#LDTPoll: Who do you believe on the Russian hacking allegations?

[iceaura]

The main goal of the whole “Russian hacking” US election narrative is a propaganda stunt aimed at discrediting Trump by claiming that Vladimir Putin personally intervened to discredit Hillary Clinton, retired CIA analyst Larry Johnson has told RT.

The narrative does not depend on Putin's personal intervention, and I am quite sure that discrediting Trump is redundant. Democratic Party political theater is of course objectionable, but this really happened anyway - the Dems didn't make this up.

Suppose the USA were to become a far left Socialistic State.

Suppose we lived in wingnut fantasy world where Trump was a progressive and socialist and the trend in US politics was toward the the left and a Socialist State. In that alternative reality - quite different from anything found in recent events or existing trends or reasonable probability - almost anything could happen.

So? Do you, have ANY evidence at all?
Anything?

Or just the word of known WMD liars?

The multiple connections between Trump and the Russian mob would be evidence in themselves, without the various little oddities in Trump's behavior (hiding his business connections with Russia, the advance info, etc) and the obvious timing issues (so unlike a staffer leak) and the RNC hacking sequestration. Russian agency is the most likely even without the various agencies weighing in.

Meanwhile, the WMD lies did not come from those people. The WMD lies came from Republican Party propaganda operations, and Republican Party political honchos. That's who has the track record of this kind of lying - that's whose word you're taking.

 

[Kittamaru]

Kittamaru I am serious, look at how you address Russia and Russians. Don't you see that you are handling issues with another nation in a racist way? Why cant we be friends? Why these continued stereotypical references and continued bullying? When will you draw a line?

The intent more was to mock you but eh.

Why can't we be friends? Simple - I deal in facts and reality and logic. I will not befriend someone who continues to be an apologist for someone who has committed repeated atrocities against civilians, gone and simply taken land that isn't his, and generally represents a clear and present threat to our nations guiding principle.

Well he did say "Russians use his organization to further their own goals". Isn't "using" means "controlling" as well? And who works for free, right?

So you are asserting he was paid, then.

 

[origin]

It is nice to see that our President Elect can take time from his busy schedule to insult an actor who insulted him. I think the country is going to be run by someone with the emotional maturity of a 13 year old.

 

[joepistole]

It is nice to see that our President Elect can take time from his busy schedule to insult an actor who insulted him. I think the country is going to be run by someone with the emotional maturity of a 13 year old.

Yeah, that is kind of scary. I understand the actress in question never once mentioned Trump's name. But I guess it was apparent from her speech who she was talking about. Trump apparently recognized himself.

 

[joepistole]

‘Clinton quite effective at discrediting herself, doesn’t need Putin’s help’ - ex CIA analyst

The main goal of the whole “Russian hacking” US election narrative is a propaganda stunt aimed at discrediting Trump by claiming that Vladimir Putin personally intervened to discredit Hillary Clinton, retired CIA analyst Larry Johnson has told RT.

“It’s designed to smear Trump. Because even the language that developed the notion that Vladimir Putin took it upon himself and instructed the intelligence organs in Russia to go out and discredit Hillary Clinton. Hillary Clinton didn’t need any help being discredited, she was quite effective at it herself,” Larry Johnson said.

"It was not Vladimir Putin that put the email server in her bathroom,” Johnson added.

“It was not Vladimir Putin who told Hillary Clinton to use a private email account and conduct US-government business over that account and to share classified information. And her repeated lying about it. The fact that you would just focus a story on it somehow makes you an agent of Vladimir Putin. This thing is so ridiculous. It’s amusing we have talk about, but it’s so serious because it shows just the level that the intelligence community in the United States has fallen to. They are playing and interfering in domestic policies,” he said.

The report lacks any factual evidence, because the intelligence services apparently don’t have any, Larry Johnson believes. “I don’t think they’re hiding anything because they don’t have anything. These are ‘or and how’ intelligence estimates as opposed to an intelligence analysis based on fact. There’s no fact underlying this. There are analytical assumptions,” Johnson said.

