Is this a Good reason for a God?

The only thing i could makeout and sure about, in some of Pablo Piccaso's modern art works, is the frame.

?

immorality is the problem of humans, it seems

Yes, we are by far the most intelligent beings on the planet, thus we can analyze actions and make the proper adjustments. All other animals do not have the power of introspection. They merely act on instincts and simple learned behaviors with no meaning attached to their actions. The topic of morality can only be applied to us humans, since we are the only animals capable of thought processes complicated enough to understand our action's and their ultimate consequences.
 
I would have to disagree. The only thing us human got going for us is very high intelligence and hands with opposable thumbs. Many other animals may also be equally intelligent but only have flippers, trunks or tentacles and cannot make technology. Human with the combination of intelligence and the ability to do stuff with it have crushed the world! Human though are animals and still run off instinct: Last time I look humans were still breeding like rabbits, doing things on impulse and having emotions.
 
Fetus-

We are far more intelligent than other animals, technology or no technology. Dont get me wrong, technology has been a major contributor to our current level of intelligence, but if you take a newly born homo sapien and lets say....a walrus, the level of intelligence (minus presently available technology access for the sapien) would still be astonishing when compared to the Walrus. I agree with the statement that we do act on instincts,...... but not in the same way as other animals. We have modified our actions unlike any other animal. We have social constraints that are not applicable to other species that bound us to certain actions and make us supress our natural urges when needed. We are the only species that is capable of having the "Good or Bad" concept.

Im still not sure to what you were dissagreeing with. This is not to say you dont have a point, but instead I think I am confused to what you are trying to convey.
 
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Oh please stop with the ego trip. Intelligence test are not easy and not accurate… why don’t you try comparing human intelligence with whales? what about elephants? their societies seem very advance how do you know they do not have similar constructs? No matter how smart we are we still are animals ruled by impulse.
 
Fetus-

Ego trip?

Humans are ruled by impulses..........but to a lesser degree. We need to have instincts that guide us to our goals, otherwise there would be little to no motivation to reproductive. Emotion and instinct are a lot better to motivate oneself than is conscious inspection. We are further adapted animals, but that does not make us immune to the general workings that keep animals living and moving on.
 
But how can we tell how sentient other animals are and that we are truly above them?
 
I'm sick of arguing on this subject and yet I can't leave it alone:mad:

I'll put it simply,
MooseKnuckle and anyone else; if you don't know anything about different types of animals(you obviously don't) then don't make assumptions about them.
Please.
Its annoying.
 
good reason for a god? um..no

humans are social creatures..

hence morals.. in other words.. 'play nice' :)
 
Dr Lou Natic,

Assumption like they are stupider then us?

alice,

Exactly! msot primates have social order... could that mean tehy have morals to? well without a complex lang. that might be hard.
 
Originally posted by WellCookedFetus
Dr Lou Natic,

Assumption like they are stupider then us?
Click to expand...
Well yeah and listing their shortcomings, shortcomings that he has no way of knowing they have like a lack of introspection and so on.

Exactly! msot primates have social order... could that mean tehy have morals to? well without a complex lang. that might be hard.
Click to expand...
Some of the primate languages are very complex, its just that most of them don't revolve around verbal communication. They use alot more intricate body language than we do.
Dogs actually communicate with their sense of smell, they can detect aspects like time and previous events and things like that simply with smell.
Dolphin and whale social groups all have their own languages and in many cases they are much more complex than human languages.
In any species of cetacean there are groups with their own culture and language, for example a killer whale from the south pacific would have trouble communicating with one from the north atlantic because they would speak a completely different language, and that whale from the south pacific's family would have a different accent to the another south pacific whale from a different family. Also toothed whales can communicate with sonar and we humans have no idea what that entails.
So you see cetaceans are at least as diverse as humans and I'm sure they would have their own morals. Their morals would probably be alot more sensible than ours though because they have been perfecting them for 50 million years as opposed to our couple of hundred thousand years.
People dismiss animals as mindless instinct machines because the animals can't express their thoughts to people, but remember you can't express yourself to an animal either so what makes you any better?
 
No matter how smart we are we still are animals ruled by impulse.

==================================
==================================
==================================


You are a tri-unine being.......

---------body------

---------spirit-------

---------soul--------

--In your body you have five senses (see, hear, feel, tase, smell)

--In your spirit you have five senses (reasoning, imagination, memory, emotion, conscience)

--In your soul is (faith, or doubt.)



This body is a result of cross-breeding - between Eve- who was a daughter of God, and the serpent..."the missing link" between man and ape.

Your spirit is from god, however it is a fallen nature.
You by-passed your actual spirit man (a theophany) to come here and be tempted in the flesh. If you had been a theophany first, a word body, as Jesus was, you would have known all things.

