Is there God or none?

E

enton

www.truthcaster.com
Registered Senior Member
With this thread I hope you will all consider all possible and impossible expressed and implicit thoughts and opinions, subjective or objective. Prove to yourselves whether there is God or none at all. If you are doubtful, show your doubt, If you try to deceive others, show your deceit. If you are conceited with your self-belief, go on and show what you have had.

For me, I stand that there is God, a Supreme Being, who is responsible for the existence of existence. Why? This is the proof. Happiness was born before sadness. Because God is delighted in the presence of His Son, He created human beings for the delight of His Son. But disobedience arose in the heavenly host, Lucifer exalted himself. This Lucifer, an angel, became the Satan (the adversary of all truths). Now, if you question why God made this all, sorry, I have no authority to answer you. Or you may rephrase the question: why are we all here on earth, and for what purpose?
 
Enton said:

Prove to yourselves whether there is God or none at all.
Click to expand...

It's a futile endeavor for me because either outcome equals the same thing.
 
hehe..LOVE your dramatic intro....

I understand your symbols, of 'God' and 'Lucifer' and 'Son'....but i listen to a deeper song which verymuch includes Goddess and her son/lover

my mythology includes hallucinogenic sacraments that you eat or drink or both, and dance, sing and beCOME god....ie., you aren't just listening to symbooic words or looking at stained glass windows etc. YOU are feeling ecstasy, and emotions and are in direct contact with how you feeling, and your relationship with Nature. because you aren't 'In' Nature--as in some 'spirit from above' that's trapped here--you ARe Nature. and Nature is wonder-full and home and deserves the DEEPESt respect.
not some words and pictures in some so-called sacred book that trashes women, and other peoples and sex, and ...on and on and on. that is phony. see through it. dont take it at face value

Before the upstart patriarchl 'he-God' who is aloof and transcendent, we have the Goddess who is both transcendent ANd immanent. so there is no division between Nature and spirit. So Nature doesn't get slagged off, and trashed when you realize this.
 
enton, there is no evidence to support the existence of 'God', the Easter
Bunny, Santa Claus, Pink Unicorns, Phraints, Deodanths, and the monster
in your closet.
 
"For me, I stand that there is God, a Supreme Being, who is responsible for the existence of existence." Im sorry to hear that. "why are we all here on earth, and for what purpose?" Why do we need a purpose to exist? "Happiness was born before sadness" Define each of those for me and give me the date in which they were concieved, id like text documentation from a reliable source. "Because God is delighted in the presence of His Son, He created human beings for the delight of His Son" Explain to me how you know this? "But disobedience arose in the heavenly host, Lucifer exalted himself. This Lucifer, an angel, became the Satan (the adversary of all truths)." Can you prove this too?
 
There is Lucifer, even your science proved physically that visible morning star, Lucifer (Venus). But I am referring about the biblical history. If you`ll read Isaiah 14:12-15 and Proverbs 8:22-31, you`ll be able to notice.
 
Taking the bible as gospel is the first problem. If I want to believe words I'll believe in ones that don't exist.

Why? This is the proof. Happiness was born before sadness. Because God is delighted in the presence of His Son, He created human beings for the delight of His Son. But disobedience arose in the heavenly host, Lucifer exalted himself. This Lucifer, an angel, became the Satan (the adversary of all truths). Now, if you question why God made this all, sorry, I have no authority to answer you. Or you may rephrase the question: why are we all here on earth, and for what purpose?
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That is no proof. That is the problem.

As to what I believe, there could be a god, there could just as easily not be a god. If there is a god(s), it is not represented by any religion that exists on this tiny little planet. I don't believe we have inherent purpose, perhaps other than the biological mechanism which drives us to procreate. I am here on earth because my Mum and my Dad decided they'd like another child. And I don't believe in souls (this is a whole other topic though- along the lines of 'We are not more than the sum of our parts').

As to talking about proof, I don't feel I need to give any for my reasoning, I came about my beliefs through a complete lack of religion. So in essence I am what you might call a control in a science experiment.

However, to take a pot shot at the 'science' of intelligent design. For the past 300 million years the male (Y) and female (X) chromosomes have been battling it out for supremacy. The Y chromosome has been comprehensively beaten, males are in decline, women could be called dual core processors while males could be described as technology in the stages of being phased out.

