is so important for any long or short term relationship.
Is a desire for emotional-sexual intimacy with a woman a masculine/ feminine/ neutral trait?
Is a desire for emotional-sexual intimacy with a man a masculine/ feminine/ neutral trait?
Anyone?
Is a desire for emotional-sexual intimacy with a woman a masculine/ feminine/ neutral trait?
Is a desire for emotional-sexual intimacy with a man a masculine/ feminine/ neutral trait?
Anyone?
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