Islam vs. the Western World: off-topic posts from a Religion thread

Oh man, Zak and Max made me laugh so much today with their pathetic posts. What I find funny is the overall reaction in the West. First they start 2 wars, then they whine and moan and bitch when people die in those warzones. And not only that! No! They whine and moan and bitch more when people die not because of them but because of others! Kind of like: how dare you kill them, we were going to kill them first. Any idiot still asking why people kill each other, or Muslims kill each other (As fs Muslims are the only ones in a war zone that arent supposed to kill each other), in a warzone, really needs to study the history of war.

In almost every war, anyone that was seen as siding with and or helping one side in any way, became the target for the other side. Even in the war against the British Christians the American Christian Insurgents fought, they killed their own whenever they suspected collaboration with the English. In every war this happens. But God help us if this happens in wars where Muslims are involved. No. In a war where Muslims are involved there are supposed to be no Muslim inflicted casualties! And then they specifically focus on the faith of 1 group of people. And ofcourse, as the Spanish wall dictates, it's Muslims. They dont ever talk about Mexican Christians killing other Mexican Christians outside of war! Destroying chuuches and homes and killing and beheading over 4000 Mexican Christians over the last year. No, that never comes up. In a war, there are only supposed to be the casulaties inflicted by the US.

Ofcourse, it doesnt matter that those casulties inflicted by the US, even with the killings done by the Afghanis themselves, outnumber everything else. And then, they keep calling these people Muslims. What I would like them to ask is, where they can point to me in the Quran, that it commands them to bomb a mosque and or kill fellow innocent Muslims? Also, do they deny that Western covert agents have been caught, dressed like Muslims, carrying bombs into mosques and and other Islamic buildings with the intent of blowing it up and making it look like other Muslims did it? Nah, I dont expect them to acknowledge any such thing. After all, its not truth theyre after, its the annoyance factor.
 
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arsalan said:
The people who threaten and murder in reaction didn't even get as far as the literary themes. There is something wrong with those people. What is it?"

The people that murdered? That theyre murderes and need to be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law.
You're dodging.
arsalan said:
Not books, but talk, without disguisng my intentions behind literary themes.
Intentions behind literary themes? So a novel is a kind of code, a disguise to fool someone - Rushdie set out to disguise his real intentions, and all that literary work and invention and inspiration was a side effort?
arsalan said:
Nope. For that I would need to talk about what the people are very protective of and lambast it for years. After that I would expect a violent reaction.
From whom?
arsalan said:
Why would they invite someone they disagree with?
Gee, I don't know. I guess Western intellectual traditions just make no sense in this context.
 
It depends on who they are aiming for. Maybe its a Taliban member, maybe a Karzai collaborator. 20 years of war can blur rationality.

I see. Yet the US-inflicted casualties are worse in your estimation? I think this is the first time you've alluded to the issue directly on the forum. Notable.
 
it is exactly pain an suffering that is the driving force behind evolution.

I see. Perhaps you should do some reading, start here:

http://www.literature.org/authors/darwin-charles/the-origin-of-species/


There are various types of evidence for God and some form of design. This black and white way of looking at things tells us much more about the minds of certain atheists. You would be surprised to know that Islam does support evolution, but not "blind, chaotic evolution". Alas, thats another debate.

And clearly, a nonsensical debate that you'll back up with myth and superstition while ignoring facts. Please read from the above link to educate yourself before ever entering such a debate.

Fact of the matter is that the vast majority of theists seem to ascribe good and bad things happening to God, while atheists only seem to come out and ascribe things to God when something bad happens, as to mock the theist.

That is entirely incorrect. Theists contribute the bad to Satan or some other imp or demon of their conjure, and praise their gods whenever anything good happens. The atheist questions the theist as to why they don't attribute the bad to gods, when theists claim their gods created everything, including Satan, the imps and demons. Clear now?

