Islam and Science
- Thread starter MKT
- Start date
Hey luca, it's good to have you with us. Now, tell me more about Mohammad and his insights. You need to state your position and tell us what you believe.
Here's the link I was trying to share with you...
http://www.islam-watch.org/SyedKamranMirza/Quran-Human-Embryology.htm
Here's the link I was trying to share with you...
http://www.islam-watch.org/SyedKamranMirza/Quran-Human-Embryology.htm
yes that's true, but:
1-what's the point of you asking, i.e what're you gonna do with the answer?
that should give us a clearer image of how exactly to answer your question..
as for the link bowser gave, i've never ever ever in my life skimmed through a sorry excuse of crap and nonsense for an article in my life.
1-what's the point of you asking, i.e what're you gonna do with the answer?
that should give us a clearer image of how exactly to answer your question..
as for the link bowser gave, i've never ever ever in my life skimmed through a sorry excuse of crap and nonsense for an article in my life.
Its called islam watch which is the muslim equivalent of jew watch.
http://www.jewwatch.com/
What did you expect?
http://www.jewwatch.com/
What did you expect?
Seems to me there's a big difference between islam-watch and jewwatch right from the get-go. Islam-watch seems to have several authors with muslim names, jewwatch only has white anglo saxon redneck writers. I'm also not sure if islam-watch has a "no muslims and blacks" rule to match jewwatch's "no jews and blacks" rule. Also wondering if islam-watch is being run by a member of the Aryan nation like jewwatch. In any case, I'm not trying to justify islam-watch and its purpose. If they're even 10% like jewwatch when it comes to sponsoring hate propaganda and rewriting jewish history, referencing sources who themselves reference sources who themselves just made their shit up on the fly, then even 10% is going way, way too far. But on first glance I don't think these two websites are even comparable. One page looks like a page full of seething hate from an openly confessed neo-nazi who demonizes jews everywhere they live and regardless of their lives and politics. Another looks like a bunch of articles both from western and ex-muslim writers criticizing the islamic religion. Is there anything you can point me to that would draw a more solid connection besides the common naming style?
As for science in the Quran... if there really was any science in the Quran, it would have been known about in advance of the actual discoveries. Never heard anyone credit the Quran with a direct role (not just inspiration) for optics, architecture, medicine and algebra- i.e. no one deduced the axioms and methods directly from the Quran. And if the medieval Arabic sciences (which were themselves inherited from Greece, India and China) were derived from the Quran, the Arabs wouldn't have fallen so far out of the race so soon after they reached their pinnacle. Nowadays we just have these people running around with their own personal translations of the Quran and they say "look! My distorted translation says the universe is expanding! Aha! We don't need to listen to Mr. Smartypants Einstein, we could have known about the Big Bang if only we read the Quran!" I can only presume a Quranic method of calculating redshifts, gravitational lensing effects, cosmic microwave anisotropy and the General relativistic cosmological constant are sure to follow. Maybe the Quran can give us a thorough explanation of the rules of quantum gravity, before some mortal human being eventually figures them out the old-fashioned way. Would be the first time in verifiable history that the Quran managed to "predict" something before it actually happened.
As for science in the Quran... if there really was any science in the Quran, it would have been known about in advance of the actual discoveries. Never heard anyone credit the Quran with a direct role (not just inspiration) for optics, architecture, medicine and algebra- i.e. no one deduced the axioms and methods directly from the Quran. And if the medieval Arabic sciences (which were themselves inherited from Greece, India and China) were derived from the Quran, the Arabs wouldn't have fallen so far out of the race so soon after they reached their pinnacle. Nowadays we just have these people running around with their own personal translations of the Quran and they say "look! My distorted translation says the universe is expanding! Aha! We don't need to listen to Mr. Smartypants Einstein, we could have known about the Big Bang if only we read the Quran!" I can only presume a Quranic method of calculating redshifts, gravitational lensing effects, cosmic microwave anisotropy and the General relativistic cosmological constant are sure to follow. Maybe the Quran can give us a thorough explanation of the rules of quantum gravity, before some mortal human being eventually figures them out the old-fashioned way. Would be the first time in verifiable history that the Quran managed to "predict" something before it actually happened.
