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Is there God or none?
- Thread starter enton
- Start date
You can't have thoughts without words.
Try thinking of something without actually speaking the words in your head.
You can't.
"Word" and "thought" are synonymous in this respect - hence the same word in ancient Greek.
That is why we also say "spoken word" or "written word". The word is merely the thought. It is either spoken or written to convey it to another person.
Try thinking of something without actually speaking the words in your head.
You can't.
"Word" and "thought" are synonymous in this respect - hence the same word in ancient Greek.
That is why we also say "spoken word" or "written word". The word is merely the thought. It is either spoken or written to convey it to another person.
Sarkus said:You can't have thoughts without words.
Try thinking of something without actually speaking the words in your head.
You can't.
"Word" and "thought" are synonymous in this respect - hence the same word in ancient Greek.
That is why we also say "spoken word" or "written word". The word is merely the thought. It is either spoken or written to convey it to another person.
this is irrelevant though, when we say 'word' it has a different conotation to when we say 'thought'
as in the example of the that scripture, it conveys a different concept.
Sarkus said:Try thinking of something without actually speaking the words in your head.
You can't.
I can do that, it's easy. Imagine a flower for example, its form and color etc...
Silvertusk
Registered Senior Member
Crunchy Cat said:enton, there is no evidence to support the existence of 'God', the Easter
Bunny, Santa Claus, Pink Unicorns, Phraints, Deodanths, and the monster
in your closet.
That is an unfair assumption
There is evidence to support the existence of God. There is also evidence to support the non-existance of God. There is no evidence to prove without doubt the existence of God, neither is there evidence to prove without doubt the non-existence of God.
I think you might have meant the latter.
Please state what evidence there is to support the existence of God.Silvertusk said:That is an unfair assumption
There is evidence to support the existence of God. There is also evidence to support the non-existance of God. There is no evidence to prove without doubt the existence of God, neither is there evidence to prove without doubt the non-existence of God.
I think you might have meant the latter.
True, there is also no evidence to support the non-existence - but then burden of proof isn't on the person trying to disprove the non-existent, but on the person trying to prove the existent.
Sarkus said:Try thinking of something without actually speaking the words in your head.
You can't.
I watched some movie clips, listened to some music, remembered the
feeling of the cold cold ocean in the early morning... all without a single
word crossing my mind. The assertion is therefore not true.
Silvertusk said:That is an unfair assumption
There is evidence to support the existence of God. There is also evidence to support the non-existance of God. There is no evidence to prove without doubt the existence of God, neither is there evidence to prove without doubt the non-existence of God.
I think you might have meant the latter.
It's not an assumption. It's truth (i.e. it is what it is). Consequently, it's
not possible to 'disprove' a claim (i.e. you cannot disprove 'God', the Easter
Bunny, etc...). It is possible to contradict a claim and there is plenty of
evidence that contradict the claim of 'God's existence. What evidence
exists that even remotely suggests that a 'God' may exist? I have not seen
any to date.
Silvertusk
Registered Senior Member
Crunchy Cat said:It's not an assumption. It's truth (i.e. it is what it is). Consequently, it's
not possible to 'disprove' a claim (i.e. you cannot disprove 'God', the Easter
Bunny, etc...). It is possible to contradict a claim and there is plenty of
evidence that contradict the claim of 'God's existence. What evidence
exists that even remotely suggests that a 'God' may exist? I have not seen
any to date.
But herein lies the dilemma. What I might see as evidence that God exist, you would not and vice versa, which is why I have stated in pther threads that it would actually take a personal experience of God himself to convince a Athiest.
Silvertusk said:But herein lies the dilemma. What I might see as evidence that God exist, you would not and vice versa, which is why I have stated in pther threads that it would actually take a personal experience of God himself to convince a Athiest.
I think that perhaps the first place to start is to understnad what evidence
do you see supporting the notion that 'God' exists?
Silvertusk: But herein lies the dilemma. What I might see as evidence that God exist, you would not and vice versa, which is why I have stated in pther threads that it would actually take a personal experience of God himself to convince a Athiest.
*************
M*W: Sorry, but this is just not true. Once a devout Christian, I had personal experiences with God, but I realized that they were only delusions of my wishful thinking. There is no creator god, and there is no dying demigod savior. It's all one great big delusion.
