Man Beheads Wife in 'Honor' Killing

[jessiej920]

My bad. I'm gonna have to read up on stuff that happened decades ago instead of reading about what just happened.

Ummm, do I need to wear a mask if I join in this hi-jacking??

Yes. Ski masks and machetes. and make sure you also bring your metaphorical 'earplugs' for when the stereotypical ranting gets too obnoxious.

 

[GeoffP]

Jessie's right. This thread is way off track.

 

[S.A.M.]

Then unrecord it and play me some.

Into what? The ground? Tazmania has nothing to do with this.

Jessie's right. This thread is way off track.

Whats this? What track? An OP based on media speculation? But we're not discussing why the media has an inordinate interest in Muslims and connects everything to their religion are we? No, we're discussing whether media speculation is a basis for excusing crime by Muslims who have not even said or done what the media has speculated, forget about being excused for it.

Just look at the objective and concerned jessiej920's questions:

I just read a news article in which a Muslim man from Pakistan, currently living and making a living in America, brutally beheaded his wife at their place of work, claiming it was an 'honor' killing. His reason for this 'honor' killing: She served him divorce papers.

His current defense, the media says, is that because 'honor' killing is a cultural belief and practice he should not be charged with murder.

What do people think of this? Please discuss respectfully as possible and attempt to not be racist.

Links to article:

http://www.wkbw.com/news/local/39825477.html

http://www.buffalonews.com/494/story/578644.html

Despite all this, what I am trying to get at is what people think of this man's defense against the murder of his wife?

Whether honor killing is a cultural practice or not, in America, murder of any kind is against the law. Should he not be prosecuted according to the laws of the country he is currently residing in?

Based on her linked articles:

One:

As Muzzammil Hassan arrived in Orchard Park for his court appearance security was extremely tight. There were extra police officers on hand, along with a K-9 unit, and everyone heading into court was searched. Hassan is accused of stabbing and beheading his wife, 37 year old Aasiya Hassan at the Bridges television station in Orchard Park Thursday night.

It's a crime some have dubbed, an honor killing, tied to the couples muslim faith. It's a notion Hassan's attorney says is insulting. "These questions about culture and religion, I think are very inappropriate. I think the media would be better served to let that go," said defense attorney Jim Harrington.

Nadia Shahram was an attorney for the Bridges station and says the couple was in the midst of a divorce. She says it is a shameful thing in the muslim religion. But she believes the death was not linked to faith but to what she claims is the couples history of domestic violence.

Hassan's case will presented to a grand jury. He will likely face 2nd degree murder charges. If convicted he faces 15 years to life in prison.

Two:

Orchard Park police are investigating a particularly gruesome killing, the beheading of a woman, after her husband — an influential member of the local Muslim community — reported her death to police Thursday.

Police identified the victim as Aasiya Z. Hassan, 37. Detectives have charged her husband, Muzzammil Hassan, 44, with second-degree murder.

"He came to the police station at 6:20 p.m. [Thursday] and told us that she was dead," Orchard Park Police Chief Andrew Benz said late this morning.

Muzzammil Hassan told police that his wife was at his business, Bridges TV, on Thorn Avenue in the village. Officers went to that location and discovered her body.

Muzzammil Hassan is the founder and chief executive officer of Bridges TV, which he launched in 2004, amid hopes that it would help portray Muslims in a more positive light.

The killing apparently occurred some time late Thursday afternoon. Detectives still are looking for the murder weapon.

"Obviously, this is the worst form of domestic violence possible," Erie County District Attorney Frank A. Sedita III said today.

Authorities say Aasiya Hassan recently had filed for divorce from her husband.

"She had an order of protection that had him out of the home as of Friday the 6th [of February]," Benz said.

Muzzammil Hassan was arraigned before Village Justice Deborah Chimes and sent to the Erie County Holding Center.

What connection do you see between her questions and the articles linked?

And just for kicks, copernicus addressed this early on the debate and was ignored by the oh-so-concerned jessiej920

 

[S.A.M.]

None of us care much what is or is not supposedly allowed in Islam. We are talking about real life Muslims.
Exactly. So you see that this: is answered. And other armed groups of slaves had "begun to desire a better life" in other places, such as the gladiators in Rome, so that most slaveowners restricted their properties' access to weapons for good reason.

