Islamic attitudes in the UK today

[Vienna]

It wasnt just muslims they allowed, it was italians, south americans, africans, israelis, anybody they could exploit, thats why we are so multi-cultural, and almost half the people i've met are not originally british, i've had no problems with any of them, i think leda is right the media has blown things out of proportion, i cant understand why people are so bothered about people from other cultures living and working in britain(so long as they are working and not sponging), i doubt we will get rid of them since most are now born in britain and consider themselves british.
Vienna do you propose we remove all people of african dissent aswel? Or hindus? Where do you draw the line? When you have different races in a country and people that feel the same as you do then you are bound to have trouble.

Your post doesn't ring true somehow, the description you give of thousands of Italians and South Americans???? coming to the shores of Britain sounds very far fetched. Pakistanis, Bangladeshis, Indians Carribeans and some African would show a better picture of immigration in the sixties. I have a hunch that you are not a white British ethnic either.

 

[leda]

Right, I've taken a deep breath. Honestly, Vienna, most of the Muslims I've worked with are fine. They're normal people. Round here, they're very working class, a lot of people with poor education, a lot of young mothers. They're not very rich, and they're marginalised.

One of my most remembered moments at a place I worked last summer: a bunch of pakistani girls coming into work on their day off, with western clothes in their bags that their parents didn't know they'd brought with them. They asked their to lie if their parents happened to call, and tell them they'd just popped out. Which they had, to Leeds, to go shopping. A bit repressed, maybe, but pretty normal teenage actions, cos they're normal teenagers. The lads on my estate hang round in gangs, eyeing up girls and starting fights with each other. Cos they're normal teenagers.

Is it your argument that all people who appear normal are terrorists? I'm sure you don't really believe that. Ted Bundy seemed very normal. That doesn't mean that all normal white Americans are mass murderers (see other threads for conflicting views!).

Yes, a few Muslims support terrorism. But we have no way of knowing which ones. If we have anything to defend against terrorism, surely its our rights, like being innocent until proven guilty. Some whites in this country are planning violent crimes as we speak. I am white. I am not planning a violent crime. You simply cannot scale up from the individual to the society.

 

[Lemming3k]

thousands

You quoted my post but clearly didnt read it, theres no numbers in it, nice try.

I have a hunch that you are not a white British ethnic either.

You've had that hunch before and its still wrong, unfortunately theres little i can do to prove it short of standing on your doorstep, if you must know i was born in enfield and all my family are white, theres no foreign blood in my family whatsoever and i'd much rather spend a saturday watching the footie than blowing myself up thank you very much.
I wonder how much you know of british history, yes italians did come over to britain, in the 50s after the war they became bricklayers in bedfordshire.

 

[Vienna]

You are entitled to your opinion as I am mine. I prefer to be one step ahead of anything that might threaten this country - I trust no muslims. I don't like their presence in this country and I would prefer it if they chose somewhere else to live.

The latest news is that Blunkett has agreed to introduce ID cards which I'm sure you have heard about.

He has also agreed that mulsim women do not have to show their faces on them.

Now why do I feel predujiced?

I give up.

 

[Vienna]

You quoted my post but clearly didnt read it, theres no numbers in it, nice try.

You've had that hunch before and its still wrong, unfortunately theres little i can do to prove it short of standing on your doorstep, if you must know i was born in enfield and all my family are white, theres no foreign blood in my family whatsoever and i'd much rather spend a saturday watching the footie than blowing myself up thank you very much.
I wonder how much you know of british history, yes italians did come over to britain, in the 50s after the war they became bricklayers in bedfordshire.

Ah yes - I stand corrected.

Not many Italians reached up t'north, got stampled in the rush by Pakistanis last I heard.

You don't really spend your Saturday afternoons watching the ET's ??

Do you

 

[leda]

They do have to have iris scans on them instead though, Vienna. A compromise, I think. Personally I'm not carrying one at all, lets see them make me, but that's another debate entirely.

 

[Lemming3k]

lol, yes well unfortunately im one of them southern nancys that knows everything the northerners dont, as far as the footie goes im a barnet fan(i'll say it proudly today but i may regret it after thrusday) and an arsenal fan, im a north londoner, thats how i've met plenty of different cultures, theres not too much racism down here because we all grow up together.

 

[Vienna]

They do have to have iris scans on them instead though, Vienna. A compromise, I think. Personally I'm not carrying one at all, lets see them make me, but that's another debate entirely.

I was all for them, but not now.

This is a perfect example of the UK Government creating divisions in communities. if one part of the community can be covered up - then lets all be covered and make a mockery of the whole issue.

 

[Vienna]

I wonder how Muslims will react to sex testing before they are allowed to remain covered on these new ID cards..

Do muslim women in America remain covered on their ID cards ?

 

[Lemming3k]

This is a perfect example of the UK Government creating divisions in communities. if one part of the community can be covered up - then lets all be covered and make a mockery of the whole issue.

I suppose its because their religion states they should be covered, if we are going to be a decent multi-cultural country it makes sense in a way we make allowances for people, but you have a good point.

 

[Vienna]

I'm gonna put a Man Utd scarf over my head with two eye holes in it....LOL!

As for multiculture - its a myth - it doesn't exist.

I can't give you an example where multiculturism exists, and thrives in the world. But I can give you lots of examples where it doesn't, and the latest example is Cyprus

 

[Lemming3k]

lol no you cant be a manc i just admitted im a gooner, you'll never agree with me now.

 

[Vienna]

lol no you cant be a manc i just admitted im a gooner, you'll never agree with me now.

ARSENAL ..Grrrr

Oh and er ..... Congratulations

and you can have Barthez too...

 

[Lemming3k]

lol, nice to win it at tottenham, and we dont need barthez to mess up with lemon around(even i dont like him), still next season should be good and interesting. I wonder where the british economy would be without all these foreign footballers spending their money here? Im sure you dont object to those foreigners

 

[Lemming3k]

Yes thats true, but until england get beat by kazakstan nobody will care about home grown players, my two teams have quite a few foreign players and growing up with other foreigners around me made me realise we all have a lot in common and some spoil it for the rest of us, and yes we digress from the topic, i'd like to note a lot of the people i've met were born in england but their parents werent and they are quite proud to be british, i find it more encouraging than a cause for concern, but its very late and i shall get some sleep and we can resume the topic tomorrow with hopefully some fresh input from other people aswel, so i bid you goodnight and hope one day you find a muslim who will install confidence in you that they aint so bad after all.

 

[James R]

Vienna:

Really?? .....I have no idea how to make that calculation, maybe you can do it for me..

Ok. This is probably an underestimate, but let's be conservative and say there are 1 million Muslims in England. Now, this is an overestimate, but let's be conservative again and say that maybe 1000 Muslims are actively advocating violence. Then that means that 0.1 % of the Muslim population is actively advocating violence, which supports my contention that by far the majority of Muslims are peaceful. In fact, the percentage is most likely lower than 0.1%. I'll leave you to find more accurate figures.

How can you believe the Muslim who says he/she does not support terrorism when Islamic teachings support terrorism?

Which teaching support terrorism? (Bear in mind the definition of terrorism as "violence against innocent civilians" when you answer this one.)

When you see Muslims, how would you determine whether they have the potential to be or, are, Islamic terrorists. How do you tell the difference?

How would you tell the difference with a Christian, or an atheist? Think about it.

Whats the secret formula James?

There is no secret formula. If there was, we could simply track down all the potential terrorists right now and lock them up so they can't get up to anything.

 

[Xev]

Vienna:

Apart from the bit where you say the Brits have brought this upon ourselves - we did not. The British government allowed these people to come in duing the 50's and 60's so they could exploit them in cheap employment - which they did. But the British public never wanted those people here, we made it clear from the start, there was so much bigotry in the sixties it was unbelievable these people didn't take the hint.

Very well, but you still allowed them in. I'm not blaming the Brits - but they did put themselves in this situation. A citizenry is responsible for its government's actions.
Business buys government, government implements librel immigration policies to give business cheap labor, the country ends up with a sizable pool of undesireables.

In a strange sort of way I will be relieved when the UK gets hit by the Islamics, because that will be the very call for Britain to wake up. It will be the kick up the arse for Britain - and believe me - it needs it.

And yet it may not be enough - everyone will start screaming that "Most Muslims love peace! They love the UK!"

As for leda's post re: sexism, we have a simular situation in the US. They come from these vile shithole countries where they slice their daughter's genitals off, they meet non-mutilated American women and assume we're fair game. Incredibly worrisome.

Islam is a noble religion in many ways, but it is not a European religion. Getting them out of Britain is best in the long run for all.

 

[Vienna]

Vienna:

Ok. This is probably an underestimate, but let's be conservative and say there are 1 million Muslims in England. Now, this is an overestimate, but let's be conservative again and say that maybe 1000 Muslims are actively advocating violence. Then that means that 0.1 % of the Muslim population is actively advocating violence, which supports my contention that by far the majority of Muslims are peaceful. In fact, the percentage is most likely lower than 0.1%. I'll leave you to find more accurate figures.

LOL James -

I know very well how to calculate percentages - the problem is the unknown quantity = terrorists, its supporters and potential terrorists.

I was being sarcastic, I think you were too.

How do you calculate the unknown quantity - get it!

Which teaching support terrorism? (Bear in mind the definition of terrorism as "violence against innocent civilians" when you answer this one.)

Obviously you've not heard of the open air preachings from Imams in London then....

How would you tell the difference with a Christian, or an atheist? Think about it.

DUH ! One believes in God - the other doesn't - what does that prove.

There is no secret formula. If there was, we could simply track down all the potential terrorists right now and lock them up so they can't get up to anything.

Wow - You catch on quick - I'm impressed

I think you are either winding me up or you are ignorant of todays attitudes in the muslim world. Have you ever heard of Iraq? Just curious..Y'know I had you down as intelligent.

 

[Vienna]

Vienna:


Very well, but you still allowed them in. I'm not blaming the Brits - but they did put themselves in this situation. A citizenry is responsible for its government's actions.
Business buys government, government implements librel immigration policies to give business cheap labor, the country ends up with a sizable pool of undesireables.

Xev - I agree with you on everything except this.

If the government tell us to jump - we have to jump - there is no argument.

We were told we are going into the EU - we were not asked.

We are now told we have to have ID cards - we are not asked.

The Pakis came to this country by invitation of the British government - not the British public.

The British government made it illegal for the British public to complain about "Pakis" being in this country.

Democracy? - I think not

Free Speech - Is controlled

And yet it may not be enough - everyone will start screaming that "Most Muslims love peace! They love the UK!"

LOL!

I think you could be right here - Sometimes I think this breed of British public are gonna get everything they deserve

As for leda's post re: sexism, we have a simular situation in the US. They come from these vile shithole countries where they slice their daughter's genitals off, they meet non-mutilated American women and assume we're fair game. Incredibly worrisome.

Very worrisome indeed - and a very barbaric practise.

Islam is a noble religion in many ways, but it is not a European religion. Getting them out of Britain is best in the long run for all

Spot on - Islam is OK in its origins, and it will remain OK as long as it knows its limits.

 

[leda]

Hello again,

Just wanted to pass on a rather friendly email I received today:

There will be a Drop-In Day entitled Discover Islam, which will be held
at The Quaker Meeting House, ****, ******, ****
on 1st of May 2004.

In the light of recent events, Muslims have a responsibility to share
Islam's true perspectives on the purpose of life, values and teachings,
with the rest of society. We hope that this event will provide an
opportunity for people from all faiths and backgrounds to come together
in a climate of understanding and appreciation for a mutual discourse
in a friendly atmosphere.

We would like the pleasure of your company on the day, even if it is
only for a few moments. You are welcome to bring your family
members and friends along, any time between 10 am till 5 pm.

There will be various activities during the day including an exhibition on
Islam, A video show, talks and discussion.

We would be delighted if you could join us in a traditional meal that will
be served between 12.30 pm to 2.00 pm.


You don't think it's a trap, do you?