Well, I was watching a couple of documentaries on the universe and black holes and supernovas on Nat Geo.

Try reading some books rather than watching TV, you actually might learn something rather than regurgitating TV shows. Turn off the TV and read the link I provided.
 
I see. Yet the US-inflicted casualties are worse in your estimation? I think this is the first time you've alluded to the issue directly on the forum. Notable.

Yeah. Who armed the militants to the tune of $2 billion dollars? Who destabilised the society?

Afghanistan has been a pawn in the US cold war and now in whatever new shebang they are cooking up. The Afghans are pawns who have been killed since the 1980s because they are in the way of the American greed for resources.

Who would believe that in the 1970s, this was a peaceful socialist state?

Gee, I don't know. I guess Western intellectual traditions just make no sense in this context.

What intellectual tradition? You see the support of anti-Muslim sentiments as an intellectual tradition? Its all grist to the mill of the Israel lobby and Middle East policy.

People getting their knowledge of Muslims from the likes of Salman Rushdie, Daniel Pipes and Christopher Hitchens is not an intellectual tradition. Its the same kind of intelligentsia that operated in Germany before WWII.
 
Sam: "People getting their knowledge of Muslims from the likes of Salman Rushdie, Daniel Pipes and Christopher Hitchens is not an intellectual tradition."

It's worse than that. Many USAmericans are most impressionably imprinted about Muslims from even dumber sources like Fox News, Rush Limbaugh, and Glenn Beck. Now that Bibi Netanyahu's bobbing to the surface again, he'll again enjoy an punguent US following, as another consummate masturd of the meme-pool.
 
Sam: "People getting their knowledge of Muslims from the likes of Salman Rushdie, Daniel Pipes and Christopher Hitchens is not an intellectual tradition."

It's worse than that. Many USAmericans are most impressionably imprinted about Muslims from even dumber sources like Fox News, Rush Limbaugh, and Glenn Beck. Now that Bibi Netanyahu's bobbing to the surface again, he'll again enjoy an puguent US following, because he's a consummate masturd in the meme-pool.

Yeah, I wonder how long before he starts a war with Iran.
 
I think it hinges on the Obama Administration's response (public and private) to the Israeli airstrikes in the Sudan. It's dangerous times again, because the Likud desperately needs a "good war" to consolidate power.
 
I think it hinges on the Obama Administration's response (public and private) to the Israeli airstrikes in the Sudan. It's dangerous times again, because the Likud desperately needs a "good war" to consolidate power.

Yeah I thought the Sudan strikes were a test of Obama's resolve.

As you can hear, the silence has been deafening. While I was not expecting any great change from Obama after his pro-Israel pantomime before AIPAC, I admit its a disappointment that he too will toe the Israeli line when it comes to destabilising yet another country in the Middle East.
 
Zionists still have a lethal political trip-wire in place, should a US leader become openly critical of zionism. Until a majority of USAmericans can follow the plot of Peace Not Apartheid no sitting President can be frank about our crippling Israel issues, which is central to our poisoned relationship with the Muslim world.

Obama has missed some teachable moments with US opinion of Israeli apartheid, but with all that assails him, I still can't make out where he stands. If he's as insightful as Carter, here's hoping he doesn't take so long to come clean about Israel.
 
You're dodging.
Intentions behind literary themes? So a novel is a kind of code, a disguise to fool someone - Rushdie set out to disguise his real intentions, and all that literary work and invention and inspiration was a side effort?
From whom?
Gee, I don't know. I guess Western intellectual traditions just make no sense in this context.

