Duh, please read history, not beddy bye tales:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tanzimat
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mahmud_II
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Islam Must Rule the World
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Duh, please read history, not beddy bye tales:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tanzimat
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mahmud_II
I'm sure the "loss" of CAIR's membership had a deep impact on the Muslims; shows how safe they feel practising their faith huh?
I notice all your best friends were on the list.
Good to see right-minded people finally taking notice and taking action.
A Democrat President will go a long way towards eliminating these weasels.
As to the rest, its more Spencermania. eeek terrorists/insurgents/whatever in Iraq, Lebanon, Palestine. Fuck yeah, lets ignore the utter decimation of their populations and blame them for being upset!
Not like the nice Americans who invaded a country on suspicion of WMDs. If only the mooslims were as civilised!
But of course! They were perfectly satisfied being dropped in vats of acid or burned with chemicals. But an infidel comes to liberate them, and they simply cannot take that torture.:bawl:
*straps bomb to chest in utter despondency at being liberated by kaafirs*
Gawd, you guys swallow any shit.
Geoff, your arguments from ignorance are getting extremely tedious.
Please do not cite Pape without at least reading his work first.
Also if you cared to notice, his was not the sole work.
Ad nauseum, I have posted links to his work, but as usual you are reticent to read beyond the reviews on Jihadwatch
http://www.amazon.com/Dying-Win-Strategic-Suicide-Terrorism/dp/0812973380
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dying_to_Win:_The_Strategic_Logic_of_Suicide_Terrorism
Also, poor treatment of minorities in poor underdeveloped countries (and even apparently relatively developed ones, like the imam from Canada) are not a Muslim phenomenon; let me repeat, its not the Muslims who have consistently colonised and reduced self sustaining societies to poverty, depending on fiat money or colonisation to fuel their progress at the expense of entire populations. And continue to do so.
With 30,000 children starving daily, the US is reluctant to consider food as a basic right of all humans or ratify the Rights of the Child. Profit margins, see?
Please do not cite Pape without at least reading his work first.
Also if you cared to notice, his was not the sole work.
Ad nauseum, I have posted links to his work, but as usual you are reticent to read beyond the reviews on Jihadwatch
http://www.amazon.com/Dying-Win-Strategic-Suicide-Terrorism/dp/0812973380
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dying_to_Win:_The_Strategic_Logic_of_Suicide_Terrorism
Also, poor treatment of minorities in poor underdeveloped countries (and even apparently relatively developed ones, like the imam from Canada) are not a Muslim phenomenon; let me repeat, its not the Muslims who have consistently colonised and reduced self sustaining societies to poverty, depending on fiat money or colonisation to fuel their progress at the expense of entire populations. And continue to do so.
With 30,000 children starving daily, the US is reluctant to consider food as a basic right of all humans or ratify the Rights of the Child. Profit margins, see?
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aka it's much easier to point fingers and blame evil "capitol" than offer any resemblance of a solution.
apparently not you.
more red-herring I see. Hey you're the one that's worried about what a sky daddy will think not me.
No, its much easier to believe in the myth of liberty and secularism when the people you kill are kept under wraps or are far enough away that you can pretend they don't really exist (we don't do body counts). As long as your society is doing well, as long as you can drive to the corner and get yet another unnecessary meal, who really cares about the costs?
http://www.globalpolicy.org/socecon/hunger/economy/index.htm
http://www.urban75.com/Action/genetix15.html
Yeah, but unlike me, you're the one exploring hypothetical morals rather than very real present issues.
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I ate way too much tonight. I'm feeling a bit ill.
You are really stretching it SAM. People "I" kill. I kill people? How in hell do "I" kill people? What about you SAM - killing any people today?
What was the solution you were offering? How are you going to motive humanity to feed starving children? "Islam" :bugeye: Believing in middle eastern cmagical sky daddies is somehow going to create food and feed children?:bugeye:
Riiiggghhttt.
I wonder SAM, was it the Secular Democracies fault that 30 million Chinese Communists starved to death? How about the 5 million Koreans? Why did they starve?
NOTE: I cycle to work.
What's the saying: Those who cannot remember the past are doomed to repeat it.
Do you think Religous leaders have power over people?
Do you think Religion can be used to control people?
Ever wonder if you are being controlled?
Ever think that a society that can not contemplate a moral dilemma involving Mohammad's command that a slave girl be put to death may be a society regressing not progressing? Sometimes little things like the complete loss of the beauty of the human-form can disappear completely in such societies.