*************
M*W: Sorry, but this is just not true. Once a devout Christian, I had personal experiences with God, but I realized that they were only delusions of my wishful thinking. There is no creator god, and there is no dying demigod savior. It's all one great big delusion.
Medicine Woman said:I realized that they were only delusions of my wishful thinking.
How could you "believe" if you knew they were false? False belief gives false 'hope' (or whatever). But since you knew they were false FOR YOU... you never believed in God or Christianity in the first place! Maybe you can say that you believed in YOUR interpretation of Christianity and God.
Also... I've never really understood how I could get some hope from believing in God... it seems that all people have a different understanding of what God is. Everyone lives in a different world. Every atom is a universe...
So... If you don't believe in God, what do you think made the universe appear? (if it really matters..) If you believe in Big Bang. What made the explosion?
I believe the universe has always existed, 'created' by the mind. Mind is the cause, the physical universe is the effect. The mind is the fire, the universe is the heat. I don't believe in the explosion thing.
-
Moses knew that there was no 'God'. When "God" said to him: "I am (who) I am"... It was actually moses. He himself said that. He found his true self. He merged with "God". He no longer had to speak of IT in 3rd person... But Moses knew that people couldn't understand the thing about the SELF... so he said that God sent him.
There is no creator god, and there is no dying demigod savior. It's all one great big delusion.
Prove it.
Oh... maybe they are delusions FOR YOU. That doesn't mean they're false for someone else, for that certain person, at that certain point in life. Everyone's different y'know.
Oh c'mon, you're all grown ups, (apparently). This isn't kindergarten anymore.. all the fairies, gods and leprechauns - aswell as santa, the tooth fairy and the easter bunny are fictional beings created by man to serve a purpose. Seriously, it's 2005. get a grip.
Yorda: How could you "believe" if you knew they were false?
*************
M*W: Of all the members, how did I know it would be Yorda refuting what I said???
WHEN I was a Christian, I believed in a creator god, Jesus's sacrifice and resurrection, and all the saints. I also believed the Devil was real and had actual fear of him. I was young then, and very impressionable.
It was with time, maturity, station in life, when I learned that Jesus was no dying demigod savior. I came to sciforums at that point, and my search for proof and truth continued.
*************
Yorda: False belief gives false 'hope' (or whatever). But since you knew they were false FOR YOU... you never believed in God or Christianity in the first place! Maybe you can say that you believed in YOUR interpretation of Christianity and God.
*************
M*W: I believed in the Christian interpretation of god and Jesus, but I do agree with you that "false belief gives false hope," which 25% of the world's population falsly believes is the truth.
Christianity BECAME false for me when I understood that Jesus didn't die on any cross. This is one of the reasons I left Christianity.
*************
Yorda: Also... I've never really understood how I could get some hope from believing in God... it seems that all people have a different understanding of what God is. Everyone lives in a different world. Every atom is a universe...
*************
M*W: There is no hope in believing in a god. One should believe in themselves, because that is as close to a god as they're going to get.
*************
Yorda: So... If you don't believe in God, what do you think made the universe appear? (if it really matters..) If you believe in Big Bang. What made the explosion?
*************
M*W: I believe in the randomness we call the BB. We are still in the process of the expanding universe. What caused the "explosion?" Who said there was an "explosion?" The BB didn't have to be a cataclysm, did it? I suspect our universe was created by some form of energy, and that's about as close as I could get to calling it a god. I just don't believe in a being called "God." Humans created god, god didn't create the universe.
*************
Yorda: I believe the universe has always existed, 'created' by the mind. Mind is the cause, the physical universe is the effect. The mind is the fire, the universe is the heat. I don't believe in the explosion thing.
*************
M*W: I agree, but the mind is not the "fire." The mind can only perceive the idea of "fire." The sun was represented to the early humans as "fire" and "heat." The sun melted the icecaps, warmed the oceans, caused ocean life to walk upon the land, helped vegetation to grow, etc. The sun is the only "god" there ever will be. He, Mr. Sol, is caused by many names, but he is one and the same old Sol. If anything exploded, I believe it was the sun. The expanding energy from the sun created our solar system. The rest is history.