I don't expect you or any of his other supporters to understand why the reaction was the way it was. Somehow, it seems, his strongest supporters are those who haven't even read the book, yet put him on the highest of pedastals. To understand the reaction to Rushdies book, you have to go back in time, to the time of Colonialism and Western Imperialism. When the British took over various Eastern countries, they had state sponsored priests and missionaries go out in the world and try and convert people to Christianity. Poor people could have food, but they'd have to listen to the Bible being read out loud. Sick people could get treatment, but the best was reserved for Christian hospitals. And ofcourse, there was that smug arrogance and downright racist attitude of the Westerners towards the indigenous population. That thinking, that somehow they were superior and had to bring civilization to these people through, amonst other things, Christianity has never been forgotten. A lot of people converted, but the biggest stumbling block for this proved to be the Muslims. They just wouldn't convert in such large numbers.

Enter, the Orientalists. They took it upon themselves, some with the help and under instructions of the Church, to villify Islam and historical Muslims and the Prophet. So they went ahead and wrote and published their books, which were printed in large numbers and then used in those countries to attack Muslims and try get Muslims to convert. This, together with the racist attitudes of the Colonialists, was never really accepted. Looking back at their "arguments" they were the same that Rushdie used, yet there werent riots or death threats or murders. Rushdie plagiarizied all of their arguments. The effect that these books and priests attacking Islam on the street in large crowds had was that some Muslims started to think they were right and demanded reforms of Islam, by taking away all the core concepts and rules of Islam. However, there was a backlash, the colonial and racist aspects and realities, together with these attacks on their religion and culture, meant that instead of converting in large numbers, Muslims became more conservative and went back to core Islam.

At the start of the 20th century, Muslims had rebutted and debunked all of these arguments and Christianity wasn't a powerhouse anymore in those countries. The colonial times had come to an end, almost. There were still a handful of Orientalists between that period and Rushdie, but there were still no riots and or death threats or murders. Then Rushdie came along with his "fiction". Fact of the matter is that Rushdie, ever since Grimus, has been attacking Muslims, Islam, Pakistan and other countries, yet there were no riots and or death treats regarding Grimus and Midnights Children, even though he mocked and ridiculed Islam and Muslims and Pakistanis excessively. His obsession with sex meant that when his parents moved to Pakistan he couldn't satisfy his urges as easily so he took his frustrations out on the Muslims. Saying that a city that locks its women up has lots of whores because the men have urges is just one of those examples.

He has used and mocked the style of writing in the Quran, specifically Surah Al-Rahman, adding his own style of vulgarity and profanity and ridiculing the rewards of Heaven in Islam. Rushdie never could hide his love for British Rule of India and made sure he stuck that in his writings. His ridicule of Divine Revelation in Midnights Children by mocking the revelations given to the Prophet and other Prophets, and then comparing himself to these Prophets. But his biggest love was ridiculing the Prophet of Islam by telling his story, modifying it and mocking it. In Shame, you had his constant attacks on Pakistanis and Pakistani Government. And then the culmination of his work in The Satanic Verses, where he took everything Orientalists and people supporting Western and Christian Imperialism before him had said, twisted it so that it fitted his vulgar and profane style and tried to hide it under the guise of "fiction". Fact of the matter is that no Westerner or someone who isn't familar with Islam can comprehend what Rushdie is writing about. All they see is a fiction novel that's full of mystical sounding names, places and events. Yet Rushdie went to great lengths to attack some of the most noble Muslims in history, from Salman Farsi to Bilal and the Prophet and his Wives. Calling the Prophet of Islam Mahound, an ugly name used by the Crusaders to villify the Prophet, and saying that the Prophet knew he was lying, he knew there was no God, but because he had started this legend, he had to keep at it. Twisting the times the Muslims had to defend themselves from certain extermination by the Meccans, by ridiculing the Battle of the Ditch and Salman Farsi.