Your soul is either from God, or not - there lies the difference.
The serpent, being the closest animal to man , had a place for a soul... but no soul there......
If you have a seed of God, it could lay there in a dormant state all your life..... Untill quikened by the Holy Spirit.
Thats why the It is like the sun, it quikens the seed there to life.

Then it will bring the spirit and the flesh into subjection to the soul as it grows to maturity within.
 
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Originally posted by MooseKnuckle
All other animals do not have the power of introspection. They merely act on instincts and simple learned behaviors with no meaning attached to their actions. The topic of morality can only be applied to us humans, since we are the only animals capable of thought processes complicated enough to understand our action's and their ultimate consequences.
Click to expand...
Watch a dog that has peed on the floor or chewed up a slipper... I think you might change your mind.

~Raithere
 
TheVisitor:

Do you ever have anything new to say or do you just spout this same drivel wherever you go?
How about contributing something relevant to the discussion perhaps?

Otherwise, please move your soapbox somewhere else.

~Raithere
 
Dr Lou-

I do not appreciate your "speculations"

Human beings are, at the very least, a certain specific kind of organism. We have bodies, which are composed of an assortment of different parts that generally function in unison, and we have brains and a nervous system, which appear to be responsible for producing and reproducing much of our spontaneous bodily behavior, and which appear to be the seat of thought, emotion, sensation, and action.

What kind of strange entity is a person if human beings can be both animals and persons, and if persons are "something more" than simply animals or kinds of animals? That we can know about persons, and know that we are persons, some believe is a result of our capacity for introspection. There is, it would seem, a way that I have of knowing about myself from the inside, and thus a way of experiencing myself — my thoughts and my sensations — which is not available to anyone else who can observe me only from the outside. There is something that it is like to be me, to which I alone have access, and I know that I am a person because I experience myself as a person: I am aware of myself and of my environment, I have sensations, beliefs, hopes, desires, and fears, and I am capable of reflecting upon all of this

If thinking is something done by brains, and brains are just physical things composed of tiny cells which process information, then why couldn’t a computer, which is a physical thing composed of tiny microchips which process information, be able to think? If thinking does not require a soul (since non-human animals certainly do appear to think), might some non-human animals still qualify as persons even if we do have souls and they don’t? Since we do not hold other animals accountable for their actions in the same way we do humans, do you dare to say they have morality?? In that they have the same capacity to understand the meaning of actions and how they relate to others.

The one defining human characteristic may be our awareness of our mortality. The automatically triggered, "fight or flight", battle for survival is common to all living things (and to appropriately programmed machines). Not so the catalytic effects of imminent death. These are uniquely human. The appreciation of the fleeting translates into aesthetics, the uniqueness of our ephemeral life breeds morality, and the scarcity of time gives rise to ambition and creativity.

In an infinite life, everything materializes at one time or another, so the concept of choice is spurious. The realization of our finiteness forces us to choose among alternatives. This act of selection is predicated upon the existence of "free will". Animals and machines are thought to be devoid of choice, slaves to their genetic or human programming.

Introspection - the ability to construct self-referential and recursive models of the world - is supposed to be a uniquely human quality. What about introspective machines? Surely,such machines are PROGRAMMED to introspect, as opposed to humans. To qualify as introspection, it must be WILLED.

Do we still have a problem gentlemen?
 
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Raithere-

Watch a dog that has peed on the floor or chewed up a slipper... I think you might change your mind.

I see what your saying. This is not due to introspection. The dog will make the connection between action and consequence but a notion of it being "wrong" is not there. The dog will understand, in a sense, that this particular behavior will lead to a negative consequece (getting yelled at or hit) The dog does not understand that peeing on the floor is bad because its owner will have to clean it up or chewing a slipper will make the shoewear obsolete. The dog does not realize that this behavior has ill effects on the human, but instead it makes the association between this behavior and the reprimandiing it gets. Basically it does not understand why they have commited a wrong, all they know is a simple cause and effect relationship.
 
:confused:
Of course I still have a problem.
It seems like you didn't read anything I said as I feel the need to repeat myself.
Thats all well and good, you know alot about yourself, but you clearly know very little about animals so you aren't qualified to make these judgements. Just because you can be aware of yourself doesn't mean they can't be, where is the logic in that? You haven't said anything other than "I am aware of mortality, I'm assuming animals aren't, soooo you know, I rule" so you are very far from swaying me in your direction thats for sure.
 
You are wrong about dogs too. My dog doesn't urinate on the floor but he does occasionally vomit on it, he doesn't get punished for this at all but he is still noticably ashamed.
You can't be sure what a dog is thinking so why do you claim you are? Thats very insulting, to me on their behalf.
 
Lou-

Animals are aware of themselves, but not in the same way as humans.

I really dont care if you are swayed or not.
 
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