*************
Yorda: Moses knew that there was no 'God'. When "God" said to him: "I am (who) I am"... It was actually moses. He himself said that. He found his true self. He merged with "God". He no longer had to speak of IT in 3rd person... But Moses knew that people couldn't understand the thing about the SELF... so he said that God sent him.
*************
M*W: When I believed in the existence of Moses, I would have agreed with you 100%, but now I don't. Moses was a story about monotheism, but it was really about sun worship. Every religion known to man can be boiled down to sun worship.
*************
Yorda: Prove it. Oh... maybe they are delusions FOR YOU. That doesn't mean they're false for someone else, for that certain person, at that certain point in life. Everyone's different y'know.
*************
M*W: I now fully understand from whence god comes. There are no more delusions for me about religions. Atheism is the only truth. I spent years researching Christianity until I found that Jesus didn't die. Now I know the reason Jesus didn't die -- it's that he didn't even live. All religion is a lie.
*************
M*W: Of all the members, how did I know it would be Yorda refuting what I said???
WHEN I was a Christian, I believed in a creator god, Jesus's sacrifice and resurrection, and all the saints. I also believed the Devil was real and had actual fear of him. I was young then, and very impressionable.
It was with time, maturity, station in life, when I learned that Jesus was no dying demigod savior. I came to sciforums at that point, and my search for proof and truth continued.
*************
Yorda: False belief gives false 'hope' (or whatever). But since you knew they were false FOR YOU... you never believed in God or Christianity in the first place! Maybe you can say that you believed in YOUR interpretation of Christianity and God.
*************
M*W: I believed in the Christian interpretation of god and Jesus, but I do agree with you that "false belief gives false hope," which 25% of the world's population falsly believes is the truth.
Christianity BECAME false for me when I understood that Jesus didn't die on any cross. This is one of the reasons I left Christianity.
*************
Yorda: Also... I've never really understood how I could get some hope from believing in God... it seems that all people have a different understanding of what God is. Everyone lives in a different world. Every atom is a universe...
*************
M*W: There is no hope in believing in a god. One should believe in themselves, because that is as close to a god as they're going to get.
*************
Yorda: So... If you don't believe in God, what do you think made the universe appear? (if it really matters..) If you believe in Big Bang. What made the explosion?
*************
M*W: I believe in the randomness we call the BB. We are still in the process of the expanding universe. What caused the "explosion?" Who said there was an "explosion?" The BB didn't have to be a cataclysm, did it? I suspect our universe was created by some form of energy, and that's about as close as I could get to calling it a god. I just don't believe in a being called "God." Humans created god, god didn't create the universe.
*************
Yorda: I believe the universe has always existed, 'created' by the mind. Mind is the cause, the physical universe is the effect. The mind is the fire, the universe is the heat. I don't believe in the explosion thing.
*************
M*W: I agree, but the mind is not the "fire." The mind can only perceive the idea of "fire." The sun was represented to the early humans as "fire" and "heat." The sun melted the icecaps, warmed the oceans, caused ocean life to walk upon the land, helped vegetation to grow, etc. The sun is the only "god" there ever will be. He, Mr. Sol, is caused by many names, but he is one and the same old Sol. If anything exploded, I believe it was the sun. The expanding energy from the sun created our solar system. The rest is history.
*************
Yorda: Moses knew that there was no 'God'. When "God" said to him: "I am (who) I am"... It was actually moses. He himself said that. He found his true self. He merged with "God". He no longer had to speak of IT in 3rd person... But Moses knew that people couldn't understand the thing about the SELF... so he said that God sent him.
*************
M*W: When I believed in the existence of Moses, I would have agreed with you 100%, but now I don't. Moses was a story about monotheism, but it was really about sun worship. Every religion known to man can be boiled down to sun worship.
*************
Yorda: Prove it. Oh... maybe they are delusions FOR YOU. That doesn't mean they're false for someone else, for that certain person, at that certain point in life. Everyone's different y'know.
*************
M*W: I now fully understand from whence god comes. There are no more delusions for me about religions. Atheism is the only truth. I spent years researching Christianity until I found that Jesus didn't die. Now I know the reason Jesus didn't die -- it's that he didn't even live. All religion is a lie.
M*W: It was with time, maturity, station in life, when I learned that Jesus was no dying demigod savior.
*************
Yorda: For some, he is a saviour.