Not the same definition of a better life, apparently. The Jannisars for greater political power or better pay, the gladiators against being used for sport.

Sure, given the chance. But Vikings among others traded slaves to the Mediterranean.
Because slaves are different from prisoners.

Maybe in the western world.

So what was it that you read? First it's come up.

Apparently you have a good deal invested in a picture of the world in which Europeans have always considered all slaves to be subhuman. That's a bit odd.

Not at all. Torture for the sake of torture is a common theme in European treatment of all those different in them.

Stuff like this:

in 1899 thousands of other open minded Americans--men, women and children--in the US state of Georgia would assemble in the town of Newman to watch the hanging of African American Sam Hose. When eight-months-pregnant African American Mary Turner learned that her husband met his end in similar circumstances, she protested to the authorities. Her reward? She was hung upside down from a tree and while still alive, members of the crowd cut open her abdomen and the tiny infant fell to the ground. As hundreds of bullets were fired into her body, someone from the crowd stepped forward and crushed the infant's head as the onlookers cheered.

http://books.google.com/books?id=RJMeZimRwn0C&pg=PA97&dq=mary+turner+straw+dogs

Its why stuff like kicking around heads in Iraq, beating to death in Gitmo, collecting skulls in Japan, ears in Vietnam etc appears to be so passionate an enterprise even now.

In your example, you describe Muslims capturing slaves from Africa to do work which is demeaning to those Muslims. Was it also demeaning to the captured Africans? Why or why not?

They were also Muslims, but were poor. Its a class issue, like Americans preferring illegal immigrants for mowing lawns and picking up garbage. Most of the Zanj were Arab descendents of Bantus, though historians have said that the Zanj rebellion did not involve only the Zanj people but slaves across the Muslim empire.

As the plantation economy boomed and the Arabic people became richer, agriculture and other manual labor jobs were thought to be demeaning. The resulting labor shortage led to an increased slave market.

It is certain that large numbers of slaves were exported from eastern Africa; the best evidence for this is the magnitude of the Zanj revolt in Iraq in the 9th century, though not all of the slaves involved were Zanj. There is little evidence of what part of eastern Africa the Zanj came from, for the name is here evidently used in its general sense, rather than to designate the particular stretch of the coast, from about 3°N. to 5°S., to which the name was also applied.[2].

The Zanj were needed to take care of:

the Tigris-Euphrates delta, which had become abandoned marshland as a result of peasant migration and repeated flooding, [which] could be reclaimed through intensive labor. Wealthy proprietors “had received extensive grants of tidal land on the condition that they would make it arable." Sugar cane was prominent among the products of their plantations, particularly in Khūzestān Province. Zanj also worked the salt mines of Mesopotamia, especially around Basra.[3]

Their jobs were to clear away the nitrous top soil that made the land arable. The working conditions were also considered to be extremely miserable. Many other people were imported into the region besides Zanj.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zanj_Rebellion

The Western world is full of descendents of assimilated slaves, with the solitary exception of the Africans enslaved for the plantation colonies in the Americas. That is indeed a national wound, but not in all the West, or even in all the Americas. It stands out as a unique circumstance, as unlike other Western slavery as it is unlike Islamic world slavery. The differences are well worth studying. But we were speaking of slavery in general.

???

You forget the treatment of Jews, the treatment of South Americans, the Inuit, the native Americans, the native Australians, the Tasmanians, the Africans, the South Africans, the Indians, the Chinese, the Indonesians, etc. They were all used as slaves/forced servitude/indentured labour whatever you want to call it. They were also all prisoners of war or occupation.

The Islamic world shows little sign of having assimilated its African or Caucasian slaves, btw. Looking around, it's difficult to find their descendents. Where we find green eyes and light hair, we find it where armies of Caucasians went, not where Caucasian slaves were numerous, for example.

Thats why its called assimilation.

Iraq for example, where the Zanj rebellion occured:

Iraq clusters with the other Middle Eastern populations, and together with Iran, occupies a central position among Arabia, Caucasus, and Europe. The first component separates Arabia from the others, mainly from Europe and Caucasus, being the Arabia characterized by a substantial presence of African haplogroups and a high frequency of haplogroup pre-HV, whereas Europe and Caucasus lack the African components and harbor a high frequency of haplogroup H.

http://www.sciencedirect.com/scienc...id=29441&md5=6338fc26f3700977951bda5b639883ca

 

[jessiej920]

*earplugs in*

SAM, you win. You not only have brought the machetes and ski masks, but the obnoxious ranting too. Congrats, you have sucessfully hijacked my thread! Cheers! Beers all around.

