Islam In Europe
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No, he is utterly wrong
He is right that appeasing people gives them power and that you don't want paranormal-believing lunatics to have power.
By going against them, you are commiting a far worst crime than they are.
Thoreau
Valued Senior Member
I believe he is both right and wrong, But then again, what is right or wrong is based on personal opinions. I think that he may be culturaly ignorant when it comes to Islam, yet has the right frame of mind when applying religion to public life when he says that religion should stay personal.
Absolutely, religion cannot reach political power, that I agree with. But to condemn a whole religion because of some stupid fanatics is just as ignorant as those fanatics are.
Thoreau
Valued Senior Member
:thumbsup:
Human beings naturally judge other groups specifically based on what the average fanatic in those groups do. One specific question is asked... "are they mean?".
Those whom are judging really should be giving feedback to those judged instead of appeasing them. If the judged group wants to change their perception then its up to them after that.
Islam is a barbaric religion and it inspires many of its followers to be fanatics. Islam is the route cause of the majority of terrorism currently in the world.
Hmm, well almost. History shows that it is likely Christianity that is the route cause of the current level of terorrism. Had not the Christians tried to wipe out or convert the muslims during the Crusades then the small independent tribes of islamic peoples of those times would have been unlikely to have ever grouped into a large cooperative unit that we see today.
Appearntly it is on record that Bin Laden's fight is partly an attempt to seek revenge for that earlier Christian barbarism and he sees the USA as being at the forefront of similar Christian evangelism and hence his primary target.
Either way - religion is the center cause of the current state of world terrorism.
Hmm, well almost. History shows that it is likely Christianity that is the route cause of the current level of terorrism. Had not the Christians tried to wipe out or convert the muslims during the Crusades then the small independent tribes of islamic peoples of those times would have been unlikely to have ever grouped into a large cooperative unit that we see today.
Appearntly it is on record that Bin Laden's fight is partly an attempt to seek revenge for that earlier Christian barbarism and he sees the USA as being at the forefront of similar Christian evangelism and hence his primary target.
Either way - religion is the center cause of the current state of world terrorism.
Here's a thought:
Various nations oppose the US based on national interests or social justice; yet I'm sure they have nothing against individual Americans. A policy change by Washington would (or could, anyway) put the US back in good international graces again. The US is nothing more, at the core, than an organization. Similarly, "Islam" (or political islam in particular) is nothing more than another organization. If there is widespread tolerance for extremist sentiment in a given organization, or widespread intolerance, then is there any real reason not to condemn it, so long as one is not condemning the specific people that constitute it? I don't condemn muslims, but I'm very condeming of totalitarian memes that permeate islam. And, if islam were to simply change its outlook, I would have no objection to it as an organization or general meme. Who would care, really, if there were no reason not to be concerned?
So, is Bush your God?
Emm, there are many ramifications of Islam, they are even fighting each other. But there are also peacefull Islamic people as well, and even Sufis are "Muslims"; word which, by the way, literally means "one who submits to God".
So, you cannot treat Islam as an organization like a country, but the religious practice of many different people.
"Some stupid fanatics"? You seem to be under the impression that extremist muslims are just a small minority. Let me clue you in here:
There about 350 million muslims living in countries where they execute people for trying to leave the Islamic religion (Saudi Arabia, Qatar, Yemen, Iran, Sudan, Afghanistan, Mauritania, and Pakistan). That's about 30% of the total muslim population in the world. When you consider all the countries like Egypt where they would almost certainly establish an extremist Islamic government if they were allowed to actually hold free elections, it's probably closer to 50% of all muslims. So it's not like we're talking about a few lone nuts here. This is a huge group of people who are trying to live in the dark ages instead of the 21st century, and they make up a large fraction of the total muslim population. How large of a fraction of a religion’s followers have to be nuts before we pass judgment on that religion? 60%? 80%? If the religion has a billion nut-job followers and there are three guys who follow the religion but aren’t nuts, are we still required to respect it because of those three?
It should be noted that according to Islam, their prophet Mohammad very explicitly stated that anyone who tried to leave the religion should be executed. I think that blows a pretty big hole in all these arguments that Islam is really a peaceful religion, doesn’t it?
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Does this also include the people trying to leave the religion? I assume there are massive executions, as all the 350 MILLION people voluntarily chop up their kids and friends and neighbors?
I don´t think those number are accurate, not all of the 350 million people are fanatics, or not even Muslims, only a small portion of them. And Afganistan? c´mon man, the US is almost done with them, all that is left is goats and cammels.
Are you kidding? Most of those countries have free elections, and the extremist Islamic leaders keep getting elected over and over. The governemnt in Saudi Arabia is facing a constant struggle because most of the population doesn't think that they're extreme enough in enforcing strict Islamic law.
When the U.S. helped the Afghan rebels kick the Taliban out and the country finally held free elections, they voted in Hamid Karzai, an Islamic fundamentalist. I would say "extremist," but his views aren't really very extreme compared to the rest of the muslim population. There was never even a question of repealing the death penality for people who try to leave Islam.
I think you need to expand your worldview. I spent 5 years in Saudi Arabia and I disagree with your view of the population.
I also think you need to spend some time wondering why western type governments are so unpopular in these peoples. And no "they hate our freedoms" is not it.
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I have never been to Saudi Arabia, so I'm sure you know much more about them than I do. But do you disagree that most of the population supports the execution of apostates under Islamic law?
I assume it's because they want to have an Islamic government.