In fact, his portrayal of Salman Farsi is one his great attacks. Farsi was seen as one of the noblest companions of the Prophet, a slave of a Jew, someone who had shown such goodness and nobility the Prophet stated that Farsi was now a member of his family. But to Rushdie, he was a drunk who knew all the dirty family secrets. Rushdie talks through Farsi by ridiculing and attacking the women of Islam, and the wives of the Prophet, way before he talks about that brothel. And ofcourse, the brothel is the icing on the cake for his treatment of Islamic women and the Prophets wives. But he doesn't stop there, no, he has to take some more cracks at the Prophet by talking about revelations giving him "permission to fuck as many women as he liked". Then he has Aisha say how convenient that God helps him whenever he needs God. He then connects this to his twisted story of Aisha being an adultress and God coming to help her. And ofcourse, one of the most offensive things he writes relates to the Prophets death, by the Prophet accepting that the Satanic Verses were real and one of those godesses coming to him in his last moments. He cant even leave the Prophets death alone.

But ofcourse, the Western media took small events of book burning and repeated them over and over. There have been 7 cases of books being burned by Westernes since, 8 if you count the the libraries in Iraq being destroyed because of bombings and subsequent events, yet how many have made the news or been shown over and over? Regarding blasphemy in the West, the UK repealed its blasphemy laws in 2008. Visions of Ecstasy, a film, was banned due to blasphemy in, wait for it.....1989! :rolleyes: So what was the difference between accepted blasphemy and not accepted blasphemy? Well, The Satanic Verses was the culmination of Rushdies anti-Islamic work, while Visions of Ecstacy was about Saint Teresa of Ávila and Jesus. You do the math. Other examples where books that cause offence were delayed include the biography of John Curry, whose family objected and the book was delayed. But then again, the blasphemy laws were very onesided. According to Geoffrey Robertson in the Times in 1989:

The Government's rejection of demands to extend the blasphemy law to non-Christian religions pre-empts the policy arguments to be made to the Divisional Court when it reviews a magistrate's refusal to issue a summons against the publisher and author of The Satanic Verses...

Rushdie's own eagerly awaited evidence would be inadmissible. In 1979 the House of Lords decided, by a 3-2 majority, that an alleged blasphemer's intentions are irrelevant. Only the consequence matters. That a writer could be convicted of a criminal offence carrying an unlimited fine and imprisonment without being able to speak in his own defence would surely be unacceptable to thinking Muslims. The recognized literary merits of the book would weigh most against its propensity to provoke. But literary merit is no defence to a blasphemous libel charge. The defence would strive in vain to call the kind of literary luminaries who testified to the merit of Lady Chatterley's Lover. Many might speak as character witnesses for the author and publishers. But they could not utter a word in defence of the book.

The trial would be, in Patten's words, ``decisive and damaging'' litigation. But his response does not then promise to end the legitimate grievance that Muslims and adherents to other (or no) religions still have: the religious discrimination of preserving a law protecting only Christian beliefs.

The blasphemy law's basic defect is that it is so uncertain in scope that nobody can establish in advance whether a publication would constitute an offence. The crime hinges on a finding by a particular jury that material is unacceptably ``scurrilous'', ``abusive'' or ``insulting'' in relation to the Christian religion. What purpose does this law serve? The web of prohibitions on obscenity and indecency in the media protect sacred subjects from pornographic representation; the Public Order Act punishes the use of threatening, insulting or abusive words or writing that might provoke a breach of the peace; and several laws specifically punish anyone who disturbs religious devotions...

Patten piously tells Muslim leaders: ``The Christian faith no longer relies on the law of blasphemy, preferring to recognize that the strength of their own belief is the best armour against mockers and blasphemers.'' But he ignores the tendency that the law will give some to believe they can enforce a conventional Christian presentation of sacred themes in the arts hence demands to prosecute Martin Scorsese's film The Last Temptation of Christ. That alone may remind the Government that it cannot refute the Muslim case for extending the blasphemy law without undertaking to abolish it.