*************
M*W: I believed in the Christian interpretation of god and Jesus, but I do agree with you that "false belief gives false hope," which 25% of the world's population falsly believes is the truth.
*************
Yorda: The real Christianity is a loveful religion, you've just not experienced that. Then there are those people who don't understand Christianity, and they just cause pain and confusion for themselves and others.
*************
M*W: I suspect our universe was created by some form of energy, and that's about as close as I could get to calling it a god.
*************
Yorda: That's what I also believe. The energies have created us. If you could see the truth behind religions, you could see that religions actually say that God is an energy, that he is the 'self'... at least, that's what I've seen. Religions tell us to forget our persons and become our true self ("god")
*************
M*W: Atheism is the only truth.
*************
Yorda: I don't "believe" in Atheism.
*************
M*W: I spent years researching Christianity until I found that Jesus didn't die.
*************
Yorda: Don't believe everything you read.
*************
M*W: All religion is a lie.
*************
Yorda: You remind me of religious fanatics. They always think they're right, that's why I can't stand them! For me, there's a lot of truth in religions, it's just hidden, behind symbolism and deceiving words.
Take no thought on who's right or wrong, or better than, be not for or against.
If you think you're always right... if you think you know everything, you restrict your growth... you'll learn nothing if you don't accept different views.
*************
Yorda: For some, he is a saviour.
*************
M*W: I believed in the Christian interpretation of god and Jesus, but I do agree with you that "false belief gives false hope," which 25% of the world's population falsly believes is the truth.
*************
Yorda: The real Christianity is a loveful religion, you've just not experienced that. Then there are those people who don't understand Christianity, and they just cause pain and confusion for themselves and others.
*************
M*W: I suspect our universe was created by some form of energy, and that's about as close as I could get to calling it a god.
*************
Yorda: That's what I also believe. The energies have created us. If you could see the truth behind religions, you could see that religions actually say that God is an energy, that he is the 'self'... at least, that's what I've seen. Religions tell us to forget our persons and become our true self ("god")
*************
M*W: Atheism is the only truth.
*************
Yorda: I don't "believe" in Atheism.
*************
M*W: I spent years researching Christianity until I found that Jesus didn't die.
*************
Yorda: Don't believe everything you read.
*************
M*W: All religion is a lie.
*************
Yorda: You remind me of religious fanatics. They always think they're right, that's why I can't stand them! For me, there's a lot of truth in religions, it's just hidden, behind symbolism and deceiving words.
Take no thought on who's right or wrong, or better than, be not for or against.
If you think you're always right... if you think you know everything, you restrict your growth... you'll learn nothing if you don't accept different views.
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Yorda: M*W: It was with time, maturity, station in life, when I learned that Jesus was no dying demigod savior.
*************
Yorda: For some, he is a saviour.
*************
M*W: For those who need to believing in the idea of salvation, sure. He's just as good as any of the world's previous 25 saviors.
*************
M*W: I believed in the Christian interpretation of god and Jesus, but I do agree with you that "false belief gives false hope," which 25% of the world's population falsly believes is the truth.
*************
Yorda: The real Christianity is a loveful religion, you've just not experienced that. Then there are those people who don't understand Christianity, and they just cause pain and confusion for themselves and others.
*************
M*W: How do you dare to say you know what I've experienced or not? When I was a Christian, it was a loving religion, but that's not the point. Why stay in a loving "religion" when it's all a lie?
*************
M*W: I suspect our universe was created by some form of energy, and that's about as close as I could get to calling it a god.
*************
Yorda: That's what I also believe. The energies have created us. If you could see the truth behind religions, you could see that religions actually say that God is an energy, that he is the 'self'... at least, that's what I've seen. Religions tell us to forget our persons and become our true self ("god")
*************
M*W: Religions teach us to deny ourselves and worship a non-existent god. If we cannot find god within, there is no god anywhere else.
*************
M*W: Atheism is the only truth.
*************
Yorda: I don't "believe" in Atheism.
*************
M*W: I didn't believe in it for most of my life either.
*************
M*W: I spent years researching Christianity until I found that Jesus didn't die.
*************
Yorda: Don't believe everything you read.
*************
M*W: When I was a Christian, I simply refused to read anything that didn't have the imprimataur as it was against my religion. It's when I defied my faith and saw their lies.
*************
M*W: All religion is a lie.
