Jesus Christ is the Son of God

*Originally posted by Xelios
Forgive me if I'm wrong tony1, but isn't Catholicism part of Christianity?*

Nope.
Catholicism is what's known as a strawman.
Satan can't figure out what Christianity is all about, so he was forced to construct a huge, identifiable edifice such as Catholicism, which he then convinces people to "attack."

*What I posted was only some of the similarities between Mithra and Christianity, there are many more including similarities between church masses and prayers.*

As I said before, you did do a good job of identifying that Catholicism borrowed heavily from Mithraism, if not that it is entirely based on it.

*Oh, and it's about time you came back *

Been busy.

*Yes, and since Christianity (or at least Catholicism) evolved from the Mithra religion, it is also a myth. *

OK, you got me there.
I admit that Catholicism is a myth, albeit a very visible one.

*Originally posted by Cris
Mankind has grown from the stone age and onwards learning all the time.*

You are quoting evolutionist propaganda as if it is historical fact, it isn’t.

*Note that hell did not exist before Christianity. Hell is a Christian creation.*

Actually, the underground caverns with the red tights thing is a Catholic invention.
Hell has always existed in its actual state of being the grave.

*You should ask yourself why such an alleged perfect God who teaches love has any need of a place that uses eternal torment?*

Good point.
You should.
He doesn't.

As smoke is driven away, so drive them away: as wax melteth before the fire, so let the wicked perish at the presence of God.
(Psalms 68:2, KJV).

The wicked will merely perish.
The eternal torment thing was invented by the Catholics, Romans and/or Greeks.

*Note that the more refined and mature religion of Hinduism has no concept of hell.*

Except for the following, of course...

---Krishna, maintainer of the people, I have heard by disciplic succession that those who destroy family traditions dwell always in hell.---
(BG 1:43)

---Those situated in goodness gradually go upward to the higher planets; those in passion live on the earthly planets; and those in ignorance go down to the hellish worlds.---
(BG 14:18)

---Thus perplexed by various anxieties and bound by a network of illusions, one becomes too strongly attached to sense enjoyment and falls down into hell.---
(BG 16:16)

---There are three gates leading to this hell - lust, anger and greed. Every sane man should give these up, for they lead to the degradation of the soul.---
(BG 16:21)

It seems that the more "mature" religion mentions hell, too.

I’m afraid you are not quoting history but just mythology.

*Originally posted by moonman
It seems that it is impossible to state 'Jesus Christ existed' and have conclusive evidence.*

It's impossible to state that that evolution exists and have any evidence at all, but that isn't stopping anyone from trying.

*Originally posted by Cris
If true then why isn't this vital claim supported by at least one indisputable (as far as humanly possible) piece of evidence?*

People will dispute anything, that's why.
 
Tony:
Firstoff, welcome back.

Catholicism is what's known as a strawman.
Satan can't figure out what Christianity is all about, so he was forced to construct a huge, identifiable edifice such as Catholicism, which he then convinces people to "attack."
Click to expand...

On what evidence, then, do you state that Satan created Catholicism? While Catholicism may be different from the origional Christian movement, Christianity itself has thousands and thousands of other branches. Can Protestantism be claimed as the correct one?

Catholic church is corrupt? Perhaps. But the Protestant churches are often as greedy and corrupt (read: Tammy Faye Bakker) as the Catholic church ever was. And certainly the RCC isn't the only Christian church that has had problems with paedophilia.
 
*Originally posted by Xev
Tony:
Firstoff, welcome back.*/

Hey, thanks,

*On what evidence, then, do you state that Satan created Catholicism?*

It was practically the first thing he did.

And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die:
(Genesis 3:4, KJV).

The Catholics have been saying the same thing ever since, with their doctrine of eternal torment in "hell."

*Can Protestantism be claimed as the correct one?*

Probably not, at least not as such.

*Catholic church is corrupt? Perhaps. But the Protestant churches are often as greedy and corrupt (read: Tammy Faye Bakker) as the Catholic church ever was. And certainly the RCC isn't the only Christian church that has had problems with paedophilia. *

True, of course.
However, the actual church is the body of believers scattered throughout the various "branches."
 
Tony:
The Catholics have been saying the same thing ever since, with their doctrine of eternal torment in "hell."
Click to expand...

While I'd certainly agree with you in that hell does not exist, is this lie any worse than the Protestant vision of fluffy white clouds and angels in heaven? I know Protestants who preach the existance of hell.

True, of course.
However, the actual church is the body of believers scattered throughout the various "branches."
Click to expand...

Would you then say that established religion is counterproductive?
What constitutes a Christian?
 
*Originally posted by Xev
While I'd certainly agree with you in that hell does not exist,*

I'm saying it does exist, unless you are planning to argue that there no graves on the earth.

*is this lie any worse than the Protestant vision of fluffy white clouds and angels in heaven?*

Who knows what clouds are like in heaven?
However, I'm planning on spending eternity on earth.

And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.
And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.
(Revelation 21:2,3, KJV).

See that "out of heaven?"

*I know Protestants who preach the existance of hell.*

They would be the ones that didn't read the Bible much.

*Would you then say that established religion is counterproductive? *

If by "established," you mean "incorporated, state-licensed," it would seem so from a natural perspective.
From a spiritual perspective, it serves to identify non-believers very effectively.

For example, witches like to attend church from time to time to try to curse the church and/or its members.
What better place to find witches who do that than in church?

*What constitutes a Christian? *

Seeing as the term is literally the name given to believers by non-believers, I don't really know.
From a "Christian" perspective, it would mean believers of the truth, i.e. those who worship the Father in spirit and in truth.

God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.
(John 4:24, KJV).
 
