The Palestinians have lived in poverty for 60 years and counting, thanks to those Ashkenazim and Sephardim that stole their land.
Israel begins sell-off of refugees' land
- Thread starter StrawDog
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Mizrach just means "East". So it basically means anyone East of Israel...which is Iraq, Iran, etc etc. Now consider their land was confiscated pre-1948...now analyze the chronology of your statement again and it just so happens you made a statement in support of myself!
Also meaning "Easteners" ie. Middle Eastern, ie. Palestinian Jews. I have no issue with Mizrahim, who have some kind of link to the land. Its the foreigners (East Europeans) who have caused the problems.
Since you don't get it.
The Mizrachi lived in Iran, Iraq, Egypt, Yemen etc etc...those are the people who had over $650 billion stolen from them.
Then you said...
The Mizrachim were the first settlers of the land and outnumber Ashkenazim.
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The Jews had property confiscated in the post WWII era due to NAZI propaganda reaching the Arab world...now let's look at the Country of Origin of Israel.
Mizrahi Jews, and Sephardic Jews 49.4%
Ashkenazi Jews 47.6%
---
European & Former Soviet Union 20.9%
Morocco 15.2%
Poland 8.3%
Iraq 7.7%
Romania 7.6%
Yemen 4.9%
Iran 4.0%
Algeria/Tunisia 3.8%
...
..
.
The Arabs kicked people out of their lands and stole their money... so they moved to Israel. Why don't those countries give back the assets to the Palestinians (Their brethren) to make all well in the land?
Not to mention the others had pretty compelling reasons to flee as well...
The Mizrachi lived in Iran, Iraq, Egypt, Yemen etc etc...those are the people who had over $650 billion stolen from them.
Then you said...
The Mizrachim were the first settlers of the land and outnumber Ashkenazim.
----------------------
The Jews had property confiscated in the post WWII era due to NAZI propaganda reaching the Arab world...now let's look at the Country of Origin of Israel.
Mizrahi Jews, and Sephardic Jews 49.4%
Ashkenazi Jews 47.6%
---
European & Former Soviet Union 20.9%
Morocco 15.2%
Poland 8.3%
Iraq 7.7%
Romania 7.6%
Yemen 4.9%
Iran 4.0%
Algeria/Tunisia 3.8%
...
..
.
The Arabs kicked people out of their lands and stole their money... so they moved to Israel. Why don't those countries give back the assets to the Palestinians (Their brethren) to make all well in the land?
Not to mention the others had pretty compelling reasons to flee as well...
WillNever
Valued Senior Member
QUERY: What do you propose happens to the Irsraeli families who bought this formerly refugee land? Your automatic reaction might be "kick them off so that the Palestinian refugees can come back." But then you aren't thinking of the ramicifactions this has for individual Jewish people, which aren't fair.
Firstly, if the law somehow prohibits palestinians from purchasing the land, then it's a bad law. However, if I'm not mistaken, Jewish people have to pay for that property. And many if not most Jewish people probably have no idea about these weird laws. Kicking them off without due compensation would be immoral. They have lives and children too. Telling them to hit the road makes you no better than anyone else, and it is not the fault of recently born Israelis that they were born on the benefitting side. If you want someone to blame, blame the Israeli government instead of blaming (and wanting to punish) the Israeli people who just want to live their lives.
People need to stop looking this in terms of ethnic affiliation. You have to see with better eyes than that, at the individuals who your proposals are hurting.
Firstly, if the law somehow prohibits palestinians from purchasing the land, then it's a bad law. However, if I'm not mistaken, Jewish people have to pay for that property. And many if not most Jewish people probably have no idea about these weird laws. Kicking them off without due compensation would be immoral. They have lives and children too. Telling them to hit the road makes you no better than anyone else, and it is not the fault of recently born Israelis that they were born on the benefitting side. If you want someone to blame, blame the Israeli government instead of blaming (and wanting to punish) the Israeli people who just want to live their lives.
People need to stop looking this in terms of ethnic affiliation. You have to see with better eyes than that, at the individuals who your proposals are hurting.
These Jewish people are moving from Russia, Europe and the US to occupy Palestinian lands for a 2000 year old mythology. If you chase rainbows for pots of gold, you shouldn't be surprised if all you get is blisters on your feet.
Meanwhile:
"Judea" and "Samaria" being the illegally occupied West Bank. Assholes.
Video
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qcmjR-cVu8w
Meanwhile:
"Judea" and "Samaria" being the illegally occupied West Bank. Assholes.
Video
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qcmjR-cVu8w
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but there is legal precedent for taking things from people when it was gained illegally. Take the art work returned to the jews after the nazis stole it. If they want compensation let the Israeli government compensate them but the people it was stolen from shouldn't have to pay to get their own fucking land back.
The people currently residing on it who gained it illegally don't matter more than those it was stolen from.
Um the arabs only kicked out the jews AFTER the jews expelled the arabs. and to make all well would be the palestinians getting palestine back.
I also read that Jews are trying to get "compensation" for the supposed billions they had in Arab lands. While living in a land they stole.
Breaking News!!
http://www.latimes.com/news/opinion/commentary/la-oe-gordon20-2009aug20,0,6144555,print.story
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Challenger78
Valued Senior Member
The Israelis who move into those houses know the full cost of what they paid for, and it is not in dollars. Are you serious ? Who would pay for something and not know where it is located, and what had been done to acquire it ?
We had that argument too, On the case of Aboriginals, and you know what ? We still apologized. Because even though it is not our fault, we are still benefiting from the crimes that white forefathers committed. Do I hear an apology from the Israel government, or demands for one from the population ? No.
