Islam vs Christianity

[munim_786]

Yes, all true, but with the exception of 4 and 5 this happened long ago. Most of civilization has progressed since that time. I mean come on, Saudi Arabians were some of Americas’ chief suppliers of East African Slaves – especially after the Europeans began banning the practice. My point being that today Saudi Arabians neither supply the US with East African slaves nor does the US condone slavery. Both contries have “progressed” a little. So why bother bringing up such long ago historical consequences that no one today had any control over nor shares any responsibility for. . .

thank you for you message.

whether these happened now or ages ago is besides the point, this thread is "Islam vs. Chritsinaty" and the basic beliefs of Christains haven't changed since then.

ALSO - if i use your argument that if these happened along time ago then this would crush the other threads about Islam being barabric and also remeber that the West only had Womens rights and racial Equality after the 60's. so you can say you are ok now but this is only recently and nothinbg to do with your religion but really people. these changes didnt go as far as the east and Africa though so i could say that my religion is ok but these activists didn;'t reach as far as Muslim countires (and non muslims eastern and Christian Africain countires or more generally the poorer countires)

 

[munim_786]

Yes, all true, but with the exception of 4 and 5 this happened long ago. Most of civilization has progressed since that time. I mean come on, Saudi Arabians were some of Americas’ chief suppliers of East African Slaves – especially after the Europeans began banning the practice. My point being that today Saudi Arabians neither supply the US with East African slaves nor does the US condone slavery. Both contries have “progressed” a little. So why bother bringing up such long ago historical consequences that no one today had any control over nor shares any responsibility for.

The point can be furthered with the historical relevancy of the Turkish Muslims killing off one and a half “million” Christian Armenians about 80 years back. Unless, that is, you’re making a point about Religions in general. I do agree that Christianity (and company) are a bit daft, however, I suppose the more sensible philosophies such as Taoism are a little too complex for the average person to take as their religion.

I also agree with you’re point that Bush has wronged the people of Iraq. Believe me, I would have been more than happy to leave Hussein and Sons in charge for however long they’d happen to last. I do find it curious that there is such a fuss over the US conquering Iraq and not much made about the Arabic Iraqis killing the Kurdish Iraqis. You made the point of Israeli’s “promoting ethnic division” but neglected that the Arabic Iraqis were doing the same to the Kurdish Iraqis. I looked at Iraq in this way - - Although I think the Saudi ruling elite are despicable I don’t see a problem with trading with them. The Arabians have always been ruled by strong men, I feel I have no right to go in and change their culture. The same should have applied to Iraq.

So the view you’re objecting against is that of “Muslims are backwards”. A better way to go about discrediting this view is to first not fall into the temptation of some and ramble on about how bad the past actions of another where and not to ramble on about how many people belong to group such and such.

The best way to discredit this is to acknowledge the truths of the others argument (say that women of Arabia can not drive) and then point out the great works of art, inventiveness, poetry, medical, chemical, physical advancements, and benefits the populase gain by belonging to the group, etcetera . . .

the further you go back into the time of religion the BETTER the people follow the reliogion. nowadays most people are moderatley religious and forget many pasrt of their religion. so just becasue they were done in ancient times doesnt
really mean anything becasue in ancient times people follow religion MUCH more strictly and in the authentic way.

go back to ancient Christianty you will find bloodshed and violence but go back toi the Muslim Empre then you will see how the Muslims gave men, women, children and animals rights, made treatite with non-belivers, didn't force people to convert and lived peacefully with those non-muslims who didn't oppress us. also look at the great advancemtns in science, maths and biolgy we made.

 

[munim_786]

Mr. Dennis should stick to real history i.e. the American Empire and it's threat to the Muslims. America has long been afraid of Islam and Muslims for they are not people to be easily conquered. This is the nature of Islam, it teaches all it's faithful to stand against oppression and injustice. That is why the U.S. fears Islam. 99.9% of Muslims do not hold violent beliefs, but yet they are judged by what the less than 1% of Muslims do. It's a shame, I guess the Christian world is championed by men like David Koreish, and Jim Jones. Wake Up America, you can be smarter than this. Fear and hate only begets fear and hate. Unfortunately, men like Dennis would rather be become reality.

 

[firdroirich]

This is a story by a sufi:

Four travellers, A Persian, Turk, Arab & a Greek, who only had a coin to spend argued amongst themselves what to buy.
"I want angur" said the Persian
"I want azum" yelled the Turk
"Inab" shouted the Arab
"Stafil" was the cry of the Greek

A linguist who was passing by overhead this & offered to help; at first they were reluctant but relented. The man returned from the market with bunches of grapes..
"This is my angur" said the Persian
"and this my azum" chuckled the Turk
"this my Inab" & "this my stafil"

When the wrangling over smaller issues subsides, the greater teaching may be imparted. The grapes may be crushed to a wine, but this is what they asked for & has been given.