“You can tell that because whenever they use the language like ‘we assess that’ or ‘we believe that’ or ‘it’s likely that.’ That means they don’t know, because if you knew, you could say … in public ‘according to multiple sources we know that.’ You state facts,” he explained.
...
“It was only CIA and FBI that ‘strongly agree’ but the NSA, who’s the only one in that group that would actually have the physical evidence of the hacking, if that existed… took a middle of the road position,” Johnson told RT.

The whole situation around the “hacking” report gives an impression of a well-staged spectacle, Johnson believes
...
from:
https://www.rt.com/op-edge/372883-clinton-discredited-herself-putin/

Ignore the smoke and mirrors and do look behind the curtain.

So now we have the American right wing citing Russian state owned and controlled media as a reference and authority, my how things have change; my how the Republican Party has changed.

 

[joepistole]

Kittamaru I am serious, look at how you address Russia and Russians. Don't you see that you are handling issues with another nation in a racist way? Why cant we be friends? Why these continued stereotypical references and continued bullying? When will you draw a line?

Racist way....? Are Russians now a race? Why can't Russia stop invading, occupying, and annexing the lands of weaker neighboring states? Why is it Russian's can't stop lying and for once be honest? Why can Russia not stop threatening others?

If Russia wants to be friends, then it needs to stop threatening other states; then and only then can we talk about being friends comrade. It really is that simple. Western powers have drawn a line, and Russia doesn't like it. That's not our problem; that's Russia's problem. If Russia doesn't like the sanctions the Western world has imposed on it, and clearly it doesn't; then Russia needs to withdraw its troops from Georgia and Ukraine and give back the lands it has stolen from its neighbors. It needs to stop harassing the commercial and military traffic of other nations. It needs to stop murdering Syrians and bombing hospitals; then and only then can we talk about being friends, and only then.

Unfortunately for you and your fellow comrades the world is not as dumb as you need them to be. Not everyone believes Russian fake news and Russian state owned media propaganda.

 

[joepistole]

Why do you call him a Russian tool?
Alex

Because he is doing Russia's work. He only publishes materials which harm the United States or allied powers. You don't think Russia has a boat load of dirt or that it's cyber defenses are so special? Assange has never ever been critical of Russia or Putin: not once. Additionally, Assange was an employee of the Russian media. That's a matter of public knowledge. Assange has worked for the Russian state owned media, and he may still be working for the Russian state.

 

[joepistole]

It is becoming rather embarrasing to be a citizen of the USA.

Indeed.

 

[Kittamaru]

It is nice to see that our President Elect can take time from his busy schedule to insult an actor who insulted him. I think the country is going to be run by someone with the emotional maturity of a 13 year old.

That's rather insulting to the average 13 year old...

 

[origin]

That's rather insulting to the average 13 year old...

LOL...

 

[ElectricFetus]

So now we have the American right wing citing Russian state owned and controlled media as a reference and authority, my how things have change; my how the Republican Party has changed.

Glorious isn't it? This is the festering insect riddled bed we must lie in, modern media has degenerated to the state where the likes to trump is elected and the likes of Russian propaganda is trusted in America.

LOL...

It is insulting, 4 year old would be more like it.

 

[Michael]

Suppose we lived in wingnut fantasy world where Trump was a progressive and socialist and the trend in US politics was toward the the left and a Socialist State. In that alternative reality - quite different from anything found in recent events or existing trends or reasonable probability - almost anything could happen.

Measure everything our Progressive created Income tax and Progress created Central Bank with its 20 trillion in Progressive T Bonds debts....place all that shit on one side of the scale. This is the influence Progressive Socialism has on our society. On the other side of the scale place the little tiny bit left over, a residue stain of what used to be a free society / free market (like choosing who you can date, not marry to receive a tax credit, but date). There's almost nothing left untouched or uncorrupted by State enforced socialism.

There's no comparison. Progressive Institutions dominate our entire way of life. State Authoritarianism is accepted as legitimate because we voted, you know, like Slavery once was in our illustrious Republic.

