Read the thread. Better yet, if you're going to argue about Islamic history, first read Islamic history.
Been there, done that.
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"Islamic" Golden Age
- Thread starter Michael
- Start date
Been there, done that.
Actually, it's not at all necessary. If the science is "islamic", it should conform to or support or derive from some element of islam. The same would be true of Christian "science". I mean, I suppose it could be limited by some religion or other to be associated with it, but it's not the sense of the meaning as usually applied.
How about a break from tradition then?
Pot. Kettle. Black.
" In conclusion, I can unambiguously summarize the fact that the so called Islamic Golden Age was not any product of Islamic scriptural knowledge, nor it was due to any degree of devoutness of religion Islam, rather it was due to short-lived opportunity of freethinking and rationalism induced by the famous Mu’tazillites and facilitated by the liberal minded Abbasid Kingdom.
What was the ideology of Mu’tazila which actually opened the window for rational thinkers? The defining philosophy of Mu’tazila was freewill, rationalism and scientific thought which was rooted in the Hellenic-age Greek philosophy. Mu’tazila ideology was greatly promoted during Abbasid Caliphate (8-13th century) but after that Islamic re-incarnation by Ahadiths collection by Muslim al –hajjaj, al-Bukhari, Abu daud, al-Timidi and rise of islamic zealots by the leadership of Imam Ghazali put the final nail to the coffin of defeated Mu’tazillites—leading to the end of enlightenment during 13th century and subsequently rise of Islamic devoutness (darkness of close minds and superstitions) in the Islamic world, which ended the so called Islamic Golden Age for good.
The Quran emphatically forbade pursuance knowledge and learning that falls outside the scope of Quran and Sunnah for fear of going astray by emulating path of error and heresy. Quran directly contradicted the very principle of Mu’tazilies. Hence, Islamic theological knowledge had very little to contribute to the attainment of the Golden Age."
http://www.islam-watch.org/SyedKamranMirza/Nostalgia-of-Islamic-Golden-Age.htm
Dude, I know "Chrisitan" science is oxymoron in regards to electricity. Electricity is in no way "Christian". When one hear's "Chrisitan" math, usually one creases ones brow and thinks to one's self WTF are they going on about... yet Islam on the other hand.. hoo ho hoo happy Xmas. Islamic Science, Islamic Math, Islamic poop, Islamic murder, Islamic air, Islamic gay sex, oh, the list just goes on and on... like the energizer bunny using Chrsitan batteries.
We should get a couple of theoretic scales and stack on one of them all the Shinto Sciences and on another all the Chrisitian Sciences and on another the Islamic Sciences and on another Hindu Sciences and on another Greco-Roman polytheistic panthenon Sciences etc... see which one ways weighs the most. My money is on Chrsitian - I mean, pretty much the modern world is built on Christianity. Back in the day, it made good common sense to murder a lot of backwards non-Christian people, people like Muslims. You know, they were still shitting in holes in the ground, obvioulsy they needed a good dose of Chrisitian superiority to set the right... thank the Gods we don't think like that now, oh, wait, some of us do. The same people probably pooping in holes in the ground.... ...
Sorry, not interested in wasting my energy on Islamophobes. I'll just continue to point out where you're wrong.
Well, my offer was honest. But you won't engage it. So, you'll keep speculating, you mean.
There really is no theological connection of islam with science. "Islamic science" is a misnomer; a common miscomprehension. It's just kind of wishful thinking, really. Crowing about nothing.
Thanks.
I kind of suspected it, but wasn't sure if it was so. But if the evidence isn't strong enough even for you to try it, it's really not supported."You shall not accept any information, unless you verify it for yourself. I have given you the hearing, the eyesight, and the brain, and you are responsible for using them.
Then exalted be Allah, the True King! And hasten not (O Muhammad) with the Qur'an ere its revelation hath been perfected unto thee, and say: My Lord! Increase me in knowledge."
So, what does this have to do with the fact that the Islamic Golden Age was a farce?
Round and round she goes, where she stops... :shrug:
Let's recap, and try to find out where you ran this ship aground. First, you bleated:
I suspected the usual reconnaissance mission, troll the forums from thirty thousand feet up and fire a single strafing run missing the target altogether. Nonetheless, you circled the field after receiving ground fire and fired off a salvo of contradiction:
How is it Sam, that the Quran can have anything to say about the alleged Islamic Golden Age? Anyways, your intellectual plane is hopelessly shot up and nose-diving into the ground, but you still manage to muster flying the racist flag on your descent:
Shameful, really. And, rather than pulling the chord on your parachute, you salute the gods of ignorance and fly the burning plane into the ground by leaving us to explain your incredulity:
And thus, you have attempted to derail the thread away from the fact that the "Islamic Golden Age" is for the most part Islamic propaganda, but instead were crushed by your own efforts. Well done.
Where did you refute it Sam? Was it when you pulled the racist card crying, "Islamophobia" or was it when you contradicted yourself?
I don't think the existance of Islamic Golden Age is in doubt, In essence it was a scientific and technological renaissance promoted by powerful leaders, maybe for their own good (medicine, astrology) but later gave a great deal to the wider scientific world. The origins have been recognised as coming from ancient Greek sources, who the Islamic scholars acknowledged and held in high esteem. That such outside esoterica was accepted within Islamic circles has to point to fairly open-minded leadership. To me this contradicts what I've understood about Islam generally. Certainly there was continiual opposition to the dissemination of foreign treatises from within, for instance al-Ghazali who "repeatedly warned against exposing Muslims to potentially misleading though essentially innocuous rational science" (p.183 The World of Islam ed. Bernard LewisT&H 92)
There does seem to be some doubt over how long the Golden Age lasted and what ultimately caused its demise.
As for the latter, there were external causes, like the Mongol invasion, but others see factors within the religion itself. Less open-minded governance saw a return to fundamentalism, rejecting rational science as it conflicted with the literal word of God?
More strident commentry is easy to find on the net:
Another result of the religious dominance of Islamic culture is that even when education is undertaken in Islamic culture, the emphasis is too often centered on Islamic studies. The Islamic world devotes such a disproportionate amount of its education resources on the teaching of Islam that it acts like an anchor that impedes forward progress. Not only does the emphasis on religious study take away from the study of knowledge that might help advance the culture, but it has the additional pernicious effect of cementing Islam's grip on the culture. Muslim youth are inculcated into a relatively unshakable Islamic belief system that perpetuates itself into perpetuity. Many Muslims spend much of their time memorizing the Qur'an. Memorizing such Qur'anic verses as "slay the pagans wherever you find them" hardly prepares Muslims for an increasingly technical world. from here.
I have no doubt that the West was influenced directly by Islamic Golden Age, especially the applied sciences. The works of al-Jazari's Automata and the Book of Knowledge of Ingenious Mechanical Devices were well ahead of Western technology. Somehow the West applied such learning, and maybe Islam failed to build on it.
There does seem to be some doubt over how long the Golden Age lasted and what ultimately caused its demise.
As for the latter, there were external causes, like the Mongol invasion, but others see factors within the religion itself. Less open-minded governance saw a return to fundamentalism, rejecting rational science as it conflicted with the literal word of God?
More strident commentry is easy to find on the net:
Another result of the religious dominance of Islamic culture is that even when education is undertaken in Islamic culture, the emphasis is too often centered on Islamic studies. The Islamic world devotes such a disproportionate amount of its education resources on the teaching of Islam that it acts like an anchor that impedes forward progress. Not only does the emphasis on religious study take away from the study of knowledge that might help advance the culture, but it has the additional pernicious effect of cementing Islam's grip on the culture. Muslim youth are inculcated into a relatively unshakable Islamic belief system that perpetuates itself into perpetuity. Many Muslims spend much of their time memorizing the Qur'an. Memorizing such Qur'anic verses as "slay the pagans wherever you find them" hardly prepares Muslims for an increasingly technical world. from here.
I have no doubt that the West was influenced directly by Islamic Golden Age, especially the applied sciences. The works of al-Jazari's Automata and the Book of Knowledge of Ingenious Mechanical Devices were well ahead of Western technology. Somehow the West applied such learning, and maybe Islam failed to build on it.
Bricoleur,
Your posts, at least as I read it, agrees with my assesment. If there were a period of some advancments it had nothing to do with "Islam" and if anything "Islam" retards advancement. So the words "Islamic Golden Age" in refering to anything other than the development of the religious ideas that came known as "Islam" is oxymoron.
As is "Islamic" electrons.
Michael
Your posts, at least as I read it, agrees with my assesment. If there were a period of some advancments it had nothing to do with "Islam" and if anything "Islam" retards advancement. So the words "Islamic Golden Age" in refering to anything other than the development of the religious ideas that came known as "Islam" is oxymoron.
As is "Islamic" electrons.
Michael