*************
Yorda: You remind me of religious fanatics. They always think they're right, that's why I can't stand them! For me, there's a lot of truth in religions, it's just hidden, behind symbolism and deceiving words.
Take no thought on who's right or wrong, or better than, be not for or against.
If you think you're always right... if you think you know everything, you restrict your growth... you'll learn nothing if you don't accept different views.
*************
M*W: When I was a Christian, I did not know the truth. I refused to learn the truth, and I was blissfully ignorant because of it. I was caught up in the addiction of religion. I was a fanatic then. I don't think I'm always right, but I know I'm not wrong about this subject. I've seen both sides of Christianity, and I know which one is the lie.
*************
Yorda: For some, he is a saviour.
*************
M*W: For those who need to believing in the idea of salvation, sure. He's just as good as any of the world's previous 25 saviors.
*************
M*W: I believed in the Christian interpretation of god and Jesus, but I do agree with you that "false belief gives false hope," which 25% of the world's population falsly believes is the truth.
*************
Yorda: The real Christianity is a loveful religion, you've just not experienced that. Then there are those people who don't understand Christianity, and they just cause pain and confusion for themselves and others.
*************
M*W: How do you dare to say you know what I've experienced or not? When I was a Christian, it was a loving religion, but that's not the point. Why stay in a loving "religion" when it's all a lie?
*************
M*W: I suspect our universe was created by some form of energy, and that's about as close as I could get to calling it a god.
*************
Yorda: That's what I also believe. The energies have created us. If you could see the truth behind religions, you could see that religions actually say that God is an energy, that he is the 'self'... at least, that's what I've seen. Religions tell us to forget our persons and become our true self ("god")
*************
M*W: Religions teach us to deny ourselves and worship a non-existent god. If we cannot find god within, there is no god anywhere else.
*************
M*W: Atheism is the only truth.
*************
Yorda: I don't "believe" in Atheism.
*************
M*W: I didn't believe in it for most of my life either.
*************
M*W: I spent years researching Christianity until I found that Jesus didn't die.
*************
Yorda: Don't believe everything you read.
*************
M*W: When I was a Christian, I simply refused to read anything that didn't have the imprimataur as it was against my religion. It's when I defied my faith and saw their lies.
*************
M*W: All religion is a lie.
*************
Yorda: You remind me of religious fanatics. They always think they're right, that's why I can't stand them! For me, there's a lot of truth in religions, it's just hidden, behind symbolism and deceiving words.
Take no thought on who's right or wrong, or better than, be not for or against.
If you think you're always right... if you think you know everything, you restrict your growth... you'll learn nothing if you don't accept different views.
*************
M*W: When I was a Christian, I did not know the truth. I refused to learn the truth, and I was blissfully ignorant because of it. I was caught up in the addiction of religion. I was a fanatic then. I don't think I'm always right, but I know I'm not wrong about this subject. I've seen both sides of Christianity, and I know which one is the lie.
M*W: Why stay in a loving "religion" when it's all a lie?
*************
Yorda: Lies are not loveful (usually) And of course, if you think it's a lie, you can't believe in it, nor should you follow it.
*************
M*W: Religions teach us to deny ourselves and worship a non-existent god. If we cannot find god within, there is no god anywhere else.
*************
Yorda: Actually, the God idea means our higher self. As I've seen it, religions teach that God is within. I mean... of course he is within us! Isn't he omnipresent or what? Have you not heard that you are the temples of God? Did you ever read the Bible or thought about it?
I saw that quite instantly. For example, when Christians ask forgiveness of Christ, they simply try to forgive themselves. They are unconsciously forgiven by their higher self, which is called Christ in that religion.
Jesus says in the Gospel of Luke: The kingdom of God (the goal) is within you. Hinduism and Buddhism teach the idea of "God within you" much better though. They give us a large understanding of the nature of the 'self', and teaches us how to follow our higher self consciously.
Man is still very egoistic, so I don't see anything bad about believing in a "God". Later people can also understand that the God is really the "self". In the Western world, people weren't ready to understand the the teachings of the "self", so the great teachers told about it in parables and stories about God. The truth still exists within the stories.
*************
M*W: I didn't believe in it (atheism) for most of my life either.
