Israeli/Hamas disregard for human life.

[Buffalo Roam]

Was it because the Jews took it off the Arabs?

P.S. Where is the list of resolutions against Israel that it has complied with?
Whoops, that would be: the empty list.

One resolution (#242, which is in the ignore list) means there's 119 left you haven't mentioned. What's up with that?

P.S guess what Hitler said about Jewish rebellion?
"...the Jews weren't justified in doing anything."

Again it doesn't matter what Hitler said, nothing the Jews could have done was going to change what Hitler and the Nazis had already decided on.

If Hamas makes peace, and sticks to it, thing will change, Hell Israel started the Land for Peace, they made the with drawl. further?

There With Drawls from Palestinian land got them nothing from the Begining, and for every step they with drew they recieved nothing in return but kidnappings, murders, suicide bombings, rocket and mortar attacks, so why should they with draw any further, and why shouldn't they secure defense postitions to protect their Citizen and State.

And were is the list of resolution that the Arabs have complied with.

General Council resolutions have no force of Law, and Security Council Resolution can only be enforce if Countries are willing to supply money and troops.

For all the grand sounding resolutions what has the U.N. really done?

Blame Israel, and then nothing.

So the Resolutions are nothing more than Sound and Fury, signifying nothing, a demonstration of the amount of anti Semitic/Jewish bigotry still in the world.

The same old anti Semitic ideology, as expressed by the Muslims and Nazis/Fascist Skin Heads of the world, along with the Politically Correct, it's always the Jews who are at fault, the great Zionist Conspiracy, the The Protocols of the Elders of Zion (Protocols of the Wise Men of Zion,)

A proven, forgery, fraud, hoax, as well as a clear case of plagiarism.

Slander in plan words of the Jews, their religion, and their aspirations.

 

[Vkothii]

"Mein Kampf"

'Again it doesn't matter what Sharon said, nothing the Arabs could have done was going to change what he and the Zionists had already decided on.
General Council resolutions have no force of Law, and Security Council Resolution can only be enforce if Countries are willing to supply money and troops. [Once the US had begun reinforcing Israel, this was no longer a problem for us.]

For all the grand sounding resolutions what has the U.N. really done? [We are now in a position of overwhelming military strength, our aspirations cannot be gainsaid, by a mere international organisation.]

Blame the Arabs and then nothing [can be directed back at us]

So the Resolutions are nothing more than Sound and Fury, signifying nothing, a demonstration of the amount of anti Semitic/Zionist bigotry still in the world.

The same old anti Semitic ideology, as expressed by the Muslims and Nazis/Fascist Skin Heads of the world, along with the Politically Correct, it's always the Jews who are at fault, the great Zionist Conspiracy, the The Protocols of the Elders of Zion (Protocols of the Wise Men of Zion,)

A proven, forgery, fraud, hoax, as well as a clear case of plagiarism.'

 

[Vkothii]

It's doubleplus ungood.

 

[John99]

Was it because the Jews took it off the Arabs?

took what?

 

[Vkothii]

It, they took it back. This could have been done in a natural, peaceful kind of way as a gradual integration of refugees from WWII, instead of a need for those people in the first place, whose consideration was met despite the existing occupants; WWII created Israel as much as Israel has created a war, with its refugees.

 

[Buffalo Roam]

"Mein Kampf"

'Again it doesn't matter what Sharon said, nothing the Arabs could have done was going to change what he and the Zionists had already decided on.
General Council resolutions have no force of Law, and Security Council Resolution can only be enforce if Countries are willing to supply money and troops. [Once the US had begun reinforcing Israel, this was no longer a problem for us.]

For all the grand sounding resolutions what has the U.N. really done? [We are now in a position of overwhelming military strength, our aspirations cannot be gainsaid, by a mere international organisation.]

Blame the Arabs and then nothing [can be directed back at us]

So the Resolutions are nothing more than Sound and Fury, signifying nothing, a demonstration of the amount of anti Semitic/Zionist bigotry still in the world.

The same old anti Semitic ideology, as expressed by the Muslims and Nazis/Fascist Skin Heads of the world, along with the Politically Correct, it's always the Jews who are at fault, the great Zionist Conspiracy, the The Protocols of the Elders of Zion (Protocols of the Wise Men of Zion,)

A proven, forgery, fraud, hoax, as well as a clear case of plagiarism.'

