Let's cut through the chase: Jesus didn't exist.
- Thread starter Medicine*Woman
- Start date
“Can you think of a person that had more impact on future generations of the human populace than Jesus Christ?”
No, I mean exactly what I said -- the whole world.
Meaning they are biased -- right? Applying the same critiera, we should consider a scientist biased when he speaks about science, rather than considering him an expert on the subject?
Much less inconsistent when you go back to the original text. Would you care to present a few examples -- I've heard many of them before -- Like how many times did the rooster crow -- was it one two or three? Geez do you really expect me to remember 40 years later when I decide to write it down. Oh, and how about the lineage of Jesus by Mary (not Joseph) that was mis-explained in Luke by the translation butchers.
The torahs were all written in Hebrew, but the original biblical texts were written in multiple languages.
And what do you have to say about all the other biblical characters -- were any of them real? This includes Mary, Joseph, Jesus' siblings. The twelve disciples, Paul, the other apostles, Pontious Pilate, Cephas the high priest, King Herod, John the Baptist, Felix, Mary Magdalene, and many, many others.
What if Jesus was just a teacher, did no miracles, and lived and died like anyone else? Would you have any trouble believing he existed if several different people took the time to write about him? How about Mohammed -- did he really exist? How do you know?
No, I mean exactly what I said -- the whole world.
Meaning they are biased -- right? Applying the same critiera, we should consider a scientist biased when he speaks about science, rather than considering him an expert on the subject?
Much less inconsistent when you go back to the original text. Would you care to present a few examples -- I've heard many of them before -- Like how many times did the rooster crow -- was it one two or three? Geez do you really expect me to remember 40 years later when I decide to write it down. Oh, and how about the lineage of Jesus by Mary (not Joseph) that was mis-explained in Luke by the translation butchers.
The torahs were all written in Hebrew, but the original biblical texts were written in multiple languages.
And what do you have to say about all the other biblical characters -- were any of them real? This includes Mary, Joseph, Jesus' siblings. The twelve disciples, Paul, the other apostles, Pontious Pilate, Cephas the high priest, King Herod, John the Baptist, Felix, Mary Magdalene, and many, many others.
What if Jesus was just a teacher, did no miracles, and lived and died like anyone else? Would you have any trouble believing he existed if several different people took the time to write about him? How about Mohammed -- did he really exist? How do you know?
I offered plenty of it several posts back -- if you would liketo read all of it. Many of the historical references are secular. I won't make the post agian because it eats up too much band width. Somebody told me I broke the sciforums record -- I wasn't trying to.
Just for the record, I suggest you re-read Isaiah 7:14 and see if it makes the remotest sense in the context. Israel and Syria are massing on Judah's borders, and King Ahaz is getting ready to fight for their survival. Isaiah tells him not to worry, because a baby is going to be born, and before it knows right from wrong or can say "mamma" and "pappa", Israel and Syria will be gone. It does not make any sense to imagine that Isaiah was trying to comfort Ahaz by telling him that the baby was going to be born in 740 years time. Of course the only reason that this is held up as a prophecy of Jesus is that it was cited by Matthew in his scripture-fulfillment heavy account of Jesus's life. This kind of taking lines of scripture out of context is essentially the same thing as people who find oblique references to modern day events in Nostradamus, or the so-called "Bible Code".TheVisitor said:
However, though I used to promote the "almah <> virgin" line, I now believe it's kind of irrelevant. The scripture that Matthew was quoting was the Septuagint, the Greek Old Testament, and the word in Isaiah there is parthenos, which very definitely means "virgin". When I made that discovery it led me to wonder whether in fact the whole concept, particularly since the Reformation, but actually present when Jerome translated the Bible into Latin, of returning to the Hebrew originals to make Old Testament translations, was theologically and Christologically misguided - since Jesus, the Apostles and the Evangelists - the very founders of Christianity - did not in point of fact know the scriptures in Hebrew. They only knew the Septuagint, and if their understanding of God, of Judaic law, of messianic writings, was the Septuagint, then surely the Christian bible should use that as its basis in preference to the Hebrew? I certainly don't want to denigrate the Hebrew bible, though, the human race's greatest and longest lasting theological and literary document. The Septuagint is also known to be a very variable translation. My recently obtained edition includes a note in the (1852) introduction to the effect that the very worst-translated book in the Septuagint is Isaiah! And undoubtedly one contributory factor in that assessment is the putting the nonsense word "virgin" in a context in which it makes no sense whatsoever. Not only was Isaiah very specifically not talking about a miraculous event, it goes on to describe Isaiah "going in unto the prophetess" (ie his wife or betrothed) and the predicted child being born. Despite having stated that the child would be called Immanuel (God with us) - something that wasn't true of Jesus either, please note - God changed his mind and called the baby Maher-Shalal-Hash-Baz (imagine the poor tyke's ribbing in the playground!)
It is not irrelevant to the believer, because it is an example of the creative power of God.
What I am saying is positive confession.
Some prophecies,are not just the foretelling of future events, but it is the inspiration of the prophet to speak the thing that brings it about to pass in the future.