Holy moly. :m:
WillNever
Valued Senior Member
No one is "owed" an apology from people who weren't actually the ones to harm them, and the fact of the matter is that most Israelis have never done anything to harm a Palestinian person. It's the government you have to blame, not the people at large. The only thing you can blame most Israeli people for is for supporting illegal actions of their government -- but not simply for living on land. Countries around the world were built this way, so I honestly don't care about "we as a people lived here first" arguments. Unless you are a first generation palestinian who was kicked off the land, then you aren't owed anything. The palestinians who were born after that period have no claim to it, pure and simple. The whole of Egypt was conquered by foreignborn muslims who decided to take over and occupy the place. You think that if some ancient Eygptians who followed the old gods were to emerge and say they wanted their country back... that the muslims in Egypt would actually hand it over? The answer is no, because today's muslims weren't the ones who tore the place up. They believe (and are correct) that the land is now theirs.
It doesn't matter if the Israeli government is the one to compensate the Israelis for that land or if it's the Palestinians who want that land. The point is that someone has to compensate them. Those families don't deserve to be deprived of their wealth and their way of life either. Taking it away from them won't bring an end to suffering. It would merely be a transferrance of suffering onto other people who, in most cases, didn't do anything bad. That is not a noble aspiration, and that is why the Israelis are there to stay.
Also, about world world II: Actual concentration camp victims who SURVIVED were paid reparations. There were no reparations paid to surviving relatives of Holocaust victims, in most cases. Usually, what the survivors received was a stipend. And some Holocaust victims (Jewish or not) were able to recover stolen artwork -- and only if it was stolen, not purchased. Most of the artwork recovered was held in museums owned by the state, not by private citizens.
It doesn't matter if the Israeli government is the one to compensate the Israelis for that land or if it's the Palestinians who want that land. The point is that someone has to compensate them. Those families don't deserve to be deprived of their wealth and their way of life either. Taking it away from them won't bring an end to suffering. It would merely be a transferrance of suffering onto other people who, in most cases, didn't do anything bad. That is not a noble aspiration, and that is why the Israelis are there to stay.
Also, about world world II: Actual concentration camp victims who SURVIVED were paid reparations. There were no reparations paid to surviving relatives of Holocaust victims, in most cases. Usually, what the survivors received was a stipend. And some Holocaust victims (Jewish or not) were able to recover stolen artwork -- and only if it was stolen, not purchased. Most of the artwork recovered was held in museums owned by the state, not by private citizens.
Are you kidding me? They all go into the IDF, they all occupy land they know belongs to Palestinians and most of them will accept any frigging Jew from around the world while Palestinians are kicked out of their homes.
They are all complicit in millions of stories like this:
They are all occupiers.
And what is the sin of these Palestinians? They all live in their own homes or wish to, where the Jews base their mythological state.
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Before making that leap, the Israeli gov should not be selling land that does not belong to them.
Having made that leap, the Israeli gov would have to reimburse and compensate its citizens for having sold them property illegally.
The binding law, as articulated in the documentation, should remain in place until a final peace deal is negotiated or achieved, obviously with agreement by both parties.
Yes, of course.
Israel is ALL about ethnic and religious affiliation. Thus breaking laws on behalf of Jews is not acceptable.
WillNever
Valued Senior Member
Blowing themselves up in Jewish supermarkets is a sin. Oh wait.. not all of them do that. Well, the same holds true for the Jews you are describing. You can name countless stories all you want, but what are you going to do, prosecute every Jew until you get everyone who did it? Even if most act that way, the bottom line is that a ton probably do not... and condoning a resolution that punishes even a *few* innocents for things they didn't do would mean that you support some pretty horrible ideals. Punishing everyone for something you don't like is barbaric and you would object if it were happening to the Palestinians.
Anyone who entertains such a double-dealing mentality probably does not side with the Palestinians on moral or legal grounds... but instead on grounds that are based on (or influenced by) their ethnicity and/or culture.
There is a vast difference between you being shot in your home by a robber and you shooting the robber in your own home. The one is a crime, the other self defence. I dare anyone confronted by a killer in their own home to not defend themselves. The Jews should stick their mythology where the sun don't shine and join the rest of the world in the current century.
Buffalo Roam
Registered Senior Member
So did that make it legal? did that even make it moral? and guess what, U.N. 141 doesn't mention Palestinians, it applies to all refugees, even the right of return or reimbursement for land lost that belonged to the Jews.
So, until the Jews are paid for, or given the right of return to their lands, it is a even trade, now the most interesting thing about the who deal is that the Jews took in the refugees from all the Arab lands and integrated them into their society, what did the Arabs do?
Shit all over their Arab Palestinian brethren, there are no refugee camps in Israel for displaced Jews from Arab Countries, but every Arab country has refugee camps for displaced Arabs from the Palestine.
The Arab countries took over 4 times as much Jewish land and property as there is in all of Israel, and still can't find a way to settle the Arabs of Palestine into that land, or integrate then into their societies, yes, so sad, to bad, it is the Arabs and Fellow Muslims who are the ones who have screwed the Arabs of Palestine, even today Egypt still blockades the border of Gaza and strictly limits access from Gaza into Egypt, Jordan does the same, and Jordan is the homeland of the Palestinians.
WillNever
Valued Senior Member
What are you basing your perceptions on exactly..? The normal, everday Jews who are buying property are not "killers." That's just dehumanizing crappola, and anyone who would believe that crappola -- and then use it an excuse to kill others -- is dangerously deluded. Blowing yourself up in a supermarket to kill a whole bunch of innocent people (including children) is not "self defense."
And as I said before, the only Palestinians who have any claim to any property are the ones who owned it in their lifetime, not their relatives or their future generations.
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