Depends on your point of view, I might say for example that Jew watch is an excellent resource on Zionism and the author is not only not anonymous but also can be contacted. Islam watch on the other hand seems to be a lot of names that go nowhere. Maybe islam watch is run by those who know how the media works and how to present stuff so it looks more convincing? No idea. Meanwhile, its a load of hasbara.
e.g. Syed Kamran Mirza links back to David Horowitz and Frontpagemag and seems hard to locate as an individual. Could you locate him for me?
e.g. Syed Kamran Mirza links back to David Horowitz and Frontpagemag and seems hard to locate as an individual. Could you locate him for me?
Muslims used to be at the cutting edge of science. At that time, they innocently assumed that everything revealed by science would support their religious viewpoint. It was the same with Christian scholars who got their start from studying Islamic texts. While all that is admirable, nothing in the Quran seems to indicate a knowledge beyond what could have been known at the time.
Quran is greater than being a scientific document
HI everybody
first, thanks for replying.
Then, i want to say to cptBork how can u say that there is no science in Quran, this is an indication of your misunderstanding of sense of a holy Book that is given from GOD.
do u think that GOD well give us all sciences, he will say in Quran for e.g :
'' In physics, mass–energy equivalence is the concept that the mass of a body is a measure of its energy content.... SO believe me faithfuls''
This is poor understanding.
GOD create us to do that, to discover and he who obligate the religious laws wich well help us to develop , and u should know that Quran hints to some Scientific Discoveries, this is some of what i remember now:
What do u think about someone who said that under sea there is volcano, and said that Earth is moving and he hint to the oval form of earth.
If u dont believe i'll give u proofs so clearly from HOLY Quran in ARABIC and his translation for more trustiness.
---- The earth is moving:
وَتَرَى الْجِبَالَ تَحْسَبُهَا جَامِدَةً وَهِيَ تَمُرُّ مَرَّ السَّحَابِ -النمل 88-القران
88-Ants . Thou seest the mountains and thinkest them firmly fixed: but they shall pass away as the clouds pass away: (such is) the artistry of Allah, who disposes of all things in perfect order: for he is well acquainted with all that ye do.
u'll say why GOD said the mountains is moving and he didnt said earth is moving, this is a very imporatant point.
We all know that before 1430 year, all the world think that the earth is flat and Galileo was hanged because he said that the earth is spherical and in islam there is a principle of facilitation or simplification, do u think that -Quraish- will forgive Prophet Mohammed for this Sarcasm on their beliefs.
Thats why GOD say it by this vague way Application of the principle of facilitating on people's minds in that century.
---- The earth is oval:
وَالْأَرْضَ بَعْدَ ذَلِكَ دَحَاهَا ﴿30﴾-النازعات
And the earth, moreover, that He extended (believe me i didnt find the real translation of word 'دحاها' -Dahaha- the last word 'extended', but u can ask an expert in arabic language if u want a christian arabic grammar but with trustiness about the mean of the word -Dahaha-).
and this is a translation of the meaning of the word -Dahaha- from an arabic dictionary
(Aldho) in the Arabic language is the tide, rugs and dumping, said: (Daha) thing (Idhoh) (Dhawwa) any simpler, extend, or delivered by the roll, It is said: (Daha) rain gravel from the face of the earth ie, rolled, washed....)
and for more information and confirmation, in LIBYA (arabic country,north africa near my country TUNISIA) they call eggs -Dihi-, and dont forgot that all the world are witness to the richeness of the ARABIC language.
---- Under sea there is volcano:
Not contained in the Quran, but it reported in an essay trusted of the Prophet Mohammed (peace upon him):
عن عبد الله بن عمر رضي الله عنهما قال : قال رسول الله صلى الله عليه وسلم : (( لا يركب البحر إلا حاج أو معتمر أو غاز في سبيل الله فإن تحت البحر نا ر وتحت النار بحرا...)) صدق رسول الله صلى الله عليه وسلم
Abdullah ibn Omar said: The prophet Mohamed peace upon him said : (( Nobody sailing in the sea whether pilgrim or Moatamer (means pilgrim also) or invader in the sake of GOD, should know that under sea there is lava (the metaphrase is fire) and under this lava there is sea))
U should take a look to this general truth, in addition the prophet Mohamed didnt sail in the sea even for one time.(u can read about the biography of Prophet Mohamed), so u must ask ur self who would dare to speak about something he have no idea about it.
