Islam Must Rule the World
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Don't worry, still talking about ruling the world, only in terms of reality rather than bogeymen.
Exactly
I always believed that its not Islam that is behind all of these "atrocities", rather it's the extremists and their Political goals. Why is Islam a religion that contributed tons to the modern world (mathematics, astronomy, and medicine?)? I think the key is the "Golden Age" of Islam, in which there was peace and prosperity.
Now, however, there is war and disaster, which in turn leads to young men ruled by hate turning to Islam as some sort of justification for their crimes (which it is not and in fact condemns the murder of innocence, etc) and because of the POLITICAL status of the Middle East, it causes people to look towards something that justifies their actions. That's behind the terrorism, not Islam.
Kadark,
The problem with the assertion you are making is you are also making an assumption there was great advantage to ME being Islamic.
There wasn't great advancement. I think an argument can be made that advancement was in actuality hindered. Firstly, you can simply read what happened to the Byzantine under Christendom - as I posted above. Then read what happened to those societies post-Muslim invasion. Now stop and think that people in the ME have always made some advancements. So it should not be any different under an "Islamic" empire - people did progress.
But there are two other things to consider
1) They did so very bloody slowly and
2) in some areas of expertise they never equal achievements of thier polytheistic/atheistic Romans and Greeks ancestors.
What does that say to you? Of the many "achievements" Islam gave to the World often the greatest is their preservation of Greek literature, philosophy and maths and science. What does that suggest?
What was the best peace of Islamic maths? Did it equal the concept of mathematical proofs or Archimedes's near-advent of calculus? What about medicine? What of Civil rights and democracy? Where are the sculptures of human form? Bronzes? Mechanical devices?
Yes there were achievement's in some areas but considering that they had the knowledge of the Greeks they certainly didn't get very far. That's just a fact of history.
Michael
The problem with the assertion you are making is you are also making an assumption there was great advantage to ME being Islamic.
There wasn't great advancement. I think an argument can be made that advancement was in actuality hindered. Firstly, you can simply read what happened to the Byzantine under Christendom - as I posted above. Then read what happened to those societies post-Muslim invasion. Now stop and think that people in the ME have always made some advancements. So it should not be any different under an "Islamic" empire - people did progress.
But there are two other things to consider
1) They did so very bloody slowly and
2) in some areas of expertise they never equal achievements of thier polytheistic/atheistic Romans and Greeks ancestors.
What does that say to you? Of the many "achievements" Islam gave to the World often the greatest is their preservation of Greek literature, philosophy and maths and science. What does that suggest?
What was the best peace of Islamic maths? Did it equal the concept of mathematical proofs or Archimedes's near-advent of calculus? What about medicine? What of Civil rights and democracy? Where are the sculptures of human form? Bronzes? Mechanical devices?
Yes there were achievement's in some areas but considering that they had the knowledge of the Greeks they certainly didn't get very far. That's just a fact of history.
Michael
That guy is not real? And what is there to rule unless you are a dictator?
What would these passive takeover schemes rule? the money? they have that already, the resources...get serious. the people...hmmmmm.
Go back to sleep Johnny.
Lets fantasize about what Ahmedinejad says (since he has invaded, occupied and bombed so many people) and ignore what is currently happening in real time in the world TODAY.
Happy Thanksgiving to you too SAM
I wasn't sleeping. ......pipedream. Put them to sleep SAM
Try again. :sleep:
http://www.globalissues.org/
Go back to sleep Johnny.
Lets fantasize about what Ahmedinejad says (since he has invaded, occupied and bombed so many people) and ignore what is currently happening in real time in the world TODAY.
What is happening SAM? Getting rid of a dictator in Iraq? Getting bombed randomly whenever someone decides to? loooong before 9-11 wasnt this happening?
And for what SAM?
The embassy bombings?
why?
Tell us.
You know people have been saying this same line since the time of the Pharaohs in Egypt. Roman Senators often compared how things used be much better when people worshipped the Gods appropriately. Then they usually went about killing people for their troublesome cults.
Maybe you don't get it, but this is why fundamentalists of all walks of life strike a cord with people and why those people are then easily tricked into killing some other people.
