Is there a simple way to detect gravitational waves?

let's see, photon has no mass no charge, yet it carries em fields and energy?

electrons can relax? can emit photons? red and blue photons? is red photon vibrating 4 x 10^14 times per second? or is red photon passing a point 4 x 10^14 times per second?

exited atoms do vibrate and produce gravitation waves, it is fact. is gravitation radiation propagating at c speed? is it has frequency? is its energy inversely proportional to r^2?

your call, open your mind.
 
Tiassa, you might consider treating this thread the same way. Locked and in the cesspool.
 
Mod Hat ― Closure and Redirect

I'm getting sick of this.
 
jcc:

jcc said:
hot gasses on the sun are vibrating and producing gravitation waves, where that energy go? can we detect it?
Click to expand...
We can't detect the gravitational waves from the sun. Not yet, anyway.

Most of the energy in the hot gases in the sun goes nowhere. It stays right there in the sun. Some energy escapes from the surface of the sun as light, which carries some energy away. We detect it as light and other forms of electromagnetic radiation on Earth. The Sun also emits lots of charged particles.

If sunlight is hot gasses emitted photons, what's the mechanism? electrons charge orbitals and emit photons?
Click to expand...
That's part of it. A lot of the sun is a plasma, though.

how many orbitals in an gas atom? why sunlight spectrum is continue?
Click to expand...
There's constant absorption and emission happening in the sun, so you end up with radiation in thermal equilibrium with the matter. This leads to a blackbody spectrum.

jcc said:
what's the mechanism?

how electron changes orbital?

how photon is produced?

how many photons can an electron emit per second?

what's difference between red and blue photon?

photon has no mass no charge, how it carries energy?
Click to expand...
I'm not sure what "mechanism" you want.

Electrons change orbital when they gain or lose energy. The electromagnetic interaction creates or destroys photons in the process.

A red and a blue photon have different frequencies.

Mass and charge are not required for something to carry energy.

jcc said:
light has no mass, what momentum?
Click to expand...
Photons have momentum $$p=E/c$$, where $$E$$ is the photon's energy.

what is energy level?
Click to expand...
It's a discrete value that the energy of a particle or other object can have.
 
If gravity has a physical wave to it , then objects should simply ride the wave .

Hence :

Strong attraction and weak attraction at equal intervals
 
river said:
If gravity has a physical wave to it , then objects should simply ride the wave .

Hence :

Strong attraction and weak attraction at equal intervals
Click to expand...
One way to produce gravity waves is by large masses orbiting other large masses (typically very slowly). These are waves of time dilation, which is one reason you are not likely to detect them using either an interferometer or with multi-ton Weber bars and attached piezoelectric sensors. The first method is nothing more than an updated Michaelson-Morely experiment, which will always have a null result for gravitational waves. The second idea operates on the same principle as the Earth-moon tides, but since the dimensions of bars are not referenced to anything that measures time not also under the influence of the same gravity waves, it will never detect anything. The Earth-moon tides work as a gravity wave detector as a sort of water clock. Water closer to the moon side of the Earth undergoes a different time dilation /acceleration than the water on the far side.

What is needed to detect gravitational waves like the ones due to planets orbiting the Sun in our solar system, is to measure time dilation effects in as many different directions as possible using a clock that is based on quantum entanglement and their rates referenced to another such entanglement clock located at a great distance from the gravitational influences you are trying to measure.
 
Last edited:
Why the hell y'all feed this troll instead of using the ban hammer, I just don't get.

He has been banned from here more than once, yet you succumb to his anti-education fucking bullshit for page after page of hand-holding, as if you can't really believe someone could be so abysmally stupid and still goad further responses from (Your name here)?

What motivation could there be to allow this dumbass hatful of hammers to keep shitting on this forum?

Fucking ban me.
 
Dr_Toad said:
Why the hell y'all feed this troll instead of using the ban hammer, I just don't get.

He has been banned from here more than once, yet you succumb to his anti-education fucking bullshit for page after page of hand-holding, as if you can't really believe someone could be so abysmally stupid and still goad further responses from (Your name here)?

What motivation could there be to allow this dumbass hatful of hammers to keep shitting on this forum?

Fucking ban me.
Click to expand...
It is true that his previous posts were lackluster, Dr Toad, but since this particular subject is one in which a lot of mainstream physics money was and is being spent, so far with nothing but null results, I, for one would be willing to give jcc the benefit of the doubt. Better and more productive to allow discussion that might bring in some better ideas than to hone dozens more LIFO mirrors and beam splitters to finer than 1 atom planar tolerances, and all of the wasted expense that process will entail.

I don't know or care whom LIFO employed for their design, but even Joe Weber, a naval engineer turned physicist, was not as wrong. Dr Weber was no crackpot. Not particularly original in his designs, but he did the best he could. When I attended U of M in the '70s, he had a pretty good cult going, and more than one big project there failed. The electron ring accelerator failed because it ran out of money to redesign its focusing magnets. Some of that team went on to much greater success in physics. Failure sometimes just means you dreamt big, and ran out of money.
 
Last edited:
danshawen said:
One way to produce gravity waves is by large masses orbiting other large masses (typically very slowly). These are waves of time dilation, which is one reason you are not likely to detect them using either an interferometer or with multi-ton Weber bars and attached piezoelectric sensors.
Click to expand...
Which theory of gravity are you referring to? It's not GR, for which the only allowed GW's have purely spatial component distortions. Time only enters as propagation parameter e.g. cos(ωt - kx).
The first method is nothing more than an updated Michaelson-Morely experiment, which will always have a null result for gravitational waves.
Click to expand...
Maybe - but not because they won't detect g_tt time distortions.
The second idea operates on the same principle as the Earth-moon tides, but since the dimensions of bars are not referenced to anything that measures time not also under the influence of the same gravity waves, it will never detect anything.
Click to expand...
Same comments as per above.
The Earth-moon tides work as a gravity wave detector as a sort of water clock. Water closer to the moon side of the Earth undergoes a different time dilation /acceleration than the water on the far side.
Click to expand...
You are confusing near-field tidal variations with vastly weaker hoped-for GW's. Chalk and cheese.
What is needed to detect gravitational waves like the ones due to planets orbiting the Sun in our solar system, is to measure time dilation effects in as many different directions as possible using a clock that is based on quantum entanglement and their rates referenced to another such entanglement clock located at a great distance from the gravitational influences you are trying to measure.
Click to expand...
See above comments.
 
Q-reeus said:
Which theory of gravity are you referring to? It's not GR, for which the only allowed GW's have purely spatial component distortions. Time only enters as propagation parameter e.g. cos(ωt - kx).
.
Click to expand...

Oh, yeah. Another case of the Minkowski version of Euclidean/Pythagorean/ hyperbolic rotation / time tacked on as an extra physical dimension / afterthought kind of relativistic reasoning that makes GR only an approximation (although in cases like bulk celestial mechanics with only a few bodies in motion, and a dominant mass, it's the best we've got). Well, that just explains a lot. You win honors and accolades for being forthright enough to provide any detail on this flawed idea.

The underlying principle of operation was evidently treated as something of a closely guarded classified U.S. Navy top secret or something in the 1970s. An easy expedient for hiding bad engineering, don't you think? Like Teller's flawed H-bomb design that would never have worked.

LIFO no doubt plays a similar game with what should be classified as basic science research.
 
Last edited:
danshawen said:
Oh, yeah. Another case of the Minkowski version of Euclidean/Pythagorean/ hyperbolic rotation / time tacked on as an extra physical dimension / afterthought kind of relativistic reasoning that makes GR only an approximation (although in most cases, like bulk celestial mechanics with only a few bodies in motion, and a dominant mass, it's the best we've got). Well, that just explains a lot. You win honors and accolades for being forthright enough to provide any detail on this flawed idea.
Click to expand...
Umm....I think that last bit was not a back-handed compliment. Anyway, if it helps, I actually have some sympathy for the idea that any possible GW should involve temporal distortion. Here's cut & paste from another site where GW detection came up:
'Another poster':
Since gravity in GR is a result of the distortion of the space-time fabric of the universe and any experimental equipment is embedded in that same fabric why is is it not recognized that gravitational waves may distort the experimental equipment such that detection is impossible? As an analogy, I think of taking a piece of rubber sheet (a "pseudo-2-D universe") and making two marks "exactly" one meter apart. If one stretches the rubber the marks, which define a meter, move apart. Only a meter stick OUTSIDE of that pseudo-universe could detect the stretching.
Click to expand...
Postby Q-reeus » Sun Apr 19, 2015 2:56 am
Quite a while back I made the same argument. There is a standard counterargument e.g.: https://www.aapt.org/doorway/tgrutalks/Saulson/SaulsonTalk-Teaching gravitational waves.pdf
[following link now seems dead: http://gw.aei.mpg.de/images/Saulson_1997AmJPhys_65_501.pdf]
Along the lines that while space stretches and squeezes (rigid ruler frame), the temporal component is unaffected. Which leads to light but not rigid matter stretching and squeezing.
More technical articles:
http://arxiv.org/abs/0910.4372v1
http://arxiv.org/abs/1103.4783
but note the many following 'Searching for' articles that author made or contributed to: http://arxiv.org/find/gr-qc/1/au:+Cornish_N/0/1/0/all/0/1
The notion of a GW distorting space but not time is imo badly mistaken. Sorry but won't go into details. Meanwhile, the long wait for detection gets ever longer.
Click to expand...
 
Dr_Toad said:
Why the hell y'all feed this troll instead of using the ban hammer, I just don't get.

He has been banned from here more than once, yet you succumb to his anti-education fucking bullshit for page after page of hand-holding, as if you can't really believe someone could be so abysmally stupid and still goad further responses from (Your name here)?

What motivation could there be to allow this dumbass hatful of hammers to keep shitting on this forum?

Fucking ban me.
Click to expand...

I agree about jcc and have reported him, hoping he will eventually get banned. I expect he is accumulating the points necessary for that to happen. Meanwhile I avoid his obvious wind-ups.
 
James R said:
There might be a small transfer of energy due to infra-red radiation, and there might be a small transfer of energy due to gravitational radiation. However, the gravitational effect would be unmeasurable and completely swamped by the transfer by IR radiation. The masses of the two bells are way too small to detect any effect of gravitational waves.
Click to expand...

are you sure? science has to be sure.

if heat and light from the sun are gravitation waves produces by hot gasses, aren't we feel/see it all the time? why you say gravitation waves is not detectable?
 
jcc said:
can we detect that heat and light from the sun?
Click to expand...
I certainly can.
heat and light as you said, as i suggested, are produced by exited/vibrating hot gasses/atoms on the sun?
Click to expand...
Actually the heat and light is from nuclear fusion and by the time the emitted gamma rays reach the surface their energy has been lowered to mostly UV, IR and the visible spectrum.
 
origin said:
Yes we are sure.

They aren't so we don't.

They may be detectable but we have not detected them yet.
Click to expand...

are the atoms of the hot gasses on the sun vibrating?

are they produce gravitation waves?

is the energy of the gravitation wave proportional to its frequency?

where that energy goes/becomes?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top