Let's all have a big fight over my mortal soul.

Grantywanty said:
I can't understant why anyone would want to change you. And I am not agnostic.
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Well, at least some of the Faithful would like to change me. I know this because they knock on my door at regular intervals for that express purpose. As far as the unbelievers are concerned: well, I suppose I'm just interested in finding out exactly what they believe. Especially, as I said, those identifying as strong athiests (so far come there none, but I live in hope).
greenberg said:
Only a person who is evil or cognitively and morally corrupt would choose an option that he himself perceives as negative or disadvantageous.
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Depressed people often do this. You could make a good case for cognitive corruption; less so for moral corruption.

P. S. Despite the clear cry for help that is my opening post I don't truly anticipate coming out of this having had my beliefs changed significantly one way or the other. But: I'm willing someone to pull me out of my hellish limbo. ;)
greenberg said:
I don't think this follows. Perhaps there are some people out there, with special powers, who can directly discern reality ... given that the distinction reality vs. imagination is real ...

Also, (strong) agnosticism is a nightmare to consistently apply and live in.


I am more inclined though to ponder the possibility that the path of evidence might not be the only way to successfully orient ourselves in life.
That perhaps the basis for our actions could be a moral system. Namely, as the recent research into human cognition and decision-making suggests, the important factor for human action are preferences and values (and as such are part of a moral system).

However, preferences and values are sometimes more difficult to name or put into words than that which we consider "evidence" or "facts", even though it is the preferences and values that lead our actions.

This difficulty is augmented by the tendency of the human mind to have biases - such as the one that leads us to think that if something pops up in our mind first, it is the most relevant and true - which is not necessarily so.
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If our contradictory realities are just a muddled, all-too-human mess of preconceptions, biases and blinkered observations (and I agree, they are :)) God would seem to be as real as gravity. Are there any reliable tools at all that I can use to assess their relative validity? Or is it all just a matter of which particular fiction you put your faith in?
 
redarmy11 said:
Hi,

I'm redarmy11 and I'm a cowardly, fence-sitting agnostic. I is feeling left out. :(

Theists: show me the Light and the Way.
Atheists: convert me to the Dark Side.

Go.

P. S. You are all mad. :)
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I don't believe you are agnostic since it is logically impossible to be one.
 
Grantywanty: it's not disingenuous at all. Theist-athiest conflicts rage across these forums.

I've yet to see theists offer any compelling evidence that God exists.
I've yet to see atheists (?) offer any compelling evidence that he doesn't.

I want to hear a convincing case presented for either belief - and I want it now!
 
redarmy11 said:
Well, at least some of the Faithful would like to change me. I know this because they knock on my door at regular intervals for that express purpose. As far as the unbelievers are concerned: well, I suppose I'm just interested in finding out exactly what they believe. Especially, as I said, those identifying as strong athiests (so far come there none, but I live in hope).
Click to expand...

I am certainly not one of the Faithful or any kind of monotheist. I don't think your post shows much genuine interest. It seems like a kind of double trolling, creative to that extent. ' dance in front of me so I can laugh at you both'. This might not have been your intent, but it sure came off that way.
 
redarmy11 said:
Grantywanty: it's not disingenuous at all. Theist-athiest conflicts rage across these forums.

I've yet to see theists offer any compelling evidence that God exists.
I've yet to see atheists (?) offer any compelling evidence that he doesn't.

I want to hear a convincing case presented for either belief - and I want it now!
Click to expand...
See now this post is getting closer to honest. Now you are not simply pretending to be passive, but actually showing that you have a position.

The poor me is gone. The feeling left out is gone. I still think you want to show people that their arguments are futile. I also, like some of the others, think you are content where you are. And that was the primary thing that struck me as disingenuous about the OP.
 
Grantywanty said:
I am certainly not one of the Faithful or any kind of monotheist. I don't think your post shows much genuine interest. It seems like a kind of double trolling, creative to that extent. ' dance in front of me so I can laugh at you both'. This might not have been your intent, but it sure came off that way.
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That. Is. My. Intent.

I find both the theist and athiest positions absurd.

Someone prove me wrong.
 
redarmy11 said:
Grantywanty: it's not disingenuous at all. Theist-athiest conflicts rage across these forums.

I've yet to see theists offer any compelling evidence that God exists.
I've yet to see atheists (?) offer any compelling evidence that he doesn't.

I want to hear a convincing case presented for either belief - and I want it now!
Click to expand...


I can only say that I believe in myself and little else in todays world. Only

you can make your decision as to what you want to think and the way you

want to think. You know the arguments over both directions. We can't

convince you , you must convince yourself.
 
redarmy11 said:
You could make a good case for cognitive corruption; less so for moral corruption.
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I will argue that the two are connected and mutually conditioning each other.


P. S. Despite the clear cry for help that is my opening post I don't truly anticipate coming out of this having had my beliefs changed significantly one way or the other. But: I'm willing someone to pull me out of my hellish limbo. ;)
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Ah, prince(ss) on the white horse, where are you ... :eek:

Seriously - The possibility that you'll just have to do it yourself might be necessary to consider.


If our contradictory realities are just a muddled, all-too-human mess of preconceptions, biases and blinkered observations (and I agree, they are :)) God would seem to be as real as gravity. Are there any reliable tools at all that I can use to assess their relative validity? Or is it all just a matter of which particular fiction you put your faith in?
Click to expand...

I'm not a Buddhist, but I think Buddhism makes some good points, such as this one -
In relation to the above question of yours, the Buddhist question to ask might be this -

Days fly past, fly past, what am I doing right now?
What, when I do it, will be for my long-term welfare and happiness?
 
cosmictraveler said:
I can only say that I believe in myself and little else in todays world. Only

you can make your decision as to what you want to think and the way you

want to think. You know the arguments over both directions. We can't

convince you , you must convince yourself.
Click to expand...
Forget about me.

Do you believe that there is a God? If so, please present the evidence for your belief.

Or: do you believe that there is no God? If so, please present the evidence for your belief.
 
I must away awhile.
Me said:
It's the 'strong' atheists who interest me most in all of this: those who are 100% certain that no Gods exist. Identify yourselves, please, and justify your position.
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Come out, come out, wherever you are.
 
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