Im sorry but doesnt the space shuttle defy gravity?
islam is the truest way of life
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Im sorry but doesnt the space shuttle defy gravity?
Would you not agree Diamond Hearts?
He already did:
He's wrong about this though:
Those who believe and those who are Jews and Christians and Sabians, whoever believes in God and the Last Day and does righteous good deeds shall have their reward with their Lord. On them shall be no fear, nor shall they grieve. (Qur'an 2:62; also 5:69).
I wouldn't because I do not believe that Christ is divine/ I think he's dead
But its okay with me that you consider him a representation of God, just like its okay with me that Buddhists and Hindus have other representations. Some people need more physical gods even if its just a stone idol.
But its okay with me that you consider him a representation of God, just like its okay with me that Buddhists and Hindus have other representations. Some people need more physical gods even if its just a stone idol.
But, of course, he isn't. See? He's God! And you love God, don't you? So now you're a Christian!
In all seriousness, you can see that some people resent being lumped into groups with which they have theological differences, as you do. You cite for example, the "need" to have a physical god as a slight, rather than merely mentioning the existence of same. (Personally, I find such theologies with their physical representations as fascinating as those without.) By a similar same token, I'm not muslim, whether you accept it or not, because I don't believe in either the prophecy of Mohammed or the existence of your version of God. I think it's better to just recognize, applaud and respect differences rather than lump everyone into groups based on our preconceptions of the world. DH, by the same token, is a Christian, because he lives in the Euclidean Christian world.
In all seriousness, you can see that some people resent being lumped into groups with which they have theological differences, as you do. You cite for example, the "need" to have a physical god as a slight, rather than merely mentioning the existence of same. (Personally, I find such theologies with their physical representations as fascinating as those without.) By a similar same token, I'm not muslim, whether you accept it or not, because I don't believe in either the prophecy of Mohammed or the existence of your version of God. I think it's better to just recognize, applaud and respect differences rather than lump everyone into groups based on our preconceptions of the world. DH, by the same token, is a Christian, because he lives in the Euclidean Christian world.
I never said you were Muslim. Islam requires you to acknowledge Mohammed's teachings. Few people are willing to abandon their beliefs but its not really necessary to do so. Mohammed never pushed anyone to convert because he knew that people who read his teachings would accept them if they agreed with them.
Unfortunately much of his message has been demonised and corroded. I agree with the message of Islam, moreso because as an Indian I have lived it. I see that when Hindus pray to this or that stone idol they address the same causality that defines my religion. Which is why I do not extend my personal opinions and beliefs as being required for all people. If someone feels better by going to a dargah and putting flowers on the grave of a dead saint, its not my place to tell her that its shirk.
If she believes in God and treats people as though her behaviour made a difference, thats enough for me. Even if she did not believe in God, but was kind and fair, I'd say her religion was between herself and God and was not something I needed to be involved with.
Unfortunately much of his message has been demonised and corroded. I agree with the message of Islam, moreso because as an Indian I have lived it. I see that when Hindus pray to this or that stone idol they address the same causality that defines my religion. Which is why I do not extend my personal opinions and beliefs as being required for all people. If someone feels better by going to a dargah and putting flowers on the grave of a dead saint, its not my place to tell her that its shirk.
If she believes in God and treats people as though her behaviour made a difference, thats enough for me. Even if she did not believe in God, but was kind and fair, I'd say her religion was between herself and God and was not something I needed to be involved with.
All right; but this was DH's argument, which was what I was referring to.
Fair enough, and good on you.
A very ecumenical view. My salutations, madam!
Geoff
It was not his argument, it is the basic belief in Islam. Everyone by fitra is Muslim. We are all born with an inclination to believe in God and since there is only one God and as Mohammed described all prophets came from him, we are all born as Muslims. This is what the Islamic faith says.
I think a major problem today is like oversize tee shirts, we think one size fits all. Its important to acknowledge that people are different. For some people God is a benevolent old man, heaven is a garden and hell is a lake of fire. But religion is more than allegorical analogies. For the thinking man it is the quest for the ends of the universe. But even thinking men visit the graves of loved ones and put flowers on them, while acknowedging that there is no one home. Not everything has to be rational to be fulfilling.
All right, but you said to be muslim you had to believe in islam. Is this a dichotomous thing?
Quite right. I couldn't have put it better.
Somewhat. One does not embrace Islam, one returns to it.
Yes, Islam is very easy to understand as your last two-worded phrase quoted would demonstrate.
Myth and superstition. Duh.
DiamondHearts
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Eventually, it is up to Allah swt who enters Heaven and who does not. He has given us criteria from the Quran which prove that Allah swt will judge this by people's actions and beliefs. Muslims don't assume to know the future, we are just humans who have submitted to God. He will judge of who is worthy of Paradise or not, it is not our place.
Yet, if one, after having basic knowledge of the teachings of Islam, rejects the message from this merit, this is a very dangerous position to be in.
Yet, if one, after having basic knowledge of the teachings of Islam, rejects the message from this merit, this is a very dangerous position to be in.
Your superiority complex is what is dangerous, to those who reject your myths and superstitions.
I thought your responses were pretty enlightened SAM, but not uniformly shared in the Islamic community.
Thank God, never had that pleasure, I'm not into anti-hedonism as a way of life. Keep all the thought police away from me, from the ones who would enforce liberation in their Gitmos or secularism in their gulags to the ones who would force liberation in their veils and secularism in their bombs.
As far as I am concerned they are all the same.
As far as I am concerned they are all the same.
Yes exactly my point. Keep science and life seprate. That is what I'm arguing for.
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