 

[leopold]

Not at all. Torture for the sake of torture is a common theme in European treatment of all those different in them.

muslims, or any other culture, isn't guilty of this are they sam?

 

[jessiej920]

And just for kicks, copernicus addressed this early on the debate and was ignored by the oh-so-concerned jessiej920

Actually SAM, the oh-so-concerned Jessie DID address his repsonse in post #58. Once again, you only see what you want to.

 

[S.A.M.]

muslims, or any other culture, isn't guilty of this are they sam?

I think only the Mongols and Tartars were worse.

According to historians, the atrocities of the Mongols transcended into the souls of their victims for generations.

 

[nietzschefan]

Religions are a cancer to be cured someday. Currently the methods available are brutal, and increasingly tempting.

 

[Orleander]

Religions are a cancer to be cured someday. Currently the methods available are brutal, and increasingly tempting.

what? You're not gonna yell at anyone in this thread for hi-jacking? Or do you save that spiel for me?

 

[nietzschefan]

what? You're not gonna yell at anyone in this thread for hi-jacking? Or do you save that spiel for me?

Begone Whelp, before I treat you like a Muslim.

 

[Orleander]

Begone Whelp, before I treat you like a Muslim.

<silently running fast and furiously to safety>

 

[jessiej920]

Begone Whelp, before I treat you like a Muslim.

Careful now. SAM might think you're being racist...or wait...are you?

 

[jessiej920]

what? You're not gonna yell at anyone in this thread for hi-jacking? Or do you save that spiel for me?

PLEASE! Someone hi-jack this thread in another direction before I cut my own head off.

 

[scott3x]

Religions are a cancer to be cured someday. Currently the methods available are brutal, and increasingly tempting.

I will admit that at first, I laughed hard here. But after the merriment, I had to get down to business. I suppose I could classify myself as a pantheist; some definitions of the term fit at any rate, and I'm not so keen on those brutal methods being applied to me .

I think we could probably agree that one of the banes of many religions are their intolerances towards other religions and intolerances towards differing styles of life in general; the idea that one should be killed for abandoning islam is perhaps the worst example I've ever heard of. I believe someone mentioned (GeoffP perhaps) that S.A.M. doesn't consider that to be part of islam and if so, I'm glad that -S.A.M.'s- version of islam doesn't include that clause, but I remember hearing in the news how, if it weren't for the fact that there were those dastardly westerners in Afghanistan that managed to stop it, they were going to do an execution there for precisely this reason.

Yes, westerners have certainly killed their fair share there and anyone who knows me knows that I think that 9/11 was an inside job and therefore there's little justification for westerners to be there to begin with, but this -doesn't- mean that westerners are the spawn of Satan; and frankly, even many american conspiracy theorists who firmly believe that high level government officials -were- responsible for 9/11, I don't think they've been leaving the country in droves.

I also highly doubt you could persuade me to relocate to, say, Saudi Arabia, where my sister once lived (my mother told me she hated it), even if I -did- live in the U.S. as I have in the past (I was born and have lived most of my life in its northern neighbour).

 

[S.A.M.]

Actually SAM, the oh-so-concerned Jessie DID address his repsonse in post #58. Once again, you only see what you want to.

Ironic

Yes he has been charged due to confession.



According to police and media, he has confessed to the murder.

Link: http://www.newser.com/story/51123/ny-wife-beheading-blasted-as-honor-killing.html

This does not mean that he doesn't deserve a fair and speedy trial and shouldn't remain innocent until proven guilty, but what I am trying to get at is, if it was an 'honor' killing embedded in religious practices, why people believe that this is an excuse to break the law when the country that they are a resident of does not recognize such practices as lawful.

So lets see, who exactly espoused the belief you declared?

The gruesome beheading of a wife in upstate New York by her Muslim husband has been blasted as a retaliatory "honor killing" against a spouse seeking divorce, reports the Buffalo News. “This was apparently a terroristic version of honor killing, a murder rooted in cultural notions about women’s subordination to men,” said the president of the state's National Organization for Women.

