Israel begins sell-off of refugees' land

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SAM, those graphs don't prove that most Palestinians haven't killed at least one Israeli, nor does it prove that most Israelis have killed at least one Palestinian. All they suggest is that Israelis have killed more Palestinians than the other way around.
 
I'll be happy to see those statistics. Meanwhile all Israelis join the IDF [except for the religious nutsos who nevertheless support the settlement enterprise and beat up Palestinians in "Judea" and "Samaria" ], all Palestinians are not militants.
 
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I'll also be happy to see statistics showing that most Israelis have killed at least one Palestinian each too. And since killing without established cause is immoral, my claim is going to prevail here.

Meanwhile all Israelis join the IDF [except for the religious nutsos who nevertheless support the settlement enterprise and beat up Palestinians in "Judea" and "Samaria" ], all Palestinians are not militants.
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That doesn't make any difference. Being part of a military force does not make you deserving of death.
 
I think the toddlers and kids probably haven't had a turn yet. There is a significant number of them. Is it most?

They can't wait to grow up though:

israeli-children-bombs-leba.jpg


WillNever said:
That doesn't make any difference. Being part of a military force does not make you deserving of death.
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Its an occupation army. They enlist to harm Palestinians and deprive them of their rights.
 
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And still the proof doesn't come. Why am I not surprised?

The final analysis: if you can't prove that the Israelis you kill haven't actually done anything to kill anyone (and this applies to most), then you shouldn't be killing those Israelis. I can't imagine anyone arguing against that -- unless they have a deep hatred of all others outside of their own religion.
 
What proof? You made the statement, its upto you to support it, I have given sufficient evidence that most Israelis join a military, kill or injure Palestinians, demolish their homes, unlawfully imprison them and beat them without being held accountable. They are protected by the social, political and justice system in their acts.

More:


Mossawa is supported by the Human Rights Program of the European Commission and the United Nations Democracy Foundation.

The report, written by Mossawa director Jafar Farah and others, mainly examines racism against Arabs in Israel, using criteria taken from the anti-Semitism reports in Europe.

The report covers Arabs killed by the security forces and by Jewish citizens, anti-Arab incitement by leading Jewish public figures, workforce discrimination by private Jewish organizations, the barring of Arabs from public places, and the destruction of Arab property. The report particularly highlights what it calls the government's helplessness in the face of the problem.

The report lists Arab citizens killed by police, soldiers, security guards and Jewish civilians over the past seven years. It notes that only one Jewish citizen, of Ethiopian origin, was killed under similar circumstances during this period. Indictments were issued in only seven cases, the report states. In two cases, the assailants were found not guilty, and the State Prosecutor appealed the verdict in one of these cases. In another case, the indictment was dropped because the shooter was deemed mentally unfit to stand trial.

Most cases of Arab citizens injured by Jews were not fully investigated, and the attackers were not indicted in most cases, according to the report.

However, the report says Arab violence against Jews led to immediate police action, including collective punishment in villages like Jisr al-Zarqa this month.

The report also highlights employment discrimination against Arabs, and accuses the Industry, Trade and Labor Ministry of foot-dragging in enforcing the workplace anti-discrimination law.

Citing lawsuits and verdicts of recent years, the report states Arabs are subject to racial profiling at Israel's airports. "Problematic passenger" forms, filled out by security guards and bearing the names of Arab passengers, were found in Israel Airports Authority files. Similar cases occured at train stations and on trains, the report stated.
http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/966014.html
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That is "most Israelis" who harm Palestinians in one way or another.
 
willnever said:
The final analysis: if you can't prove that the Israelis you kill haven't actually done anything to kill anyone (and this applies to most), then you shouldn't be killing those Israelis.
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Although it is unwise to kill without immediate necessity, it's hard to argue that any Israeli is free of responsibility for the conduct of their military and other forces over all these years.

That is, almost any Palestinian is probably justified in killing almost any Israeli adult, in self defense if nothing else.

They shouldn't, of course. But they have cause.
 
S.A.M. said:
, I have given sufficient evidence that most Israelis join a military, kill or injure Palestinians, demolish their homes, unlawfully imprison them and beat them without being held accountable. They are protected by the social, political and justice system in their acts.

More:




That is "most Israelis" who harm Palestinians in one way or another.
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Where is evidence that most Israelis have killed or injured Palestinians? Where is evidence that most Israelis have demolished a Palestinian home? Where is evidence that most Israelis have unlawfully impirisoned and beaten a Palestinian person?

You haven't provided evidence of any of that. You haven't even provided evidence that most Israelis have done just *one* of those things.


What proof? You made the statement, its upto you to support it
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Nay, I don't have any plans to kill anyone. It would be up to Palestinians to prove that most Israelis have killed somebody, if they too wanted to engage in killing. Otherwise it's wrong. :cool:
 
Sorry doesn't compute. If you make the claim, you provide the evidence. This is purpotedly a science site, so you can ask the mods.
 
iceaura said:
That is, almost any Palestinian is probably justified in killing almost any Israeli adult, in self defense if nothing else.
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Actually that would just be murder. Killing any Israeli adult indiscriminately is not self defense. Defense how? You would be assaulting someone who probably never hurt you ever. They may a citizen of a government you don't like, but that doesn't give you a right to kill people.
 