And exactly what does all this psychobabble mean?

I think you are posting to hear you key pad click.

 

[Vkothii]

Ah, this must be a tripleplus not-doubleplus?

 

[pjdude1219]

Yes, and no, the Arabs weren't justified to do anything.

(as Benny Morris' book 1948: A History of the First Arab-Israeli War explains):

First, "was the immediate Palestinian uprising against the Yishuv [the pre-State Jewish community], and then, after the Palestinian defeat, the coordinated invasion by the armies of Egypt, Syria, Iraq, and Jordan."

So the Palestinians rejected U.N.181 and then when they lost what was in reality a civil war, they called upon the Rest of the Arabs to pull their bacon out of the fire.

nowhere has any source that I have ever seen said that the palestinians asked the other arabs to invade Israel. they asked for them to protect them against the possiblity of a jewish invasion.

And it was all about greed,

The Palestinian population at the time did not feel it was just to partition what they felt was theirs, especially if the partition was imposed by an outside force. They worried about the consequence of the fact that, as a UN document stated at the time, "The Jews will have the more economically developed part of the country embracing practically the whole of the citrus-producing area which includes a large number of Arab producers" and that "the Arab State will not be in a position to undertake considerable development expenditure".

They wanted the land that the Jews had developed into farms for citrus production.

They didn't want to,

"the Arab State will not be in a position to undertake considerable development expenditure"

The Jews took the development expenditure's so why couldn't the Arabs.

First considering the differences in population odds are the arabs made the investment into the fields not the jews. Secondly given that the partitation gave the land best suited for economic growth to the jews where were the palestinians going to get the money to invest?

 

[Buffalo Roam]

nowhere has any source that I have ever seen said that the palestinians asked the other arabs to invade Israel. they asked for them to protect them against the possiblity of a jewish invasion.

First considering the differences in population odds are the arabs made the investment into the fields not the jews. Secondly given that the partitation gave the land best suited for economic growth to the jews where were the palestinians going to get the money to invest?

And where did the Arabs get the money to make that investment? if they developed those farms in the first place?

That was part of the U.N. report of why they wanted the Lands developed by the Jews....

" "the Arab State will not be in a position to undertake considerable development expenditure".

They didn't have the money in the first place.

It takes money to buy the land, it takes money to buy the saplings to plant to have the farms, it takes money to support the farm until the saplings reach maturity and begin to bear fruit, and the Arabs in the British Mandate, west of the Jordan didn't have the resources before U.N. 181 of after U.N. 181 to develop that type of agricultural resource, so they wanted it stolen from the Jews and given to Themselves.

When the U.N. didn't do that, they tried to steal it for themselves.

If you would care to check the maps and do a little research, those agricultural areas, and centers of Jewish population just happened to co-inside, overlap, now why would that be?

Because the Jews bought the land from the Ottoman Empire, and Arab owners, and developed the land, just maybe? Do you think? Hmmmmm?

 

[p-brane]

...the Jews bought the land from the Ottoman Empire, and Arab owners...

Yep.

 

[Buffalo Roam]

nowhere has any source that I have ever seen said that the palestinians asked the other arabs to invade Israel. they asked for them to protect them against the possiblity of a jewish invasion.

What invasion? The invasion of the Arabs into the Land of the Jews?

The Jews owned the lands that were their part of U.N. 181. that is why the boundaries looked like they did.

The Arabs, in Palestine west of the Jordan River started a civil war to throw to Jews out of that land, and steal the agricultural industry of the Jewish investment in that land.

They lost.

They then went to their Arab and Muslim brethren and ask for protection, yes they did, and also for their Arab and Muslim Brethren to destroy the New Israeli State.

The Arabs were more than ready to do so in the Name of the Pan Arab State, do you think the Arabs West of the Jordan in the British Mandate would have objected to Arab rule?

No...under Islam and Muslim theology, the Lands of the Ummah can't be under the ruled of Infidels, Zimmis,...(anyone not a Muslim), and that all land once under the Ummah can never become land for a none Muslim State.

So even before anything else in 1948, the Arabs and Muslims had rejected any Jewish State, on the Productive Lands or the Waste Lands, all those lands were Ummah.