And again, you have this rose colored view of Islamic history.
I think we can agree that being a really really devout atheist communist isn't going to make communism successful.
Right?
Well I know many Russians who have this rosy remembrance of communist Russian, back in the good old days... ... well, the truth is it never really happened.
Michael
There was. Before the Caliphate, the middle east was full of different tribesmen and Persians who went to war with Byzantians, who went to war with barbarians, etc. It was an endless cycle of war and uneasiness.
Hindered? I see no point in debating you, man. Are you f^ing serious? HINDERED? Science was hindered by Islam?
A number of modern scholars, notably Robert Briffault, Oliver Joseph Lodge, Will Durant, Fielding H. Garrison, Alexander von Humboldt, Muhammad Iqbal, and Abdus Salam, consider modern science to have begun in the Islamic civilization, in particular, due to the beginning of the modern scientific method among Muslim scientists.
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No they didn't...what the hell are you talking about? The Golden Age was about 500 years and included rapid advancements. Their stretch of flourishing was long, and their discoveries were abundant.
They surpassed them because of their scientific methods with experimenting.
Their new approach to scientific inquiry led to the development of the scientific method in the Islamic world. In particular, the empirical observations and quantitative experiments of Ibn al-Haytham (Alhacen) in his Book of Optics (1021) is seen as the beginning of the modern scientific method
-wiki
The best piece of Islamic mathematics? Take your pick. Algebra, arithmetic, calculus, cryptography, geometry, induction, number theory, trigonometry...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamic_mathematics
No Michael, that's bullshit, plain and simple.
Fraggle Rocker
Staff member
Virtually all of those deaths occur in Third World countries with despotic governments, not in western industrial nations. I fail to see how those deaths facilitate our lifestyles. This has nothing to do with our capitalist influence; capitalists want consumers to buy their products and there are no consumers in destitute countries. To the extent that there may still be some unreformed robber-barons running American corporations (e.g. Halliburton Corp.), exploiting the Third World for resources, those corporations will be outcompeted by more englightened corporations who recognize the economic reality that prosperous consumers generate more profits than cheap resources.
Many sincere good-hearted people clamor that we must "do something" about Darfur and other hearthbreaking regions, but what? Every time we meddle in the affairs of other nations we just make them worse. That is, after all, how the Third World got to be the way it is: the more advanced societies have been meddling in their affairs since the days of the Egyptians and Romans. I keep reading these anguished op-ed pieces in the Washington Post, written by educated Africans, pleading, "Please leave us the hell alone and let us solve our own problems, no matter how long it takes. You people mean well but all your clueless "help" does is to make it harder for us."
So how exactly is capitalism in western countries starving a lot of children in say, Africa? Today?
If anything western countries try to help them creating a lot of non-profit organizations that go there and help. Capitalism makes use of the cheap labor there, how exactly does that lead to starving babies? If anything, it helps parents feed their babies...
There are things like diamonds and other natural resources that keep part of Africa corrupt and stagnated but those issues can be eliminated.
If anything western countries try to help them creating a lot of non-profit organizations that go there and help. Capitalism makes use of the cheap labor there, how exactly does that lead to starving babies? If anything, it helps parents feed their babies...
There are things like diamonds and other natural resources that keep part of Africa corrupt and stagnated but those issues can be eliminated.
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Very interesting read.
http://www.youthlinks.org/article.do?articleID=983&sl=e
In conclusion, the rich prosper at the tremendous expense of the poor.
That is absolutely correct. Not everyone can be wealthy, you must understand.
Picture a scale, if you will. In order for one arm to rise (become rich), the other arm must lower (live in poverty). Capitalism doesn't allow for the arms of the scale to be even, because it is either hit (rich) or miss (below average/poverty) in such a system. For the most part, the rich build a monopoly, making them richer. Meanwhile, the average/poor people continue to sink economically.
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So the problem with capitalism is that it's not able to handle the apparently natural attitude of humans to attend to their own needs instead of those of others.
More on topic: I don't see Islam improving this situation. Can you make any practical examples?
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