S.A.M. said:
Sorry doesn't compute. If you make the claim, you provide the evidence. This is purpotedly a science site, so you can ask the mods.
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We can stop right there. That's codespeak for "I can't actually find a legit justification for advocating the indiscriminate use of violence against Israelis."

The fact of the matter is that if you want to kill someone, you need a reason to do it. So unless someone can show that most Israelis have killed, then we have no basis for killing them.
 
Quite frankly the idea that you think I need to scientifically support a claim that most people in a country have not committted a murder is both hilarious and sad at the same time.

In the meantime, I'm going to report all these unsupported claims right now:

"Most Israelis join a military, kill or injure Palestinians, demolish their homes, unlawfully imprison them and beat them without being held accountable."
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Saying you've supported them and providing stories,isn't the same as actually providing numbers showing that most Israelis have done each of these things -- which is what you said. That means it's trolling, and it's being reported.

Done and done.

Mod Note: (link below)

You Report- We Decide.http://www.sciforums.com/showpost.php?p=2350681&postcount=27
 
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You seem to be under the delusion that most Israelis do not want to kill Palestinians, when all polls show that they do:

Poll shows most Israelis back IDF action in Gaza

Despite pictures from Gaza depicting massive destruction and a large number of wounded and killed, including women and children, 82 percent of the public believe that Israel has not "gone too far" with the military force it is exercising against Hamas.

This means that almost all Israel's Jewish citizens warmly support the operation, its goals, firepower and management.

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1055564.html
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All of these individuals serve in the IDF or support its actions.

And they even recruit children:

Child recruitment to the IDF is a serious social problem that needs to be addressed promptly, a report released Thursday by a nonprofit organization indicates.

The report, "Child Recruitment in Israel," investigates different ways in which children under 18 participate in the army. It was conducted by New Profile, an Israeli organization that opposes mandatory army service and its effects on society.

"This issue has been raised in the world and it's about time it's raised in Israel," said Sergey Sandler, one of the report's three authors. "We hope will lead to public debate."

According to Sandler, involving Israeli children in army-related activities prior to the legal age of 18 is prevalent throughout Israeli society, including in the educational system. He added that recruiting children under the age of 15 is considered a crime by the International Court of Justice.

"They're considered responsible for actions from age 18, but we weapons and the possibility to be hurt from the age of 16," Sandler said.

Neta Rotem, who also wrote the report, cited as an example children who train for Gadna, the paramilitary youth battalion, who are placed under the supervision of army commanders.

"It's a summer camp and they learn what soldiers do, how to search houses, and work at checkpoints," Rotem said. "But it really is recruitment. It's training for the army."


http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=124x75864
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CheskiChips said:
The Negev has no water resources. If war were to occur everyone there would be outside of Israel's capability of defense. It's militarily, economic, and socially bad idea to colonize the Negev.
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I believe I read that 33% of Israel's drinking water supplies now come from nuclear powered desalination plants that remove salts from ocean water. If you invest in more of that instead of more trailers in the middle of Palestinian land, together with tree planting and similar terraforming projects, you can make the Negev habitable. It would be much easier and less costly than sending extremists to live on other peoples' lands.

As for the argument that orthodox families are having 8-10 kids: maybe they should stop doing that if they feel the land they live on is too small. And secular Israelis shouldn't have to pay a penny for their exploits. Otherwise, these giant orthodox clans should move somewhere else where they'd be welcomed and wouldn't be displacing anyone already living there.
 
S.A.M. said:
You seem to be under the delusion that most Israelis do not want to kill Palestinians, when all polls show that they do:



All of these individuals serve in the IDF or support its actions.

And they even recruit children:
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SAM, support by the People that the Government didn't go far enough in Gaza, isn't a indication of wanting to murder all Palestinians, it is a recognition that the Israeli Government didn't go far enough to end the problem of incessant attacks, and that all it did was allow Hamas to escape to kill again and keep the e Israeli People under the threat of daily attacks from Hamas and the Palestinians.

You bigotry is running amuck, and you really need a dose of reality, even I recognize that not all Palestinians/Muslims want to murder all Israelis Jews, just as I also know that all Israelis don't want to murder all Palestinians/Muslims.
 
Buffalo Roam said:
SAM, support by the People that the Government didn't go far enough in Gaza, isn't a indication of wanting to murder all Palestinians, it is a recognition that the Israeli Government didn't go far enough to end the problem of incessant attacks, and that all it did was allow Hamas to escape to kill again and keep the e Israeli People under the threat of daily attacks from Hamas and the Palestinians.

You bigotry is running amuck, and you really need a dose of reality, even I recognize that not all Palestinians/Muslims want to murder all Israelis Jews, just as I also know that all Israelis don't want to murder all Palestinians/Muslims.
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Well considering what the ROE amounted too um SAM's right if their complaining that the government didn't go far enough enough they are in fact more or less advocating the whole sale slaughter of palestinians. I mean hell IDF soldiers have already come out and said in Gaza the basic idea was shoot anything that moves.
 
pjdude1219 said:
Well considering what the ROE amounted too um SAM's right if their complaining that the government didn't go far enough enough they are in fact more or less advocating the whole sale slaughter of palestinians. I mean hell IDF soldiers have already come out and said in Gaza the basic idea was shoot anything that moves.
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So you can post the ROE? please do.

Provide proof that it was kill anything that moves, if it was Gaza would have looked like Lidice, and the Israelis would now be eating dinner in Gaza, and enjoying the beaches on the Mediterranean.
 
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