Mussammil Hassan, founder of a US Muslim TV network, has confessed to cutting off his wife's head last week, according to law enforcement authorities. Hassan's wife filed for divorce earlier this month and obtained an order of protection barring her husband from their home. A New York matrimonial attorney said some Muslims consider divorce a dishonor.

Don't see anyone who believes it should be excused. Do you?

Note how the president of the states National Organisation for Women and a New York matrimonial attorney are conveniently unnamed.

Lets look up the NOW President.

Oh look!

NOW New York President Marcia Pappas slammed the national media for giving what she considers minimal coverage to the story, and Erie County District Attorney Frank Sedita for referring to the alleged crime as "the worst form of domestic violence possible."

"What is 'domestic' about this violence," Pappas asked in a NOW press release. "It is high time we stop regarding assaults and murders as a lover's quarrel gone bad."

Pappas said the story has not garnered bigger media play because many media outlets don't want to offend Muslims.

"Are we now so respectful of the Muslims' religion that we soft-peddle atrocities committed in its name," sahe asked in the press release.

"Had this awful murder been perpetrated by an African American, a Latino, a Jew, or a Catholic, the story would be flooding the airwaves. What is this deafening silence?"

A Google search found that the story was reported by major U.S. and international outlets, including the New York Times, Fox News, CNN and the Guardian, among many others.

Now lets search for this same woman on the topic of the a man cooking and eating his girlfriend last month in Texas

http://news.google.com/news?q=Marci...ent=firefox-a&um=1&ie=UTF-8&sa=N&hl=en&tab=wn

Or the 19 year old American who barbequed his girlfriend last year?

http://news.google.com/news?q=Marci...ent=firefox-a&um=1&ie=UTF-8&sa=N&hl=en&tab=wn

And the US war veteran who dismembered and cooked his girlfriend in New Orleans

http://news.google.com/news?q=Marci...ent=firefox-a&um=1&ie=UTF-8&sa=N&hl=en&tab=wn

Well clearly, Ms Pappas needs to address her own "deafening silence"

 

[Orleander]

PLEASE! Someone hi-jack this thread in another direction before I cut my own head off.

Ummm, I heard he cut her head off with a Black & Decker saw. Do you think it was gas run or electric? What do you think the horsepower had to be?

 

[Michael]

"no modern country ...practices slavery"

Look again. The entire system of debt used under colonialism is now practised on a global scale.

They've just evolved in semantics

"noted islamic scholars "

clueless

Japan borrowed money, Japan built a nation, Japan paid back their debts, Japan now lends money.

So, according to SAM's Islamic Slavery analogy, when they borrowed money, at that time, the entire Japanese nation were all a bunch of Slaves (just like the Slave in SAMs Islam analogy), then the Japanese built their nation. Just like SAMs Slave improved himself. Then the Japanese paid back their debts (just like the Slave in SAM's Islam Analogy) and now Japanese are a lenders (or in SAMs analogy they are like the Slave-turned-Imam who leads the army's, conquerors other people and turns them into his Slaves that he owns).

As for the other nations who can not (or do not or are not capable of) paying back their debts. Well, they also fit into SAMs analogy. They are the millions and millions (over whelming vast majority) of slaves that didn't make it to become the Imam and lead the Holy Armys of Islam and capture their own Slaves - instead they remained trapped as Slaves for their entire lives until one day they died an Islamic Slave.

So, it's really all the same - according to SAM anyway.


Except this bit. Relatively speaking, people living in free secular democracys have 1,000,000,000 Xs more opportunity to elevate themselves out of their position. In the Islamic system (as in all superstitions systems) the rulers are in place to KEEP people in slavery. They make damn well sure that only 0.01% of the very best and brightest MIGHT MAYBE rise up in the ranks. But for the vast majority they will remain slaves of one form or another.

THAT'S the difference.



Just look at KSA or Iran ...

Then look at CHina, North Korea, Vietnam ...

Then look at Japan, France, South Korea, Hong Kong, USA, Canada, Taiwan...

 

[S.A.M.]

Who wants to be a dying society?

 

[Orleander]

Who wants to be a dying society?

by dying, do you mean zombies? I heard you can kill a zombie by chopping off its head. hmmmmmm, I wonder.....