Well, if you think 100 years of reliance of Progressive State violence ends well, I'd suggest thinking again. That's my opinion. We'll see.

That said, we have plenty of decades to go.


We live in your Progressive Social paradise. Don't cry crocodile tears now. You got your socialism. THIS IS the inevitable outcome. Oh, but it's not working as you had planned? NOT enough is it? Just a bit more State violence. A few million more lines of law. A million more civil restrictions. Just a few more taxes, a few more regulations, then.... Finally you Progressives will usher in our North Korean Workers paradise.

In the meantime, it's all one big wingnut conspiracy. About Russians hackers and not about an old hag political hack who used the political and media machines to push racism for two years while sidelining Bernie Democratic Socialist Authoritarian Sanders.

No, it's THE RUSSIANS!
Lol

Note: The GOP are fully supportive of the status quo. They support our Progressive Socialistic system - they just want to use some if it to pay for their free shit.

The multiple connections between Trump and the Russian mob

LOL

You've got to kidding me. Hahahahaha! Talk about wingnut fantasies!


We would have almost gotten away with it if not for you meddling Hackers....

 

[Bells]

Hey WikiLeaks is on Periscope (live) to address the nonsense that is our media.

Wikileaks have also taken to retweeting Breitbart as though it is fact.

I think that pretty much sums up the whole of Wikileaks and Assange at this point in time.

You want to believe in a big scary Putin, feel free. I don't. And I don't care.

Tell that to the families of the victims on MH17. Tell that to the families of journalists who are killed in Russia, not to mention members of any political opposition to Putin. Tell that to the civilians in Aleppo who are being bombed by Russian forces for daring to be against Putin's puppet, Assad. Tell that to members of the LGBT community in Russia, who are constant targets due to how Putin decides to portray them.

The list goes on and on.

It's not that Putin is big and scary. It is that he is dangerous and power hungry, to the point where his political opponents are routinely assassinated and journalists who dare to criticise him end up dead, also assassinated in Russia. Perhaps this is what you enjoy in a political leader? Perhaps this is what you deem to be strength in leadership? It is ironic that Wikileaks remains silent on these issues, isn't it?

QUOTE="Michael, post: 3428268, member: 10734"]Get this, perhaps what's best for Russia, GAAAAAAAAASP is also best for the average waddling American. That is, less war, more trade.[/QUOTE]
I wonder if the "average waddling American" will also think it best to have their passenger jets shot down by weapons supplied by Putin's Kremlin? Or will they think it is in their best interest to murder journalists and political opponents? Perhaps they will believe it is in their best interest to commit criminal acts against LGBT and get away with it? Because that's all best for Russia, yes? So this kind of stuff will be good for America as well, yes?

Just so long as you get more trade, what's the big deal!

I'm a US Citizen - obviously I have family in the USA. However, I suggest to anyone, if you are inclined, move to the East. IMO, the future lies in the East.

Why do you live in the East or recommend it while deploring things like taxation, regulations, health care reform like Medicare, etc? South Korea, for example, is known for its strict and numerous regulations. You only have to look at how they regulate and censor the internet in South Korea to see just how bad it is.

 

[iceaura]

Measure everything our Progressive created Income tax and Progress created Central Bank with its 20 trillion in Progressive T Bonds debts....place all that shit on one side of the scale. This is the influence Progressive Socialism has on our society.

The US Central bank is a privately owned for profit capitalist entity.

Most of the 20 trillion debt was incurred by granting large tax breaks to income derived from private corporate capital, handing large sums of public money to private capitalist banks and insurance firms of various kinds, and launching full scale failed war at the behest of Republican governance dominated by oil company executives and capitalist military contractors.

"The multiple connections between Trump and the Russian mob"
LOL

You've got to kidding me. Hahahahaha! Talk about wingnut fantasies!

The wingnuts think Trump's Russian business connections are fantasy. That's all you have to know about those folks.

Think you'll ever get a look at Trump's tax returns?

 

[Michael]

Why do you live in the East or recommend it while deploring things like taxation, regulations, health care reform like Medicare, etc? South Korea, for example, is known for its strict and numerous regulations. You only have to look at how they regulate and censor the internet in South Korea to see just how bad it is.

