Israel begins sell-off of refugees' land

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Sam: "I didn't mint the coin, the Nazis did"

So don't take up the task again, whatever your "reason".

"Tony Greenstein has written an excellent piece on it over at Jewdas."

No, no thanks, I've had enough, we get it. Nobody likes repeating messages, so I won't give them.
 
hypewaders said:
Sam: "I didn't mint the coin, the Nazis did"

So don't take up the task again, whatever your "reason".

"Tony Greenstein has written an excellent piece on it over at Jewdas."

No, no thanks, I've had enough, we get it.
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Ah you've had enough of anti-racism? That was quick.
 
I wouldn't have thought you'd be one to be daunted by Tony's habit of lengthy deatiled and pedantic prose.

But one never knows.
 
CheskiChips said:
Not really.
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Because why? Seeing "the Jews" in terms of a large collectively acting group makes it easier for you to condone violence against them, even when you know that on an individual basis, most Israelis have never directly harmed any Palestinians in their lives. That is why. It's time people start thinking in terms that aren't primitive.
 
WillNever said:
most Israelis have never directly harmed any Palestinians in their lives
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How do you define most? The country is militarised and all Israelis, male and female are drafted into military service after high school and then perform a months service [or two months] every year.

By this measure, what percentage of Israelis has not participated in the occupation? They elected into government a man whose favourite slogan is "death to Arabs" mavet la aravim which is also the chant you can hear over here in the old city on Jerusalem day

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pi4diaJU1Sw.

Secondly, this is the society we are talking about:
Over half Israeli Jews believes the marriage of a Jewish woman to an Arab man is equal to national treason and over 75 percent do not approve of apartment buildings being shared between Arabs and Jews. 60% would not allow an Arab to visit their home and about 40% agreed that “Arabs should have their right to vote for Knesset revoked”. Over half agreed that Israel should encourage its Arab citizens to emigrate from the country and would not want to work under the direct management of an Arab. 55 % said “Arabs and Jews should be separated at entertainment sites”. When asked what they thought of Arab culture, over 37 percent replied, “The Arab culture is inferior.” 27.3.07. Indeed a total of 62 percent of Israelis want the government to encourage local Arabs to leave the country, according to the 2006 democracy index by the Israel Democracy Institute.

http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3381978,00.html
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At the height of anti-semitism in Germany, the figures on hating Jews were lower for the German population with most Germans disagreeing with the practices of the Third Reich. What does this say about the people of Israel and Zionism?
 
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The idea that it is an occupation is not universal, SAM. Them being there isn't actually killing Palestinians, which most haven't done. Killing people for occupying land isn't an excuse either, if you end up killing people who didn't harm anybody. There is never an excuse to justify the killing of innocents, and if it is wrong in one situation, then it is wrong in all situations. Even if just one innocent Israeli dies as a result of some violent takeover by Palestinians in some town somewhere, then it is not justified.

I honestly don't care what the mentalities of the Jews are. I believe in letting people make their own choices in life, and I draw the line only when their choices hurt others. The only acceptable retaking of Israeli land by Palestinians would be through nonviolent means.
 
WillNever said:
The idea that it is an occupation is not universal, SAM. Them being there isn't actually killing Palestinians, which most haven't done. Killing people for occupying land isn't an excuse either, if you end up killing people who didn't harm anybody. There is never an excuse to justify the killing of innocents, and if it is wrong in one situation, then it is wrong in all situations. Even if just one innocent Israeli dies as a result of some violent takeover by Palestinians in some town somewhere, then it is not justified.

I honestly don't care what the mentalities of the Jews are. I believe in letting people make their own choices in life, and I draw the line only when their choices hurt others. The only acceptable retaking of Israeli land by Palestinians would be through nonviolent means.
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So let me know how many Israelis have not hurt Palestinians so as to steal and hold on to their land. Any statistics?