---- Isthmus of the sea:
قال تعالى: { مَرَجَ الْبَحْرَيْنِ يَلْتَقِيَانِ { 19} بَيْنَهُمَا بَرْزَخٌ لَّا يَبْغِيَانِ { 20} فَبِأَيِّ آلَاء رَبِّكُمَا تُكَذِّبَانِ { 21} يَخْرُجُ مِنْهُمَا اللُّؤْلُؤُ وَالْمَرْجَانُ { 22} فَبِأَيِّ آلَاء رَبِّكُمَا تُكَذِّبَانِ { 23} وَلَهُ الْجَوَارِ الْمُنشَآتُ فِي الْبَحْرِ كَالْأَعْلَامِ { 24} فَبِأَيِّ آلَاء رَبِّكُمَا تُكَذِّبَانِ } ... [الرحمن: 19 - 25].
19. He has let free the two bodies of flowing water, meeting together:
20. Between them is a Barrier which they do not transgress:
21. Then which of the favours of your Lord will ye deny?
22. Out of them come Pearls and Coral:
23. Then which of the favours of your Lord will ye deny?
No Comment:shrug: only:
who would dare to speak about something he have no idea about it.
***Please dont WRITE***
Continued
HI everybody
first, thanks for replying.
Then, i want to say to cptBork how can u say that there is no science in Quran, this is an indication of your misunderstanding of sense of a holy Book that is given from GOD.
do u think that GOD well give us all sciences, he will say in Quran for e.g :
'' In physics, mass–energy equivalence is the concept that the mass of a body is a measure of its energy content.... SO believe me faithfuls''
This is poor understanding.
GOD create us to do that, to discover and he who obligate the religious laws wich well help us to develop , and u should know that Quran hints to some Scientific Discoveries, this is some of what i remember now:
What do u think about someone who said that under sea there is volcano, and said that Earth is moving and he hint to the oval form of earth.
If u dont believe i'll give u proofs so clearly from HOLY Quran in ARABIC and his translation for more trustiness.
---- The earth is moving:
وَتَرَى الْجِبَالَ تَحْسَبُهَا جَامِدَةً وَهِيَ تَمُرُّ مَرَّ السَّحَابِ -النمل 88-القران
88-Ants . Thou seest the mountains and thinkest them firmly fixed: but they shall pass away as the clouds pass away: (such is) the artistry of Allah, who disposes of all things in perfect order: for he is well acquainted with all that ye do.
u'll say why GOD said the mountains is moving and he didnt said earth is moving, this is a very imporatant point.
We all know that before 1430 year, all the world think that the earth is flat and Galileo was hanged because he said that the earth is spherical and in islam there is a principle of facilitation or simplification, do u think that -Quraish- will forgive Prophet Mohammed for this Sarcasm on their beliefs.
Thats why GOD say it by this vague way Application of the principle of facilitating on people's minds in that century.
---- The earth is oval:
وَالْأَرْضَ بَعْدَ ذَلِكَ دَحَاهَا ﴿30﴾-النازعات
And the earth, moreover, that He extended (believe me i didnt find the real translation of word 'دحاها' -Dahaha- the last word 'extended', but u can ask an expert in arabic language if u want a christian arabic grammar but with trustiness about the mean of the word -Dahaha-).
and this is a translation of the meaning of the word -Dahaha- from an arabic dictionary
(Aldho) in the Arabic language is the tide, rugs and dumping, said: (Daha) thing (Idhoh) (Dhawwa) any simpler, extend, or delivered by the roll, It is said: (Daha) rain gravel from the face of the earth ie, rolled, washed....)and for more information and confirmation, in LIBYA (arabic country,north africa near my country TUNISIA) they call eggs -Dihi-, and dont forgot that all the world are witness to the richeness of the ARABIC language.