So there never was a Palestinian State, an if the Arabs had won there never would have been a Palestinian State.

That is the reason for the intransigence of the Arabs of Gaza, and the rest of the Muslim World, the Ummah and the command from Mohammed, in Hadith that that Land is never surrendered to any other none Muslim Sate.

 

[StrawDog]

Absolutely

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/7875171.stm

This was a mistake and has been publicly apologized for, and rectified. Honesty prevails. More than can be said for the Western media. Why the smiley face?

 

[StrawDog]

Live by the sword die by the sword sweetheart Maybe it would have been better for Israel to launch rockets randomly into Palestinian neighbourhoods?

Either way, are you claiming that these reports of Hamas torturing/killing political dissidents is not true?

Your comment is exactly like most rightwing American commentary on this forum. In fact it is identical. There are more News services than CNN and AOL.

 

[StrawDog]

StrawDog---Does it really matter what is going on in Palestine, so long as civilians are dying? Shouldn't the first order of business be to end whatever it is that is killing civilians?

Most definitely. Dialogue should be the first order of the day. As Israel has not recognized Hamas (Democratically elected) as the government of Gaza this has been an issue. If peace is honestly and objective for Israel, negotiations could have been initiated without the old and tired "Hamas does not recognize Israel" mantra been regurgitated as an excuse.

This is why I rarely post in here, because no one can discuss these issues with a straight face.

These are discussion forums. Posters come in all shapes, sizes and bullshit.

The point is, no one is without blood on their hands, not Hamas, not the UN, not the Israeli army...no one. The world expects Palestinian civilians to be treated as civilians by the Israelis when Hamas is waging a guerilla war and using those civilians as shields, while disregarding Israel's basic right to be. This is not to mention the fact that Hamas cares little for the lives of Israeli civilians. Israel expects the world to understand it's actions when they refuse to take basic steps to minimize civilian casualties, even though Hamas blatantly refuses to follow the same accords. And the UN has utterly failed at pretty much everything it has ever done, from preventing genocides in Sudan, Rwanda, and Chechnya, to preventing wars in Korea, Vietnam, and Iraq (even though this is explicitly mentioned in the UN charter), to preventing nuclear proliferation, to (...). Ah, right, except of course for delivering aid to people in need, when the conditions aren't too dangerous.

That is a fair take Ben. Unfortunately history, and the events at play in Palestine today lay the responsibility of correcting wrongs at the feet of Israel.

Assigning blame in this conflict is like trying to count sand, or stars or something. SAM is 100% correct when she says that the Israelis have literally starved the Palestinians for the past few months. Does this justify Hamas randomly shooting rockets at civilians in Israel? Does this, in turn, justify an invasion of the West Bank in which it seems that Israeli soldiers took little regard for collateral damages? Does this excuse Hamas for it's rounding up and killing and torturing its political adversaries?

No random violence is justifiable. As this is a an alleged "war", the rules of war apply, as can be seen from your comments above.

Most people who post in this forum are content to sit back and assign blame instead of understand the reasons behind actions---whether it's SAM blaming America for it's imperialism, or Buffalo Roam making blatant statements about Muslims. This is why, in my humble opinion, this forum shouldn't exist---it's primary purpose is solely for people to stand on soap boxes, making ignorant points, whilst ignoring the person to your left doing exactly the same thing. There is nothing "intelligent" or "scientific" about the discourse here.

That is a very short sighted view, and is exactly (in a nutshell) why there is not dialogue between Israel and Hamas. This forum SHOULD exist, are you trying to clamp down on free speech and discussion? If you read SAM`s posts thoughtfully, you will learn a great deal.

I know, it makes you feel better---you can understand things in terms of "right" and "wrong". Maybe, you think, by screaming loud enough, or derailing enough conversations, people who were diametrically opposed to your opinion may just start to understand your privileged insight, all the while ignoring the fact that everyone else here is doing the same thing... The fact is, the situation is fucked up now, it has been, and if people are only content to sit back and assign blame, then it always will be.

It seems you started this thread in response to my thread. I started my thread to raise awareness of the facts of a genocidel onslaught of a defenseless population by a utterly superior military. The pot is calling the kettle black.

 

[StrawDog]

And it all started with the Arabs ignoring U.N. Resolution 181 didn't it?