*************
Yorda: First I didn't believe or disbelieve. I was a child. Then I saw that the idea of God was very ridiculous and irrational. I was conscious of the outer world. Then I saw that there really is truth behind religions and the idea of 'God'. I was conscious of my inner world. Then again, "I" neither believed or disbelieved. "I" consciously chose to become like an unconscious child again (paradise, nirvana, self-knowledge, nothingness)
Jesus tells us to forget our person and follow our higher/true self (which he usually calls Father or God): if you want to be my diciple you have to forget yourself, take your cross everyday and follow me (the higher self).
*************
M*W: When I was a Christian, I simply refused to read anything that didn't have the imprimataur as it was against my religion. It's when I defied my faith and saw their lies.
*************
Yorda: The right way is the way you choose by yourself. That's also what "God" wants. I don't have to limit myself to religious or non-religious views.
*************
Yorda: Lies are not loveful (usually) And of course, if you think it's a lie, you can't believe in it, nor should you follow it.
*************
M*W: Religions teach us to deny ourselves and worship a non-existent god. If we cannot find god within, there is no god anywhere else.
*************
Yorda: Actually, the God idea means our higher self. As I've seen it, religions teach that God is within. I mean... of course he is within us! Isn't he omnipresent or what? Have you not heard that you are the temples of God? Did you ever read the Bible or thought about it?
I saw that quite instantly. For example, when Christians ask forgiveness of Christ, they simply try to forgive themselves. They are unconsciously forgiven by their higher self, which is called Christ in that religion.
Jesus says in the Gospel of Luke: The kingdom of God (the goal) is within you. Hinduism and Buddhism teach the idea of "God within you" much better though. They give us a large understanding of the nature of the 'self', and teaches us how to follow our higher self consciously.
Man is still very egoistic, so I don't see anything bad about believing in a "God". Later people can also understand that the God is really the "self". In the Western world, people weren't ready to understand the the teachings of the "self", so the great teachers told about it in parables and stories about God. The truth still exists within the stories.
*************
M*W: I didn't believe in it (atheism) for most of my life either.
*************
Yorda: First I didn't believe or disbelieve. I was a child. Then I saw that the idea of God was very ridiculous and irrational. I was conscious of the outer world. Then I saw that there really is truth behind religions and the idea of 'God'. I was conscious of my inner world. Then again, "I" neither believed or disbelieved. "I" consciously chose to become like an unconscious child again (paradise, nirvana, self-knowledge, nothingness)
Jesus tells us to forget our person and follow our higher/true self (which he usually calls Father or God): if you want to be my diciple you have to forget yourself, take your cross everyday and follow me (the higher self).
*************
M*W: When I was a Christian, I simply refused to read anything that didn't have the imprimataur as it was against my religion. It's when I defied my faith and saw their lies.
*************
Yorda: The right way is the way you choose by yourself. That's also what "God" wants. I don't have to limit myself to religious or non-religious views.
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So which one is the lie?Medicine Woman said:M*W: When I was a Christian, I did not know the truth. I refused to learn the truth, and I was blissfully ignorant because of it. I was caught up in the addiction of religion. I was a fanatic then. I don't think I'm always right, but I know I'm not wrong about this subject. I've seen both sides of Christianity, and I know which one is the lie.
Horseman42
Registered Senior Member
I do not believe in god.
The reason for this belief is that there is no evidence for such a thing. God may exist but I have never encountered any proof of god's existance that wasn't illogical, irrational, or unreasonable. Take for example the "proof" provided by enton...
The reason for this belief is that there is no evidence for such a thing. God may exist but I have never encountered any proof of god's existance that wasn't illogical, irrational, or unreasonable. Take for example the "proof" provided by enton...
This is not proof of anything only naked assertions. How do you know happiness was born from sadness? Where is the proof of that? The whole paragraph is sloppy, misguided logic right from the very beginning.For me, I stand that there is God, a Supreme Being, who is responsible for the existence of existence. Why? This is the proof. Happiness was born before sadness. Because God is delighted in the presence of His Son, He created human beings for the delight of His Son. But disobedience arose in the heavenly host, Lucifer exalted himself. This Lucifer, an angel, became the Satan (the adversary of all truths). Now, if you question why God made this all, sorry, I have no authority to answer you. Or you may rephrase the question: why are we all here on earth, and for what purpose?