Is this a Good reason for a God?

Originally posted by WellCookedFetus
Some people I met on a theology forum claim that there must be a god because if there was not there would be no need for morals and rules and everyone could be bad and kill each other...

Now I'm no theologian (I only go to those site to defend evolution) but I want some advice from some other theologians here about if the above belief is right or wrong?
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Hi WellCookedFetus
I do not believe that having a God belief makes somebody "moral" nor do I think that the world would be devoid of morality or the need for morals and rules without God belief would be absent. Being "bad" and "killing each other" is present in some believers as well as some non believers. There are bad apples in every bunch. I do not know what gives people the propensity to equate belief in God with morality. I am a theist however I feel that for the most part people are good regardless of any religiously stemmed belief systems or lack of...
 
thank you Amie for porvide me with a strait and to the point answer!, unlike some other people here...
 
Originally posted by Kython13
Depends on whether you're the cannibal or the cannibalized
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That means cannibals have more probability to pass on the genetics..;)

My point is people out there are driven by the realities than reading and following theories - "genetics survival or at the very least that your memes carry on. "
 
Originally posted by everneo
My point is people out there are driven by the realities than reading and following theories - "genetics survival or at the very least that your memes carry on. "
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Which ironically is a theory, your theory. Do you live by the words you write or do you preach what you don't believe?

No offense is inteded, but i just can't help it. ;)
 
(cough) "And thou shalt eat the fruit of thine own body, the flesh of thy sons and of they daughters, which the Lord thy God hath given thee, in the siege, and in the straitness, wherewith thine enemies shall distress thee." (Deutoronomy 28:53)

seems like the bible say so?

yep I believe in selfish genetics as the cause of everything and all that some call evil.
 
Originally posted by WellCookedFetus
(cough) "And thou shalt eat the fruit of thine own body, the flesh of thy sons and of they daughters, which the Lord thy God hath given thee, in the siege, and in the straitness, wherewith thine enemies shall distress thee." (Deutoronomy 28:53)

seems like the bible say so?

yep I believe in selfish genetics as the cause of everything and all that some call evil.
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Read the rest of the passage.

http://www.hti.umich.edu/cgi/r/rsv/rsv-idx?type=DIV1&byte=719426

Take note of verses 15, 20, 25, and 47 in chapter 28

This passage tells of the punishments for not obeying God. Gruesome, defeniately, but life wasn't pretty back then. It wasn't comfortable like it is now.
 
Originally posted by Kython13
Which ironically is a theory, your theory. Do you live by the words you write or do you preach what you don't believe?

No offense is inteded, but i just can't help it. ;)
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:confused: i give up.. Cris, spuriousmonkey.. u guys must be laughing..:D
 
Originally posted by Kython13
I don't know anymore. I'm confused now. :confused:

What were you saying the bible was saying when you said
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Confused now only..! Read the thread carefully from beginning...:)

"Thou shalt not kick thy buddies
and shalt not cheer thy opponents"

Not in Bible. ofcourse.! :)
 
Did you ever think that if an intelligent God (or rational force of some kind) did not pre-exist then there would really be no rational reason for anything? The beautiful, complex and yet orderly physical universe that we live in would have come from something "dumb" - capable of producing intelligent beings who, with all their intelligence, have trouble understanding their own consciousness and the complex results of the action(s) of the "dumb" thing which they perceive - pretty smart and tricky for being "dumb", huh?
 
Originally posted by firefighter
Did you ever think that if an intelligent God (or rational force of some kind) did not pre-exist then there would really be no rational reason for anything.
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Teleology would suffer, "rational reason" [sic] would remain in effect.
 
FireFighter,

What would the side effects of no rational reason for existence be? I would also mean that we are irrelevant no matter how great we think we are and that fact would also invalidate your example of why there must be a good reason.
 
How's about a reasonable rational reason?

Originally posted by WellCookedFetus
What would the side effects of no rational reason for existence be?
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What is the difference between "rational reason" and "reasonable reason"? :p
 
Re: How's about a reasonable rational reason?

Originally posted by ConsequentAtheist
What is the difference between "rational reason" and "reasonable reason"?
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Rational Reason is logically explained rationale.
Reasonable Reason is Rational Reason twisted to conform with societal prejudices and commonalities.
 
Originally posted by firefighter
Did you ever think that if an intelligent God (or rational force of some kind) did not pre-exist then there would really be no rational reason for anything?
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I never quite understood this POV. Why is it so important that there is a single, underlying, causative, reason behind everything? I find it a rather futile endeavor. Anyway, even if there were a God to give purpose to the Universe, God herself would have no reason for being. Once again, God is simply a means to move back the question one more step, it answers nothing.

The beautiful, complex and yet orderly physical universe that we live in would have come from something "dumb"
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What I find so interesting about this statement is that the value judgments you use here are of human origination. Beautiful, complex, orderly; It seems that man is perfectly capable of supplying his own values.

capable of producing intelligent beings who, with all their intelligence, have trouble understanding their own consciousness and the complex results of the action(s) of the "dumb" thing which they perceive - pretty smart and tricky for being "dumb", huh?
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What is intelligence that makes it so different from that which is 'dumb'?

~Raithere
 
god is just a name given to the sense of 'more'

you know how we humans are..causal thinkers..we gotta fill in the blanks..and man, did they fill in the blanks w/some doosies a long time ago.

hey..who knows..maybe god is gravity..

god is gravity ..god is good, let us thank him for our food

hehe
 
Fetus-

I see you mentioned Richard Dawkins, I am currently reading The Blind Watchmaker, excellent book. It strives to show how the evidence of evolution reveals a universe without design.

Also another good read on this subject is The Moral Animal by Robert Wright. This book discusses the topic of evolutionary psychology.

Morals that are so deeply ingrained in human beings have their beginnings in small packs of individuals. Our current natural diversion to certain acts stemed from our interactions with other humans throughout the thousands of years of our existance. The more successful approach to interaction would allow one to live and sustain basic needs and thus propagate one's genes into future generations. The "un-moral" would not survive to the extend of moral humans in the scope of natural selection.
 
Originally posted by MooseKnuckle
Fetus-

I see you mentioned Richard Dawkins, I am currently reading The Blind Watchmaker, excellent book. It strives to show how the evidence of evolution reveals a universe without design.
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The only thing i could makeout and sure about, in some of Pablo Piccaso's modern art works, is the frame.

The "un-moral" would not survive to the extend of moral humans in the scope of natural selection.
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animals have their own morals by nature. immorality is the problem of humans, it seems. and it struggles constantly with that since time immemorial. btw, plants have any such moral thing..?!
:D
 
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