Where my friends, is the intelligent design in that? If you are going to create a species, are you going to create one that will, through natural competition, be the architect of its own demise? This is one new aspect through which I will never believe in a religion of this earth. There are plenty more.

staples disconnected
 
enton: There is Lucifer, even your science proved physically that visible morning star, Lucifer (Venus). But I am referring about the biblical history. If you`ll read Isaiah 14:12-15 and Proverbs 8:22-31, you`ll be able to notice.
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M*W: But... Jesus also calls himself the "Morningstar." Although the Planet Venus has been dubbed the "Morningstar," in those days the people thought Venus was a star, and they believed Venus to be opposing the sun. For centuries in many religions in the region, the ancients believed the Sun to be God. In Jesus's time, he was called the "Son of God," meaning nothing more than the "sun." Lucifer means "light bearer." How could this simple contradiction offer such opposite meanings? The scripture in Isaiah and Proverbs have nothing to do with Jesus.
 
staples disconnected: Taking the bible as gospel is the first problem. If I want to believe words I'll believe in ones that don't exist.
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M*W: Good idea.
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staples disconnected: However, to take a pot shot at the 'science' of intelligent design. For the past 300 million years the male (Y) and female (X) chromosomes have been battling it out for supremacy. The Y chromosome has been comprehensively beaten, males are in decline, women could be called dual core processors while males could be described as technology in the stages of being phased out.
*************
M*W: Am I detecting some misogyny here? All embryos begin as females having the X chromosome. Females are sexually 'complete' in that they don't mutate into males. The father's Y chromosome triggers mutation from the female embryo changing it from female to male. This happens at about the 10th week of gestation.

However, you state that "males are in decline." I tend to think that our chromosomes can be altered by the food we eat which is laden with all kinds of hormones and toxins. The female embryo is also influenced by the mother's hormones surging in utero. Sometimes babies are born with male genitalia and their chromosomes prove them to be females and vice versa. It's not an exact science anymore. Parents wonder why their sons and daughters turn out being gay when surely they raised them as one or the other gender. I blame it on the hormones in our dairy supply and our beef cattle. All this is based on greed, and in the USA, it's SOP by the USDA.
*************
staples disconnected: Where my friends, is the intelligent design in that? If you are going to create a species, are you going to create one that will, through natural competition, be the architect of its own demise? This is one new aspect through which I will never believe in a religion of this earth. There are plenty more.
*************
M*W: Don't be too quick to see this is something detrimental in our world. It's not. In fact, we are evolving quite in the right direction, not the opposite. Whoever said that "male" and "female" should be separate genders? (Oh, yes, I forgot, the Christians!). Jesus taught in the Gnostic Gospels that the only way to attain heaven was to become "fully human." What Jesus meant by that was that in order to be "fully human" one should become androgynous. What you interpret as the "male in decline," is nothing more than we are evolving toward the more perfect androgynous human being. Just because a man doesn't have a big hairy chest, hunt for his food, BBQ it on his grill, and promise his woman to build her some shelves, doesn't mean he's not all-man. Females are becoming more masculine, and males are becoming more feminine. Their sexual preferences are not even related to one's physical characteristics. So the males you think may be in decline are probably more androgynous than the he-men you know. It's not just the X or the Y chromosome anymore, just as females cannot be blamed for evolutionary changes leading to the demise of males. It is, in fact, intelligent design, but I don't believe or disbelieve ID. I perceive it in a totally spiritual way. I'm afraid there is nothing we can do about it anyway, so we MUST accept those who are the more truly evolved human beings.
 
enton said:
For me, I stand that there is God, a Supreme Being, who is responsible for the existence of existence.
Click to expand...
and who created god?
if god doesnt need a creator why couldnt you accept that universe may not need one either,in fact it could have always existed,
in some form or shape,b/c matter,energy cannot be created or destroyed only changed so it seem only logical that Universe is eternal.
no need for god.
Why? This is the proof. Happiness was born before sadness. Because God is delighted in the presence of His Son, He created human beings for the delight of His Son. But disobedience arose in the heavenly host, Lucifer exalted himself. This Lucifer, an angel, became the Satan (the adversary of all truths). Now, if you question why God made this all, sorry, I have no authority to answer you. Or you may rephrase the question: why are we all here on earth, and for what purpose?
Click to expand...
or maybe everything was farted into existence by a Giant turtle,
one story is just as good as another,you know
now can you prove it wrong?
 