There are no free markets in healthcare anywhere. That aside, homogenous societies with competitive internal markets allow for the price mechanism to somewhat work. Not as good as a new market in sound currencies could.

 

[Michael]

The US Central bank is a privately owned for profit capitalist entity.

You're verging into conspiracy theory wingnut territory.

Where does the Central Bank derive it's authority? From the Government - which it funds. To the tune of trillions and trillions in unfunded liabilities. You know, to pay for all the free shit you Socialists crap on about.

Small cost though, society itself.


Note: The Progressives gave us income-tax and a Central Banking cartel. They had to. That's how Authoritarian Statism pays for the free shit, via violence.

Note2: We use debt based fiat currency, not capital. We're debtists, not capitalists.

Note3: It's not that we're on the decline. We are living IN the post-decline, that's still declining and will continue to do so for decades. Then the Welfare State will collapse. I'm sure that'll be fun times.

It just appears normal from the inside. It's normal to have ghettos and gangs and drugs and never ending war. Normal to die from healthcare error or graduate a functional illiterate. But only on the inside. And to be sure, it's far from normal. Here where I sit, all of that would be beyond reprehensible. It would be seen as a social sickness. anyway, reasoning left the table long ago. No one wants the answers because the cognitive biases suck to accept. Or they d in nt want to seem as of they're not part of the team. Team America. LOL
Now it's all about the feels.

Note4: What do you suppose a century of State Authoritarianism does to the private market. You remember, that place where moral trade between consenting adults took place? Eighty years ago it was then understood power had shifted from us, free people, to the government buracracy. And there it's remained. Thus, if you want change, you'll need to do it through violence against morally innocent humans. No better way to do that, then through a wealthy powerful strongman. As functionally illiterate Americans are learning. Let's see how that works for us across the decades.

Progressives opened Pandora box 100 years ago, out came the Great Depression, WWII, never ending phony wars, hyper regulation of society, spy agencies almost right out of Nineteen Eighty Four. And I believe, this is only the beginning.

It's all downhill from here.

 

[Michael]

Wikileaks have also taken to retweeting Breitbart as though it is fact.

I think that pretty much sums up the whole of Wikileaks and Assange at this point in time.

Still waiting on the evidence.

 

[Michael]

Tell that to the families of the victims on MH17. Tell that to the families of journalists who are killed in Russia, not to mention members of any political opposition to Putin. Tell that to the civilians in Aleppo who are being bombed by Russian forces for daring to be against Putin's puppet, Assad. Tell that to members of the LGBT community in Russia, who are constant targets due to how Putin decides to portray them.

The list goes on and on.

Children will be born with birth defects today, cleft pallette, missing limbs or stunted, mentally regressed in development thanks to our use of chemical warfare in Vietnam. And indeed, that's just the beginning. Russia has the GDP of Italy, we spend more in a couple weeks than they spend in an entire year, we're the largest arms dealer, we have the millions of solders, never ending phony wars, and largest arms dealers in history.

Us. Not Russia. Us.

Not to mention the nice little smochy smooch Obama got in the cheek from the sultan of Arabia. Oh yes, Peace Prize wieners are more than happy to chum about with dictatorships that hang gays, reporters, LGBT, atheists, Christians, other Islamic sects, and etc...

I'm not too worried about Russia. They're nothing comparably.

 

[iceaura]

Where does the Central Bank derive it's authority? From the Government

It's a privately owned, for profit, capitalist entity. Always has been. The antithesis of socialism.

Note2: We use debt based fiat currency, not capital. We're debtists, not capitalists.

Once again confusing currency with capital. A basic error - fundamental mistake.

 

[James R]

Progressives opened Pandora box 100 years ago, out came the Great Depression, WWII, never ending phony wars, hyper regulation of society, spy agencies almost right out of Nineteen Eighty Four.

WWII was the fault of the evil Progressives, now, Michael? What role, if any, did Hitler and Japan play in that war? Did they have any influence? Or were they Progressives, too?