I'm saying it does exist, unless you are planning to argue that there no graves on the earth.
Click to expand...
What does the existence of graves have to do with heaven and hell? Graves are just holes in the ground where we store dead meat.
 
No, they are simply holes in the ground. Go outside with a shovel and make one.
 
Except for the "no," where were you when they were starting religions?

That's exactly how simple the concept is.
 
Adam:

Read a Bible. Hell is the grave.

Tony:
I'm saying it does exist, unless you are planning to argue that there no graves on the earth.
Click to expand...

Could we as easily equate the grave with nonexistence?

Who knows what clouds are like in heaven?
Click to expand...

Snide reference to Protestant visions of heaven. Are they any more or less lies than the Catholic vision of hell and purgatory?

They would be the ones that didn't read the Bible much.
Click to expand...

How many of those who call themselves Christians do?

What I argue is this:

While the Catholic idea of hell is not Biblically supported, neither is the contemporary Protestant vision. Thus, it is unfair to single out the Catholic Church as being established by Satan, unless you are willing to say the same for any Protestant sect that preaches the doctrine of Hell and everlasting punishment.

For example, witches like to attend church from time to time to try to curse the church and/or its members.
What better place to find witches who do that than in church?
Click to expand...

A stunningly idiotic way to spend one's time.
Have I ever mentioned my dislike for the Wicca/Witchy/Earth-Mother crap? :)

Seeing as the term is literally the name given to believers by non-believers, I don't really know.
From a "Christian" perspective, it would mean believers of the truth, i.e. those who worship the Father in spirit and in truth.
Click to expand...

A good definition.

So thus, some Catholics could well be Christians, if they do this?
 
Tony1, a hole in the ground is simply a hole in the ground. It carries no significance other that that which we give it. A cellar is just a storage room. A grave is simple a hole for dead meat. Neither proves the existence of hell.
 
Adam:
And I thought I was anal-retentive for the obsession I put into my cd collection. Very well.

The grave = nonexistance/total annihilation/whatever =hell.

Basically, saying that hell is the grave is a twee bit poetic. Deal. :rolleyes:
 
Initial statement: "I'm saying it does exist, unless you are planning to argue that there no graves on the earth."

The existence of graves proves only our method of dealing with dead meat.

However, if you wish to expand upon it to say "Grave = nonexistance/total annihilation/whatever =hell", then you must also include that the entire point of discussion revolves around eternal existence, or the soul. Thus nullifying the whole "nonexistance/total annihilation/whatever" bit. Leaving us with what? Holes in the ground.
 
Even better, if you can't handle logical discussion, don't bother replying.

A statement was made. That statement is nullified by logic.
 
Adam, if you can't handle the nuances of civilized conversation, go back to AOL.

Tony and I aren't debating the existence of graves. Your babbling about holes in the ground contributes nothing and only proves your inability to grasp nuances.

/Not bothering with your tripe here anymore
 
Xev:
Adam, if you can't handle the nuances of civilized conversation, go back to AOL.
Click to expand...
From the most foul-mouthed user of sciforums? Funny.

Tony1:
Can you explain how the existence of graves proves the existence of hell, as you previously suggested? I'm eager to hear it.
 
Profanity does not prove inability to communicate. I can well say

Energy and **** matter are **** equivalent

and be correct.

However, inability to understand the nuances of conversation or have a civilized discourse does prove inability to communicate.

In conclusion, closed **** systems tend towards **** disorder. :)

<font color="red">Moderator edit: Strong profanity is unnecessary.</font>
 
Last edited by a moderator:
*Originally posted by Xev
Could we as easily equate the grave with nonexistence?*

Not really, since there is a resurrection in between the two, for those who wish to believe the truth only for a short time.

*Snide reference to Protestant visions of heaven.*

Actually, no.
I don't actually know what clouds might be like in heaven.

*Are they any more or less lies than the Catholic vision of hell and purgatory?*

If they have any expression of staying there for all eternity, they'd be lies equally.

*How many of those who call themselves Christians do?*

Not enough.

*What I argue is this:

While the Catholic idea of hell is not Biblically supported, neither is the contemporary Protestant vision. Thus, it is unfair to single out the Catholic Church as being established by Satan, unless you are willing to say the same for any Protestant sect that preaches the doctrine of Hell and everlasting punishment. *

Who said I wasn't?
Don't forget that a lot of "mainline" denominations sprang directly from the Catholic Church.

*A stunningly idiotic way to spend one's time. *

I'll say.

*Have I ever mentioned my dislike for the Wicca/Witchy/Earth-Mother crap?*

Not to me, as I recall.

*A good definition.
So thus, some Catholics could well be Christians, if they do this? *

Quite likely.
However, the thing that is going to cause them problems, is that the Catholic Church specifically anathematizes, i.e. curses, them.
Thus, they ended up blessed by God, but cursed by their own church.

What did you call that?
Oh yes, a stunningly, etc.

*Originally posted by Adam
A grave is simple a hole for dead meat. Neither proves the existence of hell.*

Whew!!
You're more indoctrinated in Catholic doctrine than I thought.

Hell IS the grave.
The two words are SYNONYMS.

* you must also include that the entire point of discussion revolves around eternal existence, or the soul*

That isn't eternal, either, except in the Catholic/Platonic way of thinking.

The soul that sinneth, it shall die...
(Ezekiel 18:20, KJV).

See how the soul is NOT eternal?
 
Tony1

The soul that sinneth, it shall die...
(Ezekiel 18:20, KJV).

See how the soul is NOT eternal?
Click to expand...
Thanks for that. Now, what about all that talk of burning in lakes of fire and eternal torment? Is that not also mentioned in the same book?
 
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