If you can not see how the past relates the to the future or how morals connect to society I find if hard to image you being able to offer a solution to the motivate people of the world to feed starving children.
Well, what's SAM's solution?
Michael
I know! It's getting so that it's impossible to keep a membership with an unindicted accomplice to terrorism these days! Especially since the correlation between being allowed to practice islam and CAIR membership is - what? 90%? 95%? Total correspondance. Why, I bet mosque membership dropped off 90% during the same period! Stands to reason! Perfect sense!
I notice all your best friends were on the list.
Good to see right-minded people finally taking notice and taking action.
Yeah - hatred goes a lot further when you can suppress the dissenters. Still, the usual response is bombings, riots and murder, so I suppose it could have been worse. Don't worry about us, though. Far from over, and the site gets more press every day.
As to the rest, its more Spencermania. eeek terrorists/insurgents/whatever in Iraq, Lebanon, Palestine. Fuck yeah, lets ignore the utter decimation of their populations and blame them for being upset!
Yes. The utter decimation of their populations in the 20th century certainly explains the 1400 years of suppression and oppression of non-muslims.
Actually...yeah, that's not too far off.
Aw, that's so sweet. I really wish a theist were able to give me lessons in gullibility. Did you want to post a link to a confused Dawkins? Take your time.
Just the only one relevant to your main point.
No. But post away; I promise to give your links all the attention you give mine. Incidentally, because suicide bombing - with which you seem to be obsessed to the exclusion of any other issue, which is odd - is effective (or not), how does that change the religious picture? Did Pape make a specific study of religious obsession within islamic suicide bombing and find them to be irreligious?
Man. Stretch those findings and wave your hands. :roflmao: Oh, really? The big mean Canadians beat him up? Who's this again? LOL.
/sarc
Which is why they're so far advanced today, I'm sure.
/sarcoff
...Pakistan, Asia Minor, Syria, Persia, North Africa, Egypt...
Sudan.
Well thank goodness all political islam deals in is oil. Nothing inherently vicious about that, at least.
How does creating capitol starve people? I can see how unfair trading laws combined with corrupt government can result in the starvation of people but I fail to see how capitalism itself starves anyone.
The Chinese starved a hell of a lot of people with no need of capitalism. Actually the "West" + Japan sent a lot of food to China. We fed a lot of Chinese with our system of production. Actually, some to think of it, Russians were always a bit hungry back in the day.
How did people provide themselves with enough food to eat in the past - say 50 years ago. How does capitalism prevent people from making food in the manner that they had?
There is a balance between population and resources. It seems populations are exploding. Iran is always pushing to have many many more people. If in the future there is famine will it be the fault of the West that many Iranians don't get enough to eat? Is it our responsibility to feed them? I would want to of course but I wouldn't say it's our fault if their population goes from 20 million to 120 and a few years of bad weather combined with poor management makes food scarce.
Anyway, where are the solutions?
Michael
The Chinese starved a hell of a lot of people with no need of capitalism. Actually the "West" + Japan sent a lot of food to China. We fed a lot of Chinese with our system of production. Actually, some to think of it, Russians were always a bit hungry back in the day.
How did people provide themselves with enough food to eat in the past - say 50 years ago. How does capitalism prevent people from making food in the manner that they had?
There is a balance between population and resources. It seems populations are exploding. Iran is always pushing to have many many more people. If in the future there is famine will it be the fault of the West that many Iranians don't get enough to eat? Is it our responsibility to feed them? I would want to of course but I wouldn't say it's our fault if their population goes from 20 million to 120 and a few years of bad weather combined with poor management makes food scarce.
Anyway, where are the solutions?
Michael
Stopped right there. Obviously you did not read the links so far on the issue. Pointless asking questions, in that case.
Incidentally, because suicide bombing - with which you seem to be obsessed to the exclusion of any other issue, which is odd - is effective (or not), how does that change the religious picture? Did Pape make a specific study of religious obsession within islamic suicide bombing and find them to be irreligious?
1. There were other studies in that link; if you ever bother to look them up you'll find terrorism per se requires investment, education and dedication; not something you'll find in the average citizenry of the ME, who are too busy surviving their own despots.
2. the only religious obsession here is yours.
3. don't cite
Do you know any different? I'm curious, have you any information about how Muslims feel about practising their faith openly post 9/11? You appear to have researched the issue, so I await your findings.
I'm glad you can see how oppression can be counter productive.