Interesting stuff from a QC. And then ofcourse, there is Rushdie, somehow claiming to have converted, or reverted, back to Islam, and then some time later saying he faked it. There is also no argument that Rushdies books are not pure "fiction" as he himself readily admitted during various interviews about the book. Roald Dahl said it best when he called Rushdie an opportunistic liar. After all, this was the man who said he prefers glorious failure to modest succes. And then, we get people, his most ardent defenders, who haven't even read the book and who know nothing about Pakistani histoy, subcontinent culture, Islamic history and culture, yet will defend him to the hilt. How ridiculous is that.

They deifiy him as some great icon of the freedom of speech. My question to them would be how they can reconcile this with Rushdie getting a play cancelled because he was offended by it :eek: Yes, that's right, Rushdie got a play cancelled. The play by Brian Wright was to deal with his death due to the fatwa, but Rushdie flipped and called Clark and left a message on his machine shotuing at him how he could ever have thought this play would be acceptable to Rushdie. That Rushdie would do whatever he could to get this play from being performed. Then Clark got a letter from Rushdies agent saying that Clark had to legally notify him when the play was to be performed so he could take legal action. Clark, not wanting to get into a legal tangle, decided to cancel the play. Yes, ladies and gentleman, this is the icon of freedom of speech, who was too offended by a play and got it cancelled.

Before Rushdies book was going to be published, the publishers asked a group of religious experts whether they should publish the book. All of the religious expers, Christian and Jewish, said this book should not be published, it was dangerous. I believe it was an agent of the publishers from their Indian offices who said this book should not be published in its current form because it was lethal. He was paid around a million in advance royalties. A million in advanced royalties for a book of fiction. And yet, the publishers went ahead and published it, knowing full well what the reaction would be.

The thing with the Rushdie affair is that its not just Rushdie, it was a constant attack on eastern culture and religion ever since Western Imperialism and colonial times. The wars, the subjugation, the slavery, the racism, the imposition of Christianity by the state through subtle means, the eradication of Eastern history and culture, the overall smugness and feeling of superiority portrayed by the West, the mass murders, the suppression, and then ofcourse, the Orientalists. None of Rushdies arguments against Islam are new, but the way he took his attacks against Islam and Pakistanis and other over the top and betrayed a group that saw him as one of its greatest writers resulted in the reaction we saw. And as Roald Dahl and others said: Rushdie is an opportunistic liar who cannot claim to have written fiction and know nothing about how people would react. No one here is saying the fatwa was right, in fact, the Ayatollah had no authority to pronounce that fatwa, and no one here supports any killings. But the portrayal of the incident by the Western media aggrevated the situation. Add on top of that that other incidents werent as widely reported like, for example, the controvery surrounding The Moors Last Sigh which offended a group of Hindus, who had previously lauded Rushdie for The Satanic Verses, and who burned and destroyed his books and threatened everyone who dared to sell that book, and all you do is aggrevate the situation more and more.

Rushdie is an opportunistc liar with delusions of grandeur. His obsession with sex and profanity is only rivalled by his egotistical displays like jeering the winners when he didnt win a prize for one of his books. Everytime there is a threat of him being forgotten, he announces himself in public and makes sure he has the attention. He is an attentionwhore. And yes, most Westerners are not aware of what he is trying to disguise as fiction so to them, it's all fiction.
 
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Read it. And i've probably also ead any other links you might think I need to read. Fact of the matter is that without the need to survive and or improve to survive, there would be no evolution. There would be no need to fight the pain and suffering of no food and no survival because there wouldnt be any. But thats fiction and the reality is that it is food and survival, in other words things without which we suffer pain and suffering, that drove evolution.

And clearly, a nonsensical debate that you'll back up with myth and superstition while ignoring facts. Please read from the above link to educate yourself before ever entering such a debate.

Not really. I would use various experiments carried out in the last century, talk about theories, then compare them to Islamic teaching.

That is entirely incorrect. Theists contribute the bad to Satan or some other imp or demon of their conjure, and praise their gods whenever anything good happens. The atheist questions the theist as to why they don't attribute the bad to gods, when theists claim their gods created everything, including Satan, the imps and demons. Clear now?

Unrealistic. Theists accept that everything, good and bad as we perceive it, happens because of God. I only see atheists pop up when something bad happens to attack God.


Try reading some books rather than watching TV, you actually might learn something rather than regurgitating TV shows. Turn off the TV and read the link I provided.

Extrapolation of the expansion of the universe backwards in time using general relativity yields an infinite density and temperature at a finite time in the past.[22] This singularity signals the breakdown of general relativity. How closely we can extrapolate towards the singularity is debated—certainly not earlier than the Planck epoch. The early hot, dense phase is itself referred to as "the Big Bang",[notes 2] and is considered the "birth" of our universe. Based on measurements of the expansion using Type Ia supernovae, measurements of temperature fluctuations in the cosmic microwave background, and measurements of the correlation function of galaxies, the universe has a calculated age of 13.73 ± 0.12 billion years.[23] The agreement of these three independent measurements strongly supports the ΛCDM model that describes in detail the contents of the universe.

The earliest phases of the Big Bang are subject to much speculation. In the most common models, the universe was filled homogeneously and isotropically with an incredibly high energy density, huge temperatures and pressures, and was very rapidly expanding and cooling. Approximately 10−37 seconds into the expansion, a phase transition caused a cosmic inflation, during which the universe grew exponentially.[24] After inflation stopped, the universe consisted of a quark-gluon plasma, as well as all other elementary particles.[25] Temperatures were so high that the random motions of particles were at relativistic speeds, and particle-antiparticle pairs of all kinds were being continuously created and destroyed in collisions. At some point an unknown reaction called baryogenesis violated the conservation of baryon number, leading to a very small excess of quarks and leptons over antiquarks and anti-leptons—of the order of 1 part in 30 million. This resulted in the predominance of matter over antimatter in the present universe.[26]

The universe continued to grow in size and fall in temperature, hence the typical energy of each particle was decreasing. Symmetry breaking phase transitions put the fundamental forces of physics and the parameters of elementary particles into their present form.[27] After about 10−11 seconds, the picture becomes less speculative, since particle energies drop to values that can be attained in particle physics experiments. At about 10−6 seconds, quarks and gluons combined to form baryons such as protons and neutrons. The small excess of quarks over antiquarks led to a small excess of baryons over antibaryons. The temperature was now no longer high enough to create new proton-antiproton pairs (similarly for neutrons-antineutrons), so a mass annihilation immediately followed, leaving just one in 1010 of the original protons and neutrons, and none of their antiparticles. A similar process happened at about 1 second for electrons and positrons. After these annihilations, the remaining protons, neutrons and electrons were no longer moving relativistically and the energy density of the universe was dominated by photons (with a minor contribution from neutrinos).

A few minutes into the expansion, when the temperature was about a billion (one thousand million; 109; SI prefix giga) Kelvin and the density was about that of air, neutrons combined with protons to form the universe's deuterium and helium nuclei in a process called Big Bang nucleosynthesis.[28] Most protons remained uncombined as hydrogen nuclei. As the universe cooled, the rest mass energy density of matter came to gravitationally dominate that of the photon radiation. After about 379,000 years the electrons and nuclei combined into atoms (mostly hydrogen); hence the radiation decoupled from matter and continued through space largely unimpeded. This relic radiation is known as the cosmic microwave background radiation.[29]

I dont know what you call that but it is a pretty destructive event in my book. if what happened during the Big Bang was to happen to us right now, we would deem it a destructive event. But it is due to that destructive event that we have everything around us now. if it is too much for you to understand without resorting to ridicule a university and worldwide research backed educational programme, lets take a look at something a little bit closer: The Sun. In a crude short summary: nuclear explosions on Sun = light and warmth and life on Earth.
 
I don't expect you or any of his other supporters to understand...