Theres the difference.
It's the power of the spoken word.
The same power the created the heavens and earth.
God created Himself in the womb of a virgin, by inspiring a prophet to speak the words 800 years earlier.
It had nothing to do with Syria or Israel at the time nessesarily.
"Jesus Christ was the beginning of the creation of God"
There are more than the one scripture you quoted that refer to it.
The Jehovah of the old testament is the Jesus Christ of the new.
Every scripture in the entire bible is in some way a type, shadow, or literal manifestation of the revelation of Jesus Christ.
.
What I am saying is positive confession.
Some prophecies,are not just the foretelling of future events, but it is the inspiration of the prophet to speak the thing that brings it about to pass in the future.
Theres the difference.
It's the power of the spoken word.
The same power the created the heavens and earth.
God created Himself in the womb of a virgin, by inspiring a prophet to speak the words 800 years earlier.
It had nothing to do with Syria or Israel at the time nessesarily.
"Jesus Christ was the beginning of the creation of God"
There are more than the one scripture you quoted that refer to it.
The Jehovah of the old testament is the Jesus Christ of the new.
Every scripture in the entire bible is in some way a type, shadow, or literal manifestation of the revelation of Jesus Christ.
.
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davewhite04
Valued Senior Member
wayne_92587
Registered Senior Member
TheVisitor said:
Using the Term Human Being as a generic term to mean Homo Sapiens,
refinement of the Human Being, genetically speaking Homo Sapiens,
Part Animal, Part Beast, Part Human Being, is not yet Fully Complete.
A truly Human Being, a refined Humane Being is not the same as the modern
generic Human Being, Homo Sapiens, Human Kind, Mankind, he and she.
Not all homo sapiens, so called Human Beings, Human Kind, have been
refined, transform, transfigured, into a Truly Humane, Supreme Being, the
Sons and Daughters of God.
The refinement, the Transformation, the Transfiguration, of Human Kind is
not in the nature of the Flesh Body it is the refinement of Non-physical,
the Immaterial, the Mercurial Nature of the Spiritual Body, the Rational Mind,
the Imagination, refinement in Human Kind's Mental attitude towards not only
his Fellow Man but towards the Reality of Everything.
Christ consciousness is the Breath, the Spirit, the Life Blood of the Single True Nature of the Universe that was breathed into Human Kind's nostrils making the Spirit that is God Like a Physically Manifest Reality, Mankind’s, Immortal Being, Living Soul, boundlessness.
wayne_92587 said:
*************
M*W: Wayne, darling, it's time for your little yellow pill. Open wide.
wayne_92587
Registered Senior Member
Surprise, Surprise, you don't get it.
Not a Surprise to me!!
And here I thought that you had Infinite Knowledge, were Omniscient, all Knowing, a Know-it-all.
My mistake!
Not a Surprise to me!!
And here I thought that you had Infinite Knowledge, were Omniscient, all Knowing, a Know-it-all.
My mistake!
wayne_92587
Registered Senior Member
Godless said:Are you? NO! right, so "stfu!". figure that one out genius
Godless
Why do you waste your time being nonsensical or is that the best you have.
Wayne said:
I couldn't have put it better myself. Why do you chide people for being nonsensical when you sound like John Denver on an acid trip? Oh, and all the capitalisation, it's enough to give you eyestrain! (Don't tell me you don't know what stfu means? Try figuring it out!)Wayne said:
davewhite, that was a fascinating story that I'd completely missed! I did not know how many nutters there were in the world! But seriously, there hasn't been a self-declared prophet who didn't predict "false dawns" and "watch out for those who pretend to preach in my name." Mohammed probably said the same thing (though I don't know if he actually did) but does that mean he's the prophet that they claim?
the first guy to vocalize something in an intelligable way, also.
davewhite04
Valued Senior Member
Silas said:
I don't know of any prophet that had foretold something like this, I mean it's a prophecy about how human beings will behave many hundreds of years after the death of Jesus, who prophesied it(A very complex prediction if you ask me).
If you have a more remarkable prediction then that, backed up with straight forward evidence, then let me see it.
That was a good article btw! Dave, I specially like this part:
Jesus: But I am, But I am the real messiah!
Jesus: Look I can make the liberty statue disappear; Atheist; Already done buddy by David Copperfield"
Jesus: I can make this tiger yield; Atheist: Already done dood, Seigfried and Roy
Jesus: Oh! I know I can levitate; Atheist: Dood I got the video! click
So much for the damn nut who actually believes to be the messiah!
Godless
Jesus: But I am, But I am the real messiah!
Jesus: Look I can make the liberty statue disappear; Atheist; Already done buddy by David Copperfield"
Jesus: I can make this tiger yield; Atheist: Already done dood, Seigfried and Roy
Jesus: Oh! I know I can levitate; Atheist: Dood I got the video! click
So much for the damn nut who actually believes to be the messiah!
Godless
wayne_92587
Registered Senior Member
Silas said:
Of course I know what stfu up means, it is just nonsense for anyone think that I would may any attention.
I know about the capitals some of it is by accident and some of it isn't.