More Bobby Spence? Less history? Where did the Coptics hide from subjugation? The Jews, over and over? The holocaust did not happen in the Islamic world.
http://muslim-canada.org/tolerance.htm
How many religious minorities in the West before they discovered colonialism and fiat currency?
Which leads on to this:
GeoffP said:
How hard is it to get rich and prosperous when the costs are paid by other people?
The atheist card?
Wow, that sure proves how smart you are!
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Dear geoff,
the point is that israel has Nukes and has the ability to use them, and has threatened to blow up the Aswan dam and has said they will atack iran and so on and so forth.
Yes all people want to do the normal thing, i refer to israelis in this aswell.
how are you so sure iran will use their non existent nukes, when again they are 3-10 years way from developing them like they were 3-10 years away from devloping them in the late 80's. i doubt Ahmendijad will be president when they or if they have nukes.
Or is it Iran which is the problem rather than Ahmenidjad???!!??
Well at least they are a signatory to the NPT not like ISrael so they have the right to devlop nuclear energy etc..
~~~~~~~~
take it ez
zak
Well that explains why suicide bombing never occurs there, then.
One would have wondered at the connection between "investment, education and dedication" and religion; or maybe it would just be better if the timeless Samwise would just extract the zero correlation between religion and suicide bombing in the ME, or the zero correlation between (islamic) religion and repression, sharia, and dhimmitude from the sociological data. I mean, surely it must be there? How simple to post their findings, or indicate the page of the article? Think you can manage that, barbeque?
Yes, that certainly explains the term "martyrdom video". No one ever mentions Allah in those, I'm sure.
I'm merely asking for the line where he says religion doesn't matter in i) suicide bombing and ii) religious repression with respect to islam. Yet you seem to be squirreling away. What confidence should I have that any of your points are supported? But post your link again. I might look at it.
No - that was your assertion, from the decline in membership at an organization which is an unindicted collaborator in terrorism. I didn't immediately see the absolute correlation between that and the practice of the muslim faith itself, as you seemed to, but perhaps you know better than I.
Yes, it can. Too bad thrice-attempted genocide is even less productive.
Of course a holocaust happened in the islamic world; a slow genocide and culturicide of the indigenous peoples by invading muslims and their culture. Religious minorities are fleeing from the munificence of islamic "protection" faster and faster. (Thank Allah for air travel, one supposes.)
Oooh, you should probably ask the caliphs, too. I understand they ruled over large swathes of other people.
It removes the veil from in front of my eyes, so to speak.
And if they find someone nuttier? He's a mouthpiece, at least in part, for a theocracy that wants to bring on the next Mahdi. This does not strike me as a safe thing for anyone else. So it is "Iran"; or rather their leadership.
Assuming they stay bound to all its requirements, which they have not done, unfortunately.
Perhaps you should live in the ME for a year or two; it's a good idea to study a subject before commenting on it, yeah?
http://education.independent.co.uk/schools/article2201860.ece
Then you'd see how ridiculous such opinions sound in retrospect:
What about Israel?
http://education.independent.co.uk/schools/article2201860.ece
Then you'd see how ridiculous such opinions sound in retrospect:
What about Israel?
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And America, Russia etc, SAM they hardly fulfil their NPT obligations either, the NPT asks that all memebers with Nukes actively go about elminating.disarming/reducing their nuke stock plies. but thats ok isnt it Geoff
and geoff
the "leadership" in Iran has also said that Nuclear bombs are non islamic and that they are not going to produce them.
If the presidency of Iran is only a mouth peice then why did not khatomini (the guy before Ahmendijad) or the toher fellow rafsanjani come out with the same rhetoric??
Israel has threatened to bomb Iran and has threatened to bomb the Aswan dam surely you shou,ld be more worried about hat than Iran as israel can carry through its threat and Ahmendijad cant carry through his (even though it is debatable what he actually threatened) threat
~~~~~~~~
take it ez
zak
Grantywanty
Registered Senior Member
since the topic of this thread is Should Islam rule the world? I'd like to repeat the obvious: No. That Judaism or Christianity are also poor choices is clear from the behaviors of the nations with leaders who proclaim to be followers of those religions. the monotheists will spread hate against other monotheists, but also against pagans, athiests, and anyone who does not think the goal of life is to listen to authority figures who 'know best.' The rule of any of these religions would spell the end of human creativity, love of the body and freedom and child rearing practices not based on hate.
may the monotheisms fade into something better.
Peace
may the monotheisms fade into something better.
Peace
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