And wrt the video above:

The video won’t mean much to you if you are unfamiliar with the Old City in Jerusalem and if you don’t understand Hebrew. In both cases you will miss what the action is all about. So, let me explain. What you will see in the video is a crowd of gung-ho happy young religious idealists marching through the Arab quarter of the Old City of Jerusalem. Let me repeat, the Arab quarter. From time to time you also see Israeli police and barricades, neither of which stop the young men from progressing in their march and chanting. And what are they chanting at the beginning? “Arabs go home,” meaning, Arabs get out (sound familiar? like ‘Juden raus,’ i.e., the Nazi’s ‘Jews out’? These young men indeed fit that much of the Nazi image well, except appear to be less disciplined). Following that, these nice sweet young bullies start chanting loudly in the Arab quarter (let me repeat: in the Arab quarter) of the Old City, “Death to the Arabs.”

http://rete-eco.it/it/documenti/35-riflessioni/1950-jerusalem-day-in-the-old-city-of-jerusalem.html
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WillNever said:
The idea that it is an occupation is not universal, SAM. Them being there isn't actually killing Palestinians, which most haven't done. Killing people for occupying land isn't an excuse either, if you end up killing people who didn't harm anybody. There is never an excuse to justify the killing of innocents, and if it is wrong in one situation, then it is wrong in all situations. Even if just one innocent Israeli dies as a result of some violent takeover by Palestinians in some town somewhere, then it is not justified.

I honestly don't care what the mentalities of the Jews are. I believe in letting people make their own choices in life, and I draw the line only when their choices hurt others. The only acceptable retaking of Israeli land by Palestinians would be through nonviolent means.
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But the jewish choices are hurting the palestinians by denying them their rights
 
No one has denied that Israelis have used force on Palestinians. However, even if Israelis have caused the deaths of innocent Palestinians, it still would not excuse Palestinians who would later cause deaths to innocent Israelis. Those Palestinians would be killing people who, in most cases, weren't the actual ones to drive them off. [

If you want vengeance, then you have to aim it directly at the people who caused you direct harm. Aiming it at individual people who happen to belong to the same larger group as the real criminals is not a moral alternative, and that's not up for debate.

The continual response I'm seeing is that if it's okay for some Israelis to hurt innocent Palestinians, then it's okay for Palestinians to hurt ANYBODY who happens to be Israeli too. That just doesn't fly.
 
I'm waiting on your statistics to support your claim that "most Israelis" have not harmed Palestinians.

Also, as you can see from the video above and the poll statistics from Israel, your claim has no leg to stand on. Apparently. most Israelis want a Judenrein Germany Arabrein Israel to the extent of standing outside homes in the Arab quarter [from where 50 Palestinians were evicted a fortnight ago and more are in the process of losing homes] and chanting "mavet la aravim" [Death To Arabs]
 
I don't need statistics to say that SAM. Innocent until proven guilty. What you should be doing is providing statistics that state that the majority of Israelis have, on an individual basis, gone out and killed at least one Palestinian each -- if that is what you claim. Not statistics showing that a majority supports the use of violence against Arabs, and not just statistics showing that most Israelis have talked about killing Palestinians. We're talking about actually physically killing Palestinians.

You won't find such statistics however. :cool:
 
So all you have is an unsupported claim. Well I have evidence that most Israelis hate Palestinians and are racists. Harming does not require killing. You can blow off the legs of a child and I would consider it harm.
 
So all you have is an unsupported claim.
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SAM, I don't need to support my claim. It's common sense. There is no statistical evidence stating that most Palestinians haven't killed someone in their lives either... but we don't act on the assumption that most Palestinians have killed people, do we? A resounding no. And you definitely don't kill people without first finding out for sure if they actually killed someone themselves.

That is how it works in the real world, my friend. Innocence before guilt. Maybe guilt is the first basis they operate on in arab countries... but since I'm not an arab, we're not going to use that basis. :cool:
 
WillNever said:
SAM, I don't need to support my claim. It's common sense. There is no statistical evidence stating that most Palestinians haven't killed someone in their lives either... but we don't act on the assumption that most Palestinians have killed people, do we? A resounding no.
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Thats because we have evidence, there are almost equal numbers of Jews and Arabs in Occupied Palestine. But the statistics are not the same for both sides

Here:

children.gif


123 Israeli children have been killed by Palestinians and 1,487 Palestinian children have been killed by Israelis since September 29, 2000.

deaths-index.gif

1,072 Israelis and at least 6,348 Palestinians have been killed since September 29, 2000

injuries-index.gif

8,864 Israelis and 39,019 Palestinians have been injured since September 29, 2000

...continued in next post
 
prisoners.gif


1 Israeli is being held prisoner by Palestinians, while 10,756 Palestinians are currently imprisoned by Israel

homes.gif

0 Israeli homes have been demolished by Palestinians and 18,147 Palestinian homes have been demolished by Israel since 1967.

settlemnts.gif

Israel currently has 223 Jewish-only settlements and ‘outposts’ built on confiscated Palestinian land. Palestinians do not have any settlements on Israeli land

source:http://www.ifamericansknew.org/
 
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