Rushdie's work is historical fiction, like the Last Temptation of Christ, or the Passion of the Christ. Of course people get upset when their idealized figures are portrayed in all their potentially flawed humanity. But to say that this part of an unspoken conspiracy to make Muslims look bad is ridiculous. Rushdie's work has won some very important literary awards, and you don't get that for being a hack propagandist.
 
Sam: "What's [the zionist tripwire in US politics]?"

If Obama gets too far out ahead of mainstream public opinion regarding zionism, he would be stigmatized to the point of destroying his Presidency. There are intense responses that have been deliberately encouraged and even programmed over our long entanglement with the cult of zionism. Zionists have woven their segregationist narrative into mainstream USAmerican ideology, and separating those strands (incompatible as they are with our Constitutional ideals) is very dangerous work.

The President's opportunities for carefully unraveling and defusing the problem will continue to abound. Obama has the best pedestal for raising awareness, but only so long as he does not trigger his own fall from it. Most USAmericans still lack enough information, and suffer too much propaganda and ignorance to directly question the US alliance with zionism in the near term, while avoiding an incendiary crisis of identity.

If Obama declared today that our subservience in policy and principle to zionism must end, it would immediately trigger the tripwire: His Presidency would explode in a shambles, and both the "Special Relationship" and islamophobia (which are inter-related by design) would be reinforced through the ensuing ruckus. There is an immense amount of educating and de-programming to be done, before a majority of USAmericans can look at the Mideast with any objectivity and calm, particularly in the rare moments when zionism is dragged into the daylight.
 
Rushdie's work is historical fiction, like the Last Temptation of Christ, or the Passion of the Christ. Of course people get upset when their idealized figures are portrayed in all their potentially flawed humanity. But to say that this part of an unspoken conspiracy to make Muslims look bad is ridiculous. Rushdie's work has won some very important literary awards, and you don't get that for being a hack propagandist.

Actually you do. If you want to make it big, all you have to od is claim to be from a Muslim background, then write a "fictional" book attacking Islam. See how fast youll rise. Manji is just another example. But Im not saying theres a conspiracy. What im saying is that the reaction to Rushdies book had been building up, because of his books and becuase of history, andhe could not have been ignorant of hwat was going to happen.

Before Rushdies book was going to be published, the publishers asked a group of religious experts whether they should publish the book. All of the religious expers, Christian and Jewish, said this book should not be published, it was dangerous. I believe it was an agent of the publishers from their Indian offices who said this book should not be published in its current form because it was lethal. He was paid around a million in advance royalties. A million advanced royalties for a book of fiction. And yet, the publishers went ahead and published it, knowing full well what the reaction would be.
 
.... Most USAmericans still lack enough information, and suffer too much propaganda and ignorance to directly question the US alliance with zionism in the near term, while avoiding an incendiary crisis of identity.

Wow, you're strange one, Hype. First you applaud the American people for being so fuckin' smart and knowledgeable to elect ol' what-the-fucks-his-name, now you're turning it all around and calling that same group of Americans ignorant and stupid enough to be susceptible to propaganda.

Which is it, Hype? Are Americans smart for electing what's-his-name, or are they stupid and ignorant?

Baron Max
 
Smart for electing someone that wants change, yet ignorant about most of the world. That about covers it.
 
Arsalan, I'd like to say your posts are spot on, and represent a real understanding of the ground realities in Afghanistan and Iraq. The other posters here, including myself, can learn much from Arsalan.

Regarding Salman Rushdie. I have made it rather blunt that no one should talk about this book, especially those defending it, if they have not read it. So atheists, please go to the store or read online, whatever, find the book and read it, then you will be able to understand why some people may have a problem with it. It's filled to the brink with racist stereotypes, gibberish nonsense, overly sexist in nature (at one point claiming women are only good for one thing, I will not go any further), and offensive not only to Muslims, but all intelligent people.

If you are bent on defending it, go find the book and read it. Otherwise, I don't want to hear any more of this nonsense.
 
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