Hey M*W,

Am I detecting some misogyny here?
Click to expand...

lol, definately not. This is a very recent study into the Y and X chromosomes and the development of the genes over a long period of time. Male chromosomes are a shadow of what they used to be and are inferior to the X chromosome. When I say males are in decline however, I mean in the next 50 million years will we be seeing some declining done. This wont affect me, or you. I was only demonstrating the fact that this goes against ID and a supreme creator. What all knowing being would create such a flawed system?

M*W: Don't be too quick to see this is something detrimental in our world. It's not. In fact, we are evolving quite in the right direction, not the opposite. Whoever said that "male" and "female" should be separate genders? (Oh, yes, I forgot, the Christians!). Jesus taught in the Gnostic Gospels that the only way to attain heaven was to become "fully human." What Jesus meant by that was that in order to be "fully human" one should become androgynous. What you interpret as the "male in decline," is nothing more than we are evolving toward the more perfect androgynous human being. Just because a man doesn't have a big hairy chest, hunt for his food, BBQ it on his grill, and promise his woman to build her some shelves, doesn't mean he's not all-man. Females are becoming more masculine, and males are becoming more feminine. Their sexual preferences are not even related to one's physical characteristics. So the males you think may be in decline are probably more androgynous than the he-men you know. It's not just the X or the Y chromosome anymore, just as females cannot be blamed for evolutionary changes leading to the demise of males. It is, in fact, intelligent design, but I don't believe or disbelieve ID. I perceive it in a totally spiritual way. I'm afraid there is nothing we can do about it anyway, so we MUST accept those who are the more truly evolved human beings.
Click to expand...

Perhaps, but biologically, males and females need to exist to procreate. The Y chromosome will cease to exist at some point in time or become so ineffective that further procreation will be impossible. Unless we have learnt by that time how to do without males, and have not already destroyed ourselves, then the human race will cease to exist. Gloomy perhaps, but this is so far in the future that it doesn't affect me.

staples
 
staples disconnected: Hey M*W, lol, definately not. This is a very recent study into the Y and X chromosomes and the development of the genes over a long period of time. Male chromosomes are a shadow of what they used to be and are inferior to the X chromosome. When I say males are in decline however, I mean in the next 50 million years will we be seeing some declining done. This wont affect me, or you. I was only demonstrating the fact that this goes against ID and a supreme creator. What all knowing being would create such a flawed system?
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M*W: Okay, I understand that. The 'system' isn't flawed. We were destined to become androgynous.
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staples: Perhaps, but biologically, males and females need to exist to procreate. The Y chromosome will cease to exist at some point in time or become so ineffective that further procreation will be impossible. Unless we have learnt by that time how to do without males, and have not already destroyed ourselves, then the human race will cease to exist. Gloomy perhaps, but this is so far in the future that it doesn't affect me.
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M*W: No, it's not as gloomy as you may think. Whether the X chromosome needs the Y chromosome to become male or not is not the issue. It's the blending of the X and Y chromosome that brings the human race to perfection.

staples[/QUOTE]
 
Humans will not become androgynous except mentally. Whether the body is male, female or androgynous is not important. The laws of nature doesn't allow fully androgynous form anyway, that's impossible, even unimaginable. The physical world is based on dualism, and it stays that way. When we're born as male and female through many lives, we learn to understand our true, divine, nature. The most noticeable difference in future humans will be the blending of all human races and the brain. We will have the same kind of elongated skulls as the ancient humans had, from which this human race comes from.
 
Hey M*W

M*W: Okay, I understand that. The 'system' isn't flawed. We were destined to become androgynous.
Click to expand...

I don't believe we will become androgynous, but I can accept that you believe that.

M*W: No, it's not as gloomy as you may think. Whether the X chromosome needs the Y chromosome to become male or not is not the issue. It's the blending of the X and Y chromosome that brings the human race to perfection.
Click to expand...

Ah, but the chromosomes aren't blending, the X chromosome is out competing the Y chromosome. The Y chromosome defines males and the lack of the Y chromosome defines females- the language is kind of inadequate as females don't lack anything, but my point is, males and females are different. We think differently. The way our skin is attached to our bodies is different. We are affected by different hormones. Those things define who we are, and they are inherent in us. We haven't changed, society has.