---- Under sea there is volcano:
Not contained in the Quran, but it reported in an essay trusted of the Prophet Mohammed (peace upon him):
عن عبد الله بن عمر رضي الله عنهما قال : قال رسول الله صلى الله عليه وسلم : (( لا يركب البحر إلا حاج أو معتمر أو غاز في سبيل الله فإن تحت البحر نا ر وتحت النار بحرا...)) صدق رسول الله صلى الله عليه وسلم
Abdullah ibn Omar said: The prophet Mohamed peace upon him said : (( Nobody sailing in the sea whether pilgrim or Moatamer (means pilgrim also) or invader in the sake of GOD, should know that under sea there is lava (the metaphrase is fire) and under this lava there is sea))
U should take a look to this general truth, in addition the prophet Mohamed didnt sail in the sea even for one time.(u can read about the biography of Prophet Mohamed), so u must ask ur self who would dare to speak about something he have no idea about it.
---- Isthmus of the sea:
قال تعالى: { مَرَجَ الْبَحْرَيْنِ يَلْتَقِيَانِ { 19} بَيْنَهُمَا بَرْزَخٌ لَّا يَبْغِيَانِ { 20} فَبِأَيِّ آلَاء رَبِّكُمَا تُكَذِّبَانِ { 21} يَخْرُجُ مِنْهُمَا اللُّؤْلُؤُ وَالْمَرْجَانُ { 22} فَبِأَيِّ آلَاء رَبِّكُمَا تُكَذِّبَانِ { 23} وَلَهُ الْجَوَارِ الْمُنشَآتُ فِي الْبَحْرِ كَالْأَعْلَامِ { 24} فَبِأَيِّ آلَاء رَبِّكُمَا تُكَذِّبَانِ } ... [الرحمن: 19 - 25].
19. He has let free the two bodies of flowing water, meeting together:
20. Between them is a Barrier which they do not transgress:
21. Then which of the favours of your Lord will ye deny?
22. Out of them come Pearls and Coral:
23. Then which of the favours of your Lord will ye deny?
No Comment:shrug: only:
who would dare to speak about something he have no idea about it.
***Please dont WRITE***
Continued
Last edited:
Are you saying people during the time of Mohammed didn't know about the stars or lava? These vague descriptions only hint at the vastness of what they didn't know.
Galileo was getting into trouble with his local Abrahamic religion more than a hundred years after Christopher Columbus's voyage across the Atlantic.MKT said:
Apparently no one in the Islamic Ottoman empire, despite having the great insights of the Quran ready to hand, fleets of ships, a strong interest in trade, and ports on islands in the Atlantic, had any idea such a voyage was possible before the Christians did it.
Probably because Isabella and Ferdinand the ones who headed the Inquisition, financed it after much of the trade route was controlled by the Ottomans who had no need for additional routs. Thats in between the time they were stretching Muslims on racks and hanging Jews upside down or burning their ankles.
That, and the Ottomans had no idea it was possible for the hundreds of years prior, despite their reading of the Quran - the Ottoman empire did not get a single scientific insight or advantage from the Quran.SAM said:
So they failed to get control of a major trade route, and missed out on a source of great wealth.
The topic of the thread being Islam and Science.
I think the Ottomans learned enough science that they graduated from the Seljuk tribes to a multicultural secular empire with universities and hospitals. Isabella and Ferdinand on the other hand learned how to invest in better weapons and torture methods.
Hasn't changed much has it?
Hasn't changed much has it?
None of which they learned from the Quran.SAM said:
Not even the military techniques and so forth involved in "graduating" to include their neighbors' cultures and territories, creating an empire out of what had been other people's lands, etc.
And "secular" means not governed by religious law - the Ottoman empire was Muslim.
But we digress: this practice of finding all of science in the Quran, after the fact, and then rewriting history in more or less absurd fashion
- - the OP stuff, thread topic - --
is that a growing trend in the Muslim world?
Not at all, its quite common for people to look for validation of current events in scriptures. Haven't you noticed?