 

[everneo]

Sufis were telling this for the past ~1000 years. But it is not 'convenient' to accept this by Abramic faithfuls. Swords and rhetorics 'seemed' to serve their God better.

 

[Michael]

America has long been afraid of Islam and Muslims for they are not people to be easily conquered. ..

What do you mean “long been”? This just isn't even close to true. Prior to 9/11 Islam rarely entered the minds of Joe average American. I lived in the state with the highest number of Muslims (MI) and had some friends who where Muslim at Uni and most never even considered them - and when they did they definitely didn't see them as a “threat”. Actually “pity” not “fear” is how I remember most other Uni students thinking of the relatively few Muslims at Uni.

I was friends with a few Muslim girls and we’d study Chemistry and Biology together. If anything I thought it was to bad they were going to be married off to someone to have kids instead of doing something with all those years of study. And actually, in the end, just that ended up happening. She used to say how relieved she was not to have to “worry” about dating. I felt sorry for her in that respect – “worry”? What a poor outlook. Eventually she was introduced to one boy from ME and married and the last I knew she stayed at home to take care of her kids. Which is fine, but I wonder – what if she had taken the chance and went to Medical School like she always talked about. She studied so many hours to get a chance to go do Medicine and now she’s at home taking care of kids. Perhaps happy – but I can’t help but wonder; if she had been allowed to reach her potential, what her aspirations might have eventually become. I’m sure more than sitting at home with kids.

Anyway, “fear or Islam”? No way – Joe average at worse thinks of Muslim men as backwards cavemen and the women as little more than slaves living in mud huts. At best as a few tyrannical petty kings ruling “in gods name” like the old kings of Europe in the middle ages and that when the last barrel is sold in 20-30 years the whole place will return to dust.

What Americans "fear" is getting shot here at home by some “black guys” or “red necks” or “spics” or losing their job to some Chinaman or some Jewish conspiracy to control the government - some guy in the ME doesn’t even make it onto the radar. Post 9/11 they of course are on the radar – but only for revenge. Once Bin Ladan is caught or eliminated and Iraq is left in what ever state - so long as the oil keeps coming - off the radar they'll go just as fast as they came.

Not that these stereotypes are accurate – but from my experience living in the US that’s the way people have typically thought of the ME – really rarely if any.

 

[Vienna]

Joe average at worse thinks of Muslim men as backwards cavemen and the women as little more than slaves living in mud huts.

Ha ha ha ha, Well - what can I say.

There I was thinking I was all special an all that, thinking I was alone with my vision of muslims.

Seems my view is a very popular one.

 

[James R]

No Vienna, you are not alone in your lack of education and in your racial and religious prejudice. There are many people just like you.

 

[Vienna]

No Vienna, you are not alone in your lack of education and in your racial and religious prejudice. There are many people just like you.

You're right James - I would make a great muslim with my talents.

 

[Michael]

whether these happened now or ages ago is besides the point, this thread is "Islam vs. Chritsinaty" and the basic beliefs of Christains haven't changed since then... .. .. ..
ALSO - if i use your argument that if these happened along time ago then this would crush the other threads about Islam being barabric and also remeber that the West only had Womens rights and racial Equality after the 60's. so you can say you are ok now but this is only recently and nothinbg to do with your religion but really people. these changes didnt go as far as the east and Africa though so i could say that my religion is ok but these activists didn;'t reach as far as Muslim countires (and non muslims eastern and Christian Africain countires or more generally the poorer countires)

munim_786, I would say that the basic beliefs of Christians have changed greatly since the middle ages and now. I’m not sure if we are in agreement or not, but if one were to compare the average modern day Christians with medieval Christians and compare the average modern day Muslim with medieval Christians I think you’d find that, today, most countries (where the majority of the people are Muslims) have more in common with medieval Christians than modern day Christians have with medieval Christians. So as a comparison "Islam vs. Christianity" I’d say Christians have changed quite a bit.

Take me for example, I’m atheist. If I were atheist in medieval Europe I’d potentially be executed by order of the King or Pope (gods representatives here on Earth) to serve as an example of gods love There would be no religious freedom to worship as one would like or in my case not to – and to raise my voice and say - hey religion is all BS. Kind of reminds one of many countries in the ME TODAY doesn’t it? Basically the ME (Middle East)reminds me somewhat of ME (Medieval Europe).

Let me ask.
1) What is Islam to you? Can you be Islamic and not Muslim? Can you be Muslim and not Islamic?
2) Can you separate out the differences in religion, language, and middle eastern culture?
3) Do you regularly hear of Christians in the ME that practice “honor killings”? What about Muslims in the ME performing honor killings?

 

[Michael]

also look at the great advancemtns in science, maths and biolgy we made.

True - although I think we can agree this is the natural extension of the previous peoples cleverness (many advancements were those very same scholars' descendants – even if it was under a new religion). So can we agree it wasn’t “Islam” per say, in so much as it was the freedom the Islamic leaders of the time gave to people to “think” and take previous ideas further? Obviously the advancements you’re referring to didn’t occur in a vacuum. I mean look at the almost unbelievably great advancements made by the ancient Egyptians, Greeks and Romans.

Anyway, At one time, China was the most sophisticated and advanced country in the world at it’s height of power. I wonder why they fell so low? And look at the truly amazing advancements made by the Americans and Europeans and Japanese recently I wonder why they have soared so high?

So I guess if you’re making the point that during times of religious zealousness societies tend to revert to primitive mysticism and regress then I’d agree. Again, I don’t think it’s a coincidence that the rise of Zealous Christianity in Europe precedes the “dark ages”. I wonder if in the future, people (who no longer worship god) and look back to the Middle East of today – will refer to this time as “the ME Dark Ages”. I know a few Iranians that now live here in AU (their now Atheist) and they seem to say so much.

 

[Michael]

Ha ha ha ha, Well - what can I say.

There I was thinking I was all special an all that, thinking I was alone with my vision of muslims.

Seems my view is a very popular one.

Let me reiterate:

Not that these stereotypes are accurate – but from my experience living in the US that’s the way people have typically thought of the ME – really rarely if any. Most Americans live in a bubble universe called America.

I once asked to send a package to Australia. The woman asked me which State that was? Need I say more.

So my point is this is the way most Americans think – not “fear” of Islam or Muslims. More like “indifference / apathy” and as far as the women are concerned maybe “pity”. This isn’t that attitude taken for the ME/Islam/Muslims – its pretty much everything outside of America whether it is Religion or Footy. This is why I was trying to offer a few things that Amercian do “worry” about. Islam just isn’t one of them.

 

[Vienna]

Let me reiterate:

Not that these stereotypes are accurate – but from my experience living in the US that’s the way people have typically thought of the ME – really rarely if any. Most Americans live in a bubble universe called America.

I once asked to send a package to Australia. The woman asked me which State that was? Need I say more.

So my point is this is the way most Americans think – not “fear” of Islam or Muslims. More like “indifference / apathy” and as far as the women are concerned maybe “pity”. This isn’t that attitude taken for the ME/Islam/Muslims – its pretty much everything outside of America whether it is Religion or Footy. This is why I was trying to offer a few things that Amercian do “worry” about. Islam just isn’t one of them.

Yeah I know what you mean. Islam is one of the non-runners in the advancement of the civilised human race. Islam is a non entity and no one worries about it much - until it uses its neoanderthal tendencies and resorts to terrorism. Terrorism is a quality which proves how backward the organisation is; it is no different to a legalised equivalent of a mutant KKK.

munim_786,
Let me ask.
1) What is Islam to you? Can you be Islamic and not Muslim? Can you be Muslim and not Islamic?
2) Can you separate out the differences in religion, language, and middle eastern culture?
3) Do you regularly hear of Christians in the ME that practice “honor killings”? What about Muslims in the ME performing honor killings?

Dam good questions Michael;

I wonder if any muslim dare reply???? ......I doubt it!

 

[munim_786]

time to prove you wrong and get my reward for my jihad

Dork - where do I say that - please show me ......LOL

this is where: Islam Vs. Christinaty Page 7

Tell me how is it possible for a Christian to kill another Christian in the name of the Christian God?

look Vienna, you just been
BLANKED!!!

i might not be proving Islam right or wrong but I AM PROVING to everyone how YOU DONT KNOW your OWN WORDS and the HISTORY of YOUR OWN COUNTRY.

hmmm notice how you said

Dork - where do I say that - please show me ......LOL

well whos the "DORK ...... LOLNOW?

why its

YOU

ofcourse

hmm, dont know your own words, the history of your OWN country, and you believe in Moon Gods etc. nice work Vienna. everybodys gonna belive you know!

 

[munim_786]

Vienna the fool said to me that Christians cant have fights with each other...

Vienna you uneducated fool. Are you stupid? Christians can have and HAVE had battles between its sect and this is happening in Ireland where there is tension between Catholics and Protestants.

Also just look at the history of YOUR bloody NON-MUSLIM country. I’m ashamed of you Vienna. You make such bold claims about Islam and you don’t even know about your OWN countries past.

Well I’ll give you a lesson about how violent CHRISTIANY IS TO ITS OWN RELIGION.

SOURCE DISCOVERY CHANNEL program by RORY McGRATH – BLOODY BRITIAN

Queen Mary of England was a strict catholic. She HATED protestants. She had a short reign of 4 years in which she persecuted Protestants beyond belief.

ALL OF THESE ACTS WERE DONE IN THE NAME OF GOD!!!!!

- Anyone who was caught with an English translation of the Bible was burnt ALIVE
ANYONE who was protestant was tortured By
- Hanged off a tree for days on only one arm
- Forcefully made to place their hands on a burning candle
- Locked in the stocks and had rotten fruit thrown at them

She ARRESTED the ARCH BISHOP of CANTERBURY and BISHOP RIDLEY AND LATAMA (excuse the spelling on the names)

She then burnt alive the two Bishops in front of the Arch Bishop and FORCED him to convert in to a Catholic. Despite his conversion he was still burnt alive.

In her ONLY FOUR years she burnt alive; 257 men and 56 women and tortured thousands. She even signed DEATH WARRANTS on her DEATH BED. If she hadn’t of died so soon and didn’t fall so sick so often she would of killed thousand of people.

Vienna learn about your OWN country before you even try to comprehend another whole way of life.


Vienna you uneducated fool. Are you stupid? Christians can have and HAVE had battles between its sect and this is happening in Ireland where there is tension between Catholics and Protestants.

Also just look at the history of YOUR bloody NON-MUSLIM country. I’m ashamed of you Vienna. You make such bold claims about Islam and you don’t even know about your OWN countries past.

Well I’ll give you a lesson about how violent CHRISTIANY IS TO ITS OWN RELIGION.

SOURCE DISCOVERY CHANNEL program by RORY McGRATH – BLOODY BRITIAN

Queen Mary of England was a strict catholic. She HATED protestants. She had a short reign of 4 years in which she persecuted Protestants beyond belief.

ALL OF THESE ACTS WERE DONE IN THE NAME OF GOD!!!!!

- Anyone who was caught with an English translation of the Bible was burnt ALIVE
ANYONE who was protestant was tortured By
- Hanged off a tree for days on only one arm
- Forcefully made to place their hands on a burning candle
- Locked in the stocks and had rotten fruit thrown at them

She ARRESTED the ARCH BISHOP of CANTERBURY and BISHOP RIDLEY AND LATAMA (excuse the spelling on the names)

She then burnt alive the two Bishops in front of the Arch Bishop and FORCED him to convert in to a Catholic. Despite his conversion he was still burnt alive.

In her ONLY FOUR years she burnt alive; 257 men and 56 women and tortured thousands. She even signed DEATH WARRANTS on her DEATH BED. If she hadn’t of died so soon and didn’t fall so sick so often she would of killed thousand of people.

Vienna learn about your OWN country before you even try to comprehend another whole way of life.

 

[Vienna]

***munim, cross posting isn't usually the done thing, but if it is the only way to get some sense in to your thick skull then I have no alternative to do the same on this one occasion. I will not do it again****

Vienna the fool said to me that Christians cant have fights with each other...

.

You misquoted me - What I said was this:-

Tell me how is it possible for a Christian to kill another Christian in the name of the Christian God?

Then you quote the troubles in Northern Ireland.

Let me now explain everything for you;

The conflicts between the Catholics and the Protestants are related to issues of politics firstly within the Catholic church, and secondly when the English monarchy broke away from the Catholic church, and thirdly as a result of power, dominance and racism.

These conflicts are nothing to do with God, who is effectively the same interpretation of God. In effect the argument is about the religion or brand which they have applied to God.

There are very few acts that are claimed to be acts of God which are truly acts of God. Mostly as soon as act by man is claimed to be an act of God, the reality is that the act is very far removed from God.

Understood - Got It??

Good

 

[azhar]

Explain to me why a level headed protestant journalist Yvonne Ridley travelled to afghanistan, to report on the taliban (brutal regime, western haterz) got captured but yet bargained her way out saying i will read the quran. After reading it she became a student of Islam. A muslim. i cant understand it. You lot misinterpret the quran, witout even reading it and plunder it with your obscene language yet Many non ignorant people Convert. Think about it. I challenge you to read the Quran and just maybe Allah aka GOD will forgive your sins and place you in the right path

 

[azhar]

I havnt ever come across an Islam hater who passonately and openely opposed Islam. come and say it to my face or any leel heade muslim and see what you get. See Most american and british Kids are influenced by TV mates and media rather then parents. So it aint surprising why prostiution drugs gambling and pornography is the centre of there lives. Sum american states are not like this but most definately england is like this.

 

[azhar]

No1 wants 2 be like jesus or any of the saints or even influenced by them. o god i wish they ewhere but fast cars girls and money is all they want

 

[spamandham]

... I challenge you to read the Quran and just maybe Allah aka GOD will forgive your sins and place you in the right path

I tried to read it. After the first 5 pages I concluded it is the purest form of crap not worthy of my time. I suppose I am predjudiced though. It took me two times all the way through the Bible to come to the same conclusion.