The same thing can apply to societies that are not religious in any way. Fact is that the problem is not religion, it is people who abuse. These are the same people who will abuse, say, the US Constitution, for their own personal gain or to commit heinous acts and justify it. Does that mean that somehow the foundation of the US or the generally accepted societal norms and values are heinous as well? No.
islam is the truest way of life
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The same thing can apply to societies that are not religious in any way. Fact is that the problem is not religion, it is people who abuse. These are the same people who will abuse, say, the US Constitution, for their own personal gain or to commit heinous acts and justify it. Does that mean that somehow the foundation of the US or the generally accepted societal norms and values are heinous as well? No.
We are arguing theisms, not religions.arsalan said:
According to SAM, there are no such societies. The attempts to create them, by atheists of course, don't last. Any that have lasted are theistic, of necessity.
Don't look at me, it's not my argument.
I'd be more willing to accept that deflection if you will accept it the other way - the benefit is not from religion, but from people who behave well.arsalan said:
Meanwhile, we see some obvious patterns in the abuse that seem to correspond with various religions. Are we to assume that the various evils of recent American imperialism have nothing to do with the overt and public theistic allegiances of those in command and their supporters? That the degradations in the Sudan have no relationship to the religions of the perpetrators and victims? That the differences in local behavioral outcome of America's conquering of Japan in '45 and Iraq in '03 hove nothing to do with the religions of the people involved?
So its not the US Constitution that is the foundation of the US and defines what the US is about, its people willing to behave acordingly? Isnt the Constitution then just an agreed upon text filled with the acceptable practices, norms and values of humanity throughout our history?
Seeing as how the people and groups those leaders were flirting with have themselves denounced those leaders for not being "Christian" enough, I'd say they used the groups and religion to get the votes they needed and dumped them afterwards.
The political situations in all of Africa stem from the creation of "borders" during a period of imperialism. Officialy tribes lost power, unofficially they stille rule the country. Why is that? Because they, being the most important groups, were excluded when theyre continent was being carved up. Its more to do with land and power than it has to do with religion.
I cant say with certainty about Japan in '45 because the atom bomb was designated a "Gift from God" by the President then, but Iraq in '03 seems to have resulted more from disinformation and greed.
Oh, now you are embarrassed, how cute.
Like everything else you "know" you are again mistaken.
I love it when you subs try to puff yourselves up like that. Yes, you are so "way better." You sure "know your place" alright and its on your knees.
Yes, I know.
Don't have a king, but I've stood down people in power before. Don't have a "soul" (whatever that is supposed to be) but I do have what you lack - a spine.
Does that make you feel tough honey?
Sorry, I'm not into guys and I don't need a sub at the moment, but I'm sure you know where to find what you need.
I think the biggest failing of islame after being a big deception its that is boring.
Obviously. And how classic using the actual urban myth in an attempt to discredit actual research.
But then again some say I'm obsessed with keeping things clean
They can treat that these days.
Two key points about dogs.
I learned more from dogs than I ever learned from the koran.
Given a choice between a bone and the koran, a dog knows which is best.
Of course. Virtue is from the deity, sin is from the sinner, bad outcomes are the consequences of sin. That's standard in the successful theisms - and most other large social systems. My term for it is "kudos capture", indirectly via this book , and successful systems all exhibit the ability.SAM said:
So what's your point?arsalan said:
My point is that those commanders, and those policies, and that war with most of its soldiers and almost all of its pilots, are a gift from the strong local theism factions in the US. Most support it to this day (I believe only the Muslim factions have withdrawn their initial backing completely).
lol..of what??where did that come from?
somethings don't need to clarified in words..
everyone is submitting and "on his knees" to someone..it's just a matter of associating ourselves with the strongest..that's all
just showes how helpless you are in this thread huh?? what a lowly waste of time method..
a spine can be broken..a soul can not..
wow..very nice quote of myself..i'll note it down..thanks swarmie..
sadly it doesn't..the weak will be destroyed..if i can give a hand to someone to raise him to my level i would..why do you think i'm here talking to you?? why would i care if you went to hell or not??
??????????????????
hey what's a sub?
hey you misspelled it..it's islam..you added an e..lol.. seems i'm not the only one with writing problems..
I don't think you really want to use that as your life strategy. You should seek to get everything into words and only accept that something is beyond words after you've repeatedly failed to capture it in words. What you are doing now is called - copping out.
Spoken like a true sub.
Sure sub.
Look it up. You do know how to do that right?
Sure. I misspelled islame.
What urban myth?
I know. My father is a psychiatrist and he keeps telling me to knock it off
2 key points:
I learned more from the Quran than I ever will from any dog.
Given a choice between a dog adn the Quran, Id take the Quran and study it.
See what I did there? Your post is useless, doesnt add anything.
DiamondHearts
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What kind of nonsense is being ascribed to me this time. You posters need to be more honest and straightforward, I utterly dislike this duplicity displayed on these forums.
The verse I quoted is quite clear, "Let there be no compulsion in religion. Truth has been made clear from error. Whoever rejects false worship and believes in Allah has grasped the most trustworthy handhold that never breaks. And Allah hears and knows all things.”" (Quran Surah al Baqarah 2:256)
Next time anyone wishes to attribute charges against me or to imply something which I don't stand for, do the honest and honorable thing and ask me personally to clarify my views.
The verse I quoted is quite clear, "Let there be no compulsion in religion. Truth has been made clear from error. Whoever rejects false worship and believes in Allah has grasped the most trustworthy handhold that never breaks. And Allah hears and knows all things.”" (Quran Surah al Baqarah 2:256)
Next time anyone wishes to attribute charges against me or to imply something which I don't stand for, do the honest and honorable thing and ask me personally to clarify my views.
Then one you linked to. Where you quote Dr. Chicken Soup who has obviously not been keeping up in his filed.
That's rough.
He should know better. Usually people can't just "knock it off" or they already would have. If it starts getting in the way go see some one other than your dad. They have stuff that can take the edge off these days.
You've never had a personal relationship with a good dog.
And its left you crippled.
Which urban myth?
He knows. You see, I dont take his advice and he knows. So theres no point in him analysing me and advising me on how to deal with it. So he just says to knock it off if it gets too excessive.
My father had dogs which he kept out of the house in Pakistan.
Nope, I havent been physically or psychologically crippled by the Quran. In fact, its opened my eyes quite a bit.
Clearly, you haven't done any research and are lying to protect your cults beliefs.
Saliva from a dog when compared with saliva from humans allows much less bacteria to grow. In other words, dogs have cleaner mouths than humans.
Then, you should actually take the time to learn something rather than basing your entire worldview on unfounded beliefs.
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