Islam vs Christianity

spidergoat said:
'What hypocracy a boxer becoming an objector."
come on dude, boxing is hardly the same as blowing someone away with a gun. It's a sport, and Ali was possibly the best. Give credit where it is due.


Every punch thrown can have a devastating effect on the receiver, many boxers have breathed their last in those boxing rings, never mind the brain damage inflicted.
You call that sport? You would have loved the gladiators.

To me Mohhamed Ali is a brain damaged human being that white society has made into a hero. For what? So others can follow his footsteps and be brain damaged or damage others?
 
First let me clarify that those words in the letter are not mine.
Extraneous, but thank you anyway.
Now do I agree with every line the author wrote? No I dont . . . .
This is well and fine with me, and rarely would I construe it as such unless you were known for letting others speak your mind for you.

None of that, however, changes the outright lunacy of the letter itself.
what I meant was I agreed with the premise that Islam is an aggressive religion that seeks to dominate the world
And this is different from what? Wicca? Great.
How long do you think you last Tiassa under Islam? Would you still stick to your atheistic values or put your tail between your legs and cry allah akbar?
I almost want to turn to the gallery and say, What's wrong with that excerpt?

First, we might consider that I would not be so foolish as to enter the ummah and challenge it so openly. Comparatively, I avoid Utah for similar reasons. We might also pause to think for a moment about the difference between a faith and what we choose of it to demonize. I've made similar mistakes; I still catch myself occasionally holding Lon Mabon and the OCA against Christianity in general; it's hard to look at Catholic scandals and not say, "So the Catholics are dangerous to children ... what's new?"; I have a hard time viewing Latter-Day Saints with a straight face. It's a very negative view, all around, but over time, one of the things I've actually gotten from Sciforums is a taste of the insane diversity that comes from unified messages. I've learned to separate "Christianity" as a standard or idyll from Christians, and that helps a great deal. I get along with Christianity ... better these days.

Why, then, if I won't let the OCA or PTL or 700 Club or Father "Gay-gun" represent all Christians, should I let some two-bit hater at a website, or some idiot with dynamite strapped to his chest represent Islam?

Did you think about that at all?

Also, as a minor side note, if my values are atheistic at all, it's because I structure them so that I cannot resort to stupid excuses that blame all my troubles or the ills of the world on God. But Greco, thank you for the chuckle.
Now for your list of muslim converts most of them are a bunch of punchy boxers, black criminals that want protection from the law such as Michael Jackson.
Yep. That makes 'em terrorists, doesn't it?

Find an issue, get a point, buy a vowel ... I don't care. That was pretty funny, Greco.
 
Tiassa: Did you think about that at all?



Of course not otherwise you wouldn't have had the chance to chastasize me. I admit I've been rather emotional with this Islam thing maybe I'm over-reacting, that boll weevil PM sure got me going.

Thanks for calming the waters
 
Greco said:
In the Quran the word Jihad was used more than 200 times to fight the infidels, to kill the peoples of other religions (Hindus, Christians and Jews), and all other kaffirs. And Allah repeatedly promised heaven (Jannaat) having beautiful hurries, wine, honey, bird's meat and what not! Now you being a western professor took the challenge of giving a new look to the Quran. Why you think those Palestinians started their freedom struggle by the name Why you think those Imams (Islamic priests) of every Mosque in place>Saudi Arabia as well as in every Muslim country-giving Friday sermons using hundreds of coercive Quranic verses to incite Muslims to kill Jews, Christians, Hindus and infidels?
This seems to be the meat of the agrument. However, it's one thing to say there are coercive verses -yet, not a single verse has been listed and discussed? Until these so called coercive verses are listed the argument doesn't count for much.
 
Greco said:
Vienna although I'm not a religious I get vehemenly engaged with Islam because I see the threat that they pose. Just like Hitler, Islam must be stopped from spreading and enslaving mankind.There's alot of naivetivity out there that think Islam is made up of good people and nobody has anything to fear. Far from the truth Islam is a menace to mankind especially to atheists.

You know the story of the frog? If you put a frog in a pot of boiling water he'll jump out, but if you put him in apot of cold water and turned up the fire gradually, the frog will never jump out and eventually cook itself.

That's the way I see the spreading of Islam, a gradual heat increase. We got to take action before we're cooked.
Lovely story about the frog - brilliant!

That is a perfect example of what has been happening in the UK, fortunately we have noticed that someone has left the gas ring on, and turned it off.


You have had replies from Flores - Medicine woman - Proud Muslim

And not one of them can say that your initial post is not true.

Not one of them has addressed your post because the truth hurts. Their only answer in defeat is to verbally attacked you.

Good post Greco!
 
The letter is absurd. "You should learn that anybody who is converted to Islam immediately turns into a terrorists". It's a rediculous claim easily refuted. However the letter also makes some goods points. The Koran does allow that nonbelievers who refuse to convert to be killed. Islam is very authoritarian, just like Judaism and Christianity, and is a threat for that reason.
 
spamandham said:
The letter is absurd. "You should learn that anybody who is converted to Islam immediately turns into a terrorists". It's a rediculous claim easily refuted. However the letter also makes some goods points. The Koran does allow that nonbelievers who refuse to convert to be killed. Islam is very authoritarian, just like Judaism and Christianity, and is a threat for that reason.

Please explain why you believe that Christianity and Judaism can be authoritarian in the same way as Islam?
 
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spamandham said:
The Koran does allow that nonbelievers who refuse to convert to be killed.

HERE IS MY CHALLENGE TO EVERYONE IN THIS FORUM TO SHOW ME ONE VERSE FROM THE QURAN THAT SAYS KILL THOSE NONBELIEVERS WHO REFUSE TO CONVERT ????????????????

:rolleyes:
 
Vienna said:
If you think that this is a "rediculous" claim that can easily be refuted - then do so - refute it.

I will refute this ridiclous claim, the claim is: ''You should learn that anybody who is converted to Islam immediately turns into a terrorists".

And If I can prove that one of those converts did not immediately turns into a terrorist, the whole claim will collapse since the claim made it absolutely clear that ANYBODY who converted to islam will be terrorist, so watch how this claim is refuted:

MEET INGRID MATTSON: A YOUNG CANADIAN WHITE WESTERN WOMAN WHO CONVERTED TO ISLAM:

1213p16a.jpg


She is not terrorist, she is a professor of Islamic studies at Hartford Seminary in Connecticut..her story as thousands of westerners ( White and Black ) speak volumes about Islam.

Read her full amazing story:

here:http://www.csmonitor.com/atcsmonitor/specials/women/religion/religion121301.html

PS: Again the souce is NOT Muslim but CHRISTIAN SCIENCE MONITOR....

ANY MORE LIES TO REFUTE ???

:)
 
Proud_Muslim said:
HERE IS MY CHALLENGE TO EVERYONE IN THIS FORUM TO SHOW ME ONE VERSE FROM THE QURAN THAT SAYS KILL THOSE NONBELIEVERS WHO REFUSE TO CONVERT ????????????????

:rolleyes:

Quite a few here PM - Sort it.

Direct quotes from the Quran:

ANNOUNCE PAINFUL PUNISHMENT TO THOSE WHO DISBELIEVE (9:3)

O Prophet! urge the believers to war; if there are twenty patient ones of you they shall overcome two hundred... (8:65)

Surely the vilest of animals in Allah's sight are those who disbelieve (8:55)

And fight with them until there is no more persecution and religion should be only for Allah (8:39)

When the sacred months have passed away, THEN SLAY THE IDOLATERS WHEREVER YOU FIND THEM, AND TAKE THEM CAPTIVES AND BESIEGE THEM AND LIE IN WAIT FOR THEM IN EVERY AMBUSH, then if they repent and keep up prayer [become believers] and pay the poor-rate, leave their way free to them (9:5)

And if they intend to act unfaithfully towards you, so indeed they acted unfaithfully towards Allah before, but He GAVE YOU MASTERY OVER THEM (8:71)

FIGHT THEM: ALLAH WILL PUNISH THEM BY YOUR HANDS AND BRING THEM TO DISGRACE, AND ASSIST YOU AGAINST THEM. (9:14)

FIGHT THOSE WHO DO NOT BELIEVE IN ALLAH, nor in the latter day, nor do they prohibit what Allah and His Messenger have prohibited, NOR FOLLOW THE RELIGION OF TRUTH, OUT OF THOSE WHO HAVE BEEN GIVEN THE BOOK [Christians and Jews], until they pay the tax in acknowledgment of superiority and THEY ARE IN A STATE OF SUBJECTION. (9:29)

O Prophet! strive hard against the unbelievers and the hypocrites and be unyielding to them; and their abode is hell, and evil is the destination. (9:73)

O you who believe! fight those of the unbelievers who are near to you and let them find in you hardness; and know that Allah is with those who guard (against evil). (9:123)

I WILL CAST TERROR INTO THE HEARTS OF THOSE WHO DISBELIEVE. THEREFORE STRIKE OFF THEIR HEADS AND STRIKE OFF EVERY FINGERTIP OF THEM. THIS IS BECAUSE THEY ACTED ADVERSELY TO ALLAH AND HIS MESSENGER; AND WHOEVER ACTS ADVERSELY TO ALLAH AND HIS MESSENGER - THEN SURELY ALLAH IS SEVERE IN REQUITING (EVIL). THIS - TASTE IT, AND (KNOW) THAT FOR THE UNBELIEVERS IS THE PUNISHMENT OF FIRE. O you who believe! When you meet those who disbelieve marching for war, then turn not your backs to them. And whoever shall turn his back to them on that day - unless he turn aside for the sake of fighting or withdraws to a company - then he, indeed, becomes deserving of Allah's wrath, and his abode is hell; and an evil destination shall it be. So you did not slay them, but it was Allah Who slew them and you did not smite when you smote (the enemy) but it was Allah Who smote, and that He might confer upon the believers a good gift from Himself; (8:12-17)

And that you should judge between them by what Allah has revealed, and do not follow their low desires, and be cautious of them, lest they seduce you from part of what Allah has revealed to you; but if they turn back, then know that Allah desires to afflict them on account of some of their faults; and most surely many of the people are transgressors. Is it then the judgment of the times of ignorance that they desire: and who is better than Allah to judge for a people who are sure? O YOU WHO BELIEVE! DO NOT TAKE THE JEWS AND THE CHRISTIANS FOR FRIENDS; THEY ARE FRIENDS OF EACH OTHER; AND WHOEVER AMONGST YOU TAKES THEM FOR A FRIEND, THEN SURELY HE IS ONE OF THEM; SURELY ALLAH DOES NOT GUIDE THE UNJUST PEOPLE. (5:49-51)

The punishment of those who pit themselves against Allah and His Messenger and strive to make mischief in the land is only this, that they should be murdered or crucified or their hands and their feet should be cut off on opposite sides or they should be imprisoned; this shall be as a disgrace for them in this world, and in the hereafter they shall have a grievous chastisement, except those who repent before you have them in your power (5:33-34)

Believe therefore in Allah and His apostles, and say not, Three. Desist, it is better for you; Allah is only one god: far be it from his glory that He should have a son. (4:171)

What is the matter with you, then, that you have become two parties about the hypocrites, while Allah has made them return (to unbelief) for what they have earned? Do you wish to guide him whom Allah has caused to err? And whomsoever Allah causes to err, you shall by no means find a way for him. THEY DESIRE THAT YOU SHOULD DISBELIEVE AS THEY HAVE DISBELIEVED, SO THAT YOU MIGHT BE ALL ALIKE; THEREFORE TAKE NOT FROM AMONG THEM FRIENDS UNTIL THEY FLY THEIR HOMES IN ALLAH'S WAY; BUT IF THEY TURN BACK, THEN SEIZE THEM AND KILL THEM WHEREVER YOU FIND THEM, AND TAKE NOT FROM AMONG THEM A FRIEND OR A HELPER. (4:89)

As for those who disbelieve in Our communications, We shall make them enter fire; so oft as their skins are thoroughly burned, We will change them for other skins, that they may taste the punishment (4:56)

Surely they who disbelieve in the communications of Allah - they shall have a severe punishment; and Allah is Mighty, the lord of retribution. (3:4)

Allah 's Apostle said, " I have been ordered to fight with the people till they say, 'None has the right to be worshipped but Allah,' and whoever says, None has the right to be worshipped but Allah,' his life and property will be saved by me except for Islamic law, and his accounts will be with Allah, (either to punish him or to forgive him.)" (Hadith 4:52:196)

Allah's Apostles said, "When a slave (of Allah) commits illegal sexual intercourse, he is not a believer at the time of committing it; and if he steals, he is not a believer at the time of stealing; and if he drinks an alcoholic drink, when he is not a believer at the time of drinking it; and he is not a believer when he commits a murder," 'Ikrima said: I asked Ibn Abbas, "How is faith taken away from him?" He said, Like this," by clasping his hands and then separating them, and added, "But if he repents, faith returns to him like this, by clasping his hands again. (Hadith 8:82:800e) [So, with the clap of a hand, they can do whatever they want?]

The Prophet said, "The one who commits an illegal sexual intercourse is not a believer at the time of committing illegal sexual intercourse and a thief is not a believer at the time of committing theft and a drinker of alcoholic drink is not a believer at the time of drinking. Yet, (the gate of) repentance is open thereafter." (Hadith 8:82:801)

(Isolated incident) ...then prostrated himself, and all who were with him prostrated too. But an old man took a handful of dust and touched his forehead with it saying, "This is sufficient for me." Later on I saw him killed as an infidel. (Hadith 5:59:311)

[yes the Jews and Muslims are both descendents of Abraham, but here is the attitude towards descendants of Abraham through Isaac (the Jews]: "If they find you, they will be your enemies, and will stretch forth towards you their hands and their tongues with evil, and they ardently desire that you may disbelieve. Your relationship would not profit you, nor your children, on the day of resurrection; He will decide between you; and Allah sees what you do. Indeed, there is for you a good example in Abraham and those with him when they said to their people: Surely we are clear of you and of what you serve besides Allah; WE DECLARE OURSELVES TO BE CLEAR OF YOU, AND ENMITY AND HATRED HAVE APPEARED BETWEEN US AND YOU FOREVER UNTIL YOU BELIEVE IN ALLAH ALONE (60:2-4)
 
Vienna:

You are a LIAR, COPYING AND PASTING FROM HATE SITE WONT HELP YOU........DONT BOTHER YOURSELF...NOT A SINGLE VERSE IN THE QURAN SAYS KILL THOSE UNBELIEVERS WHO REFUSE TO CONVERT TO ISLAM.........

TRY AGAIN DUDE... :D
 
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Proud_Muslim said:
Vienna:

You are a LIAR, COPYING AND PASTING FROM HATE SITE WONT HELP YOU........DONT BOTHER YOURSELF...NOT A SINGLE VERSE IN THE QURAN SAYS KILL THOSE UNBELIEVERS WHO REFUSE TO CONVERT TO ISLAM.........

TRY AGAIN DUDE... :D

IT IS NOT FROM A HATE SITE - IT IS FROM THE QURAN.

IF YOU THINK IT IS NOT FROM THE QURAN THEN PROVE IT.
 
Jihad in the Quran

Allah orders Muslims in the Quran to terrorize non-Muslims on His behalf:
“Strike terror (into the hearts of) the enemies of Allah and your enemies.” 8:60

“Fight (kill) them (non-Muslims), and Allah will punish (torment) them by your hands, cover them with shame.” 9:14

“I will instill terror into the hearts of the unbelievers, smite ye above their necks and smite all their finger-tips off them It is not ye who slew them it was Allah.” 8:12, 17
 
Somebody once counted the times the word “kill” and other words derived from it that appeared in the Quran and Hadith and found them to be about 24,400 times.

It is bad enough if a religion calls on adherents to kill themselves, but what right do they have to kill others?

If Allah gives Muslims the right to kill, what kind of God is he that orders followers to kill innocent people on his behalf?

Over to you PM..........................
 
If Allah gives Muslims the right to kill, what kind of God is he that orders followers to kill innocent people on his behalf?
the "most merciful" :rolleyes:

rakhman, my ass!
 
Vienna said:
IT IS NOT FROM A HATE SITE - IT IS FROM THE QURAN.

IF YOU THINK IT IS NOT FROM THE QURAN THEN PROVE IT.

And of course you had the quran between your hands when you were posting, right ??? :D
 
otheadp said:
If Allah gives Muslims the right to kill, what kind of God is he that orders followers to kill innocent people on his behalf?
the "most merciful" :rolleyes:

rakhman, my ass!

How about your TALMUD, Mr Jew ???

The Jewish Talmud specifically defines all who are not Jews as non-human animals.

Erubin 21b. Whosoever disobeys the rabbis deserves death and will be punished by being boiled in hot excrement in hell.

Moed Kattan 17a. If a Jew is tempted to do evil he should go to a city where he is not known and do the evil there.

Jews are Divine:

Sanhedrin 58b. If a heathen (Gentile) hits a Jew, the Gentile must be killed. Hitting a Jew is the same as hitting God.

It's O.K. to Cheat Non-Jews:

Sanhedrin 57a. A Jew need not pay a Gentile ("Cuthean") the wages owed him for work.

Jews Have Superior Legal Status: :rolleyes:

Baba Kamma 37b. "If an ox of an Israelite gores an ox of a Canaanite there is no liability; but if an ox of a Canaanite gores an ox of an Israelite ... the payment is to be in full."

Jews May Steal from Non-Jews:

Baba Mezia 24a. If a Jew finds an object lost by a Gentile ("heathen") it does not have to be returned. (Affirmed also in Baba Kamma 113b).

Sanhedrin 76a. God will not spare a Jew who "marries his daughter to an old man or takes a wife for his infant son or returns a lost article to a Cuthean ... "

Jews May Rob and Kill Non-Jews:

Sanhedrin 57a. When a Jew murders a Gentile ("Cuthean"), there will be no death penalty. What a Jew steals from a Gentile he may keep.

Baba Kamma 37b. Gentiles are outside the protection of the law and God has "exposed their money to Israel."

Jews May Lie to Non-Jews:

Baba Kamma 113a. Jews may use lies ("subterfuges") to circumvent a Gentile.

Non-Jewish Children Sub-Human:

Yebamoth 98a. All Gentile children are animals.

Abodah Zarah 36b. Gentile girls are in a state of niddah (filth) from birth.

Abodah Zarah 22a-22b. Gentiles prefer sex with cows.
 
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Vienna said:
Jihad in the Quran

Allah orders Muslims in the Quran to terrorize non-Muslims on His behalf:
“Strike terror (into the hearts of) the enemies of Allah and your enemies.” 8:60

You see how DUMB you are, you dont know what you are quoting, here is the verse 8:60 :

''And make ready against them all you can of power, including steeds of war (tanks, planes, missiles, artillery, etc.) to threaten the enemy of Allâh and your enemy, and others besides whom, you may not know but whom Allâh does know. And whatever you shall spend in the Cause of Allâh shall be repaid unto you, and you shall not be treated unjustly. ''

This verse is about preparing for the enemies of Islam, it is great verse and we are proud of it, as I said, we DONT TURN THE OTHER CHEEK.

And since you are dumb hater and lair ( quoting from hate site ) you did not post 8:61 , the verse just AFTER the above one:

The Noble Quran 8:61. But if they incline to peace, you also incline to it, and (put your) trust in Allâh. Verily, He is the All-Hearer, the All-Knower.

You see Vienna, you see how easy to BUST your and your hate site's LIES !!!

:D

“Fight (kill) them (non-Muslims), and Allah will punish (torment) them by your hands, cover them with shame.” 9:14

Again, it is always my pleasure to REFUTE your lie:

Let us read 9:13 :

13. Will you not fight a people who have violated their oaths (pagans of Makkah) and intended to expel the Messenger, while they did attack you first? Do you fear them? Allâh has more right that you should fear Him, if you are believers.

and then 9:14

14. Fight against them so that Allâh will punish them by your hands and disgrace them and give you victory over them and heal the breasts of a believing people,

So this verse revealed to fight ( NOT KILL ) the pagans of mecca who VIOLATED their oaths and attacked Muslims....again, we dont turn the other cheek, we HIT BACK....AND WE ARE PROUD OF IT.

“I will instill terror into the hearts of the unbelievers, smite ye above their necks and smite all their finger-tips off them It is not ye who slew them it was Allah.” 8:12, 17

You see how dumb you are !! you were copying and pasting not knowing what the hell you are pasting !! 8: 12-17 contains 5 VERSES while you copyed and pasted only ONE !!! cant you be more dumb than that ?

:D
 
Temper temper..... tut tut!

Now try again PM - explain those quotes from the Quran properly.
 
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