The Arabs ignored U.N. 181 and went to war in a land grab to destroy the Israeli State.

You also forget all the Resolutions that the Palestinians have ignored over the years also.

We all know that these resolutions were enacted without involving the Arabs and Palestinians on the matter. The Palestinians had EVERY RIGHT to ignore resolutions that did not involve their participation. Exactly, once again, what is happening in Gaza today. Hamas is not consulted in dialogue.

 

[StrawDog]

Jews are Israelis, they have alwasy been Israelis.

They are the people of Israel.

But if it makes you feel better:

There has been violence against Jews long before there was a Israel.

That is BS and you know it.

 

[pjdude1219]

And where did the Arabs get the money to make that investment? if they developed those farms in the first place?

That was part of the U.N. report of why they wanted the Lands developed by the Jews....

controlling trade routes.

They didn't have the money in the first place.

It takes money to buy the land, it takes money to buy the saplings to plant to have the farms, it takes money to support the farm until the saplings reach maturity and begin to bear fruit, and the Arabs in the British Mandate, west of the Jordan didn't have the resources before U.N. 181 of after U.N. 181 to develop that type of agricultural resource, so they wanted it stolen from the Jews and given to Themselves.

When the U.N. didn't do that, they tried to steal it for themselves.

more baseless anti arab/muslim comments from you. I have not seen the proof that the jews were the reason the fields were productive.

If you would care to check the maps and do a little research, those agricultural areas, and centers of Jewish population just happened to co-inside, overlap, now why would that be?

Because the Jews bought the land from the Ottoman Empire, and Arab owners, and developed the land, just maybe? Do you think? Hmmmmm?

or maybe a far more likely scenario they bought it pre devolped.

 

[pjdude1219]

What invasion? The invasion of the Arabs into the Land of the Jews?

What arab invasion of jewish lands? the arabs were in the arab section.

[QUOTE}he Jews owned the lands that were their part of U.N. 181. that is why the boundaries looked like they did.[/QUOTE] the jews owned 7% of the land and got 50% of it that makes you a liar.

The Arabs, in Palestine west of the Jordan River started a civil war to throw to Jews out of that land, and steal the agricultural industry of the Jewish investment in that land.

First off you have yet to show that it was jewish investment. secondly they didn't want the jews out the just didn't want a jewish state. The fact that all the jews there were zionists and were demanding a state doesn't mean they wanted the jews gone.

They lost.

Thanks to the advantages the british ensured the jews had with their policies.

They then went to their Arab and Muslim brethren and ask for protection, yes they did, and also for their Arab and Muslim Brethren to destroy the New Israeli State.

more lies from the biggest liar here. The palestinians merely wanted protection from jewish arggression. they felt that Israel would get aggressive and fall like the crusader states.

So even before anything else in 1948, the Arabs and Muslims had rejected any Jewish State, on the Productive Lands or the Waste Lands, all those lands were Ummah.

Once again showing no knowledge of the opposing side. but than again knowing jack shit and claiming to know alot about something is your style.

So there never was a Palestinian State, an if the Arabs had won there never would have been a Palestinian State.

irrelevant. the had ans still have the right of selfdetermination that arab and Israeli alike have denied them.

That is the reason for the intransigence of the Arabs of Gaza, and the rest of the Muslim World, the Ummah and the command from Mohammed, in Hadith that that Land is never surrendered to any other none Muslim Sate.

Wrong as usual.

 

[StrawDog]

I don't hate the Palestinians either, but they are on the wrong end of this.

You display a fanatical partisan view in favour of Israel, the oppressor. Vkotii seems accurate in his appraisal that you seem to have Fascist views.

 

[Buffalo Roam]

You display a fanatical partisan view in favour of Israel, the oppressor. Vkotii seems accurate in his appraisal that you seem to have Fascist views.

And since when did Facist support Israel?

All the Facist I know of hate Jews, like You and Vkotii, according to them the Jews are responsable for all of the problems in the world.

Both of you display a fanatical partisan view in favour of the Palestinian anti-semites, that is right out of Hitlers nightmare, remember he hated the Jews too, the same as both you and Vkotii.

His matra was the same it is always the Jews fault, seems that is your mantra to.:bugeye: