GeoffP said:
Sorry you got in trouble with your wife with the MSc.
I should also then ask: who are muslims to criticize Western values and principles? Who are they to riot over cartoons? Who are you to demand to know which nation I come from? And - again - why would that matter?
I confess to feeling a little insulted myself.
Regrettably, the setting of "separate roles" for women in the Quran, the permission to beat them (Q 4:11) and their subordinate status in matters of jurisprudence and inheritance mean that women are not equals in islamic law - sharia. Find any country today where sharia is applied and there are always restrictions on women that do not apply to any man. Whether it be driving or attending school, sharia places restrictions on women. Where women enjoy freedoms in an islamic country, it's the result of modern Western influences, not the offshoot of sharia. Iraq, for example, elected a highly religious government and already there are those showing up to restrict women's integration into Iraqi society. You do the math.
If one places a man in the position of near godhood, such that he is the "al-insar al-kamil", the "perfect man" for all muslims to emulate for all time, and if that man is in fact flawed, deeply, horribly flawed, then there's a problem. My issue isn't with muslims; it's with what muslims do to non-muslims, and it's how non-muslims are treated in islamic countries. No amount of pleading that these countries aren't "truly" muslim will make my criticisms of the deliberate oppression of "kufr" by muslims in those nations go away.
So, I'm not listening to any propaganda - merely reading my Quran, and the hadiths, and the opinions of muslims around the world. If hate and oppression is being spewed from the mosques and streets and televisions of those quarters day in and day out, it is not my fault.
Look inward.
Geoff
Its strange geoff how the USA has not had a Women President yet, but even Pakistan has had a Women prime minister.
Please geoff why so much hatred, I dont see where the Quran puts any mortal man in God like or near god Like status, that is completely wrong in islam and that is one of the only differences between christians and muslims in the fact the christians think Jesus (PBUH) is the son of God and thus God.
Rreligious toleraance in the Quran, you must have missed these bits when you read your Quran
The Messenger [Muhammad] believes in what has been revealed to him from his Lord, as do the [people] men of faith. Each one [of them] believes in Allah, His angels, His books, and His Messengers. 'We make no distinction' (they say) between one and another of his Messengers, And they say: 'We hear and we obey: [we seek] thy forgiveness, our Lord, and to Thee is the end of all journeys T.Q. Sura 2, The Cow. verse 285.
And another
The same religion has He established for you as that which He enjoined on Noah -that which we have sent by inspiration to you- and that which we enjoined on Abraham, Moses, and Jesus: Namely, that ye should remain steadfast in Religion, and make no divisions therein. T.Q. Sura 42, The Consultation, verse 13.
and another
'We believe in Allah, and the revelation given to us, and to Abraham, Ishmael, Isaac, Jacob, and the Tribes, and that given to Moses and Jesus, and that given to (all) Prophets from their Lord; We make no difference between one and another of them and we bow to Allah in adherence and submission. T.Q., Sura 2, The Cow, verse 136.
lets now look at womens rights and stuff,
womens rights are:
The right and duty to obtain education.
The right to have their own independent property.
The right to work to earn money if they need it or want it.
Equality of reward for equal deeds.
The right to participate fully in public life and have their voices heard by those in power.
The right to provisions from the husband for all her needs and more.
The right to negotiate marriage terms of her choice.
The right to obtain divorce from her husband, even on the grounds that she simply can't stand him.
The right to keep all her own money (she is not responsible to maintain any relations).
The right to get sexual satisfaction from her husband.
Hiopefully some of my thoughts are giving you a different perspective on Muslims attitude to life and to others.
geoff please dont get upset with me cos i am asking where you are from, its only a little fun and sorry for winding you up so much.
It seems you intolerance of Muslims is like these so called muslims intolerance about others you speak of.
Anwyay geoff this lot should be in another thread,
take care now and i hope to hear from you soon.
God bless