Yo Yorda,

Males and females will not become mentally androgynous, only socially. And do you not believe in evolution from ape-like ancestors?

staples
 
staples disconnected: Hey M*W, I don't believe we will become androgynous, but I can accept that you believe that.

Ah, but the chromosomes aren't blending, the X chromosome is out competing the Y chromosome. The Y chromosome defines males and the lack of the Y chromosome defines females- the language is kind of inadequate as females don't lack anything, but my point is, males and females are different. We think differently. The way our skin is attached to our bodies is different. We are affected by different hormones. Those things define who we are, and they are inherent in us. We haven't changed, society has.
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M*W: True, males and females are different, and you're right, X&Y are not blending, X is the stronger chromosome. It doesn't surprise me that Y chromosomes are fading from creation, but their departure opens the door for civilization to think more alike. There will be fewer wars and rumors of wars, for example.

The human race will evolve toward a perfect blending of the races, ethnicities, colors, and genders. Then we will be God.
 
Those verses which I mentioned are very relevant when you compare the true morning star and the false morning star. I am not talking about Jesus since Jesus is a proper name given to the flesh which Mary had borne through God`s act. I am referring to the Spirit Christ (the wisdom in Proverbs 8) and the Lucifer who became satan by his ungodly acts clarified in Isaiah.

Who created God? Well, God is God. If you believe the Creator to be the God, creation is only valid to his creatures whom or by which He created. Even Christ cannot be created since He was with God, if you believe the Bible, since in John 1:1, it is clearly read "In the beginning was the Word and the Word was with God and the Word was God." He is a Co-Creator(Co-Maker) as stated in Genesis (Let us make man in our image..). Even many dis-acknowledged and will dis-acknowledge God, from everlasting to everlasting God is God, an Almighty who cannot lie, full of mercy -a God who wants all people to be saved from sin and from His wrath.

"A fool said in His heart 'There is no God.'"
 
scorpius said:
and who created god?
if god doesnt need a creator why couldnt you accept that universe may not need one either,in fact it could have always existed,
in some form or shape,b/c matter,energy cannot be created or destroyed only changed so it seem only logical that Universe is eternal.
no need for god.

or maybe everything was farted into existence by a Giant turtle,
one story is just as good as another,you know
now can you prove it wrong?
Click to expand...
Which universe are your referring at? You may not be looking at the pluriverses inside the vast universe you are thinking. Physical stars are dying, in fact, your discoverer found out that a black hole is eating these broken stars.

So which comes first as for your thought, eternity or universe? If you choose eternity, is there other present dimensions before eternity? If you choose universe, which universe, inside, outside or median universe?

Ecclesiastes 11:5 As you do not know the path of the wind, or how the body is formed in a mother`s womb, so you cannot understand the work of God, the Maker of all things. New International Version
 
I believe God exists.

I believe God is not a Skydaddy.
I believe God exists but He is not what is often ascribed to Him. I believe God is not malevolent and whimsical.


As for "proof": It simply makes no sense to me to believe that God is malevolent and whimsical. Those are the self-victimizing fearsome fantasies of some unhappy people. Talk to them, and you'll find their inconsistencies giving them away.

Further, when the proof of God's existence is demanded, what is actually demanded is the proof that God has the attributes ascribed to Him by the Bible. Whether one acknowledges that God has these attributes depends a lot, if not completely, on this person and their general outlook on life.

To compare: A loves B. But if B doesn't love A, A's love won't mean much to B. It is possible that B won't even notice it. Does this make A's love non-existent? No. It just makes the love-relationship non-existent.
 
enton said:
in John 1:1, it is clearly read "In the beginning was the Word and the Word was with God and the Word was God." He is a Co-Creator(Co-Maker) as stated in Genesis (Let us make man in our image..).
Click to expand...
something you might like to contemplate enton, the greek word for 'the word' was logos, (logoi, logous, etc) logos doesnt just mean 'the word' it could also mean 'thought' 'conscious' 'cognition' 'reason' or 'motive' amongst other meanings

so retranslating 'the word' in that passage of scripture brings forth some interesting idea's.

"In the beginning was the thought and the thought was with God and the thought was God."

"In the beginning was consciousness and consciousness was with God and consciousness was God."
 
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