Is Joseph the father of Jesus ?
- Thread starter Saint
- Start date
As you know the Father revealed the Son but without
there being a God then what is there to show?
There is more to what covers nothingness to
nothingness. Yet you believe in nothingness
and that out of nothingness came something.
Main Entry: rev·e·la·tion
Pronunciation: "re-v&-'lA-sh&n
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle English, from Middle French, from Late Latin revelation-, revelatio, from Latin revelare to reveal
Date: 14th century
1 a : an act of revealing or communicating divine truth b : something that is revealed by God to humans
2 a : an act of revealing to view or making known b : something that is revealed; especially : an enlightening or astonishing disclosure <shocking revelations> c : a pleasant often enlightening surprise <her talent was a revelation>
YHWH (
Tetragrammaton - four Hebrew letters (usually transliterated as YHWH (Yahweh)
or JHVH (Jehovah)) signifying the Hebrew name for God (which the Jews regarded
as too holy to pronounce)
ConsequentAtheist
Registered Senior Member
That's what God told Moses right?
What I think I've found is
that YHWH is undefined in english
but means sort of something like "I AM" or "eternally existant"
The site that I you says that YHWH means I AM HE WHO IS", "I AM WHO AM" or "I AM WHO I AM"
Nevertheless I would be suprised to find that God has
two names with completely different meanings.
What I think I've found is
that YHWH is undefined in english
but means sort of something like "I AM" or "eternally existant"
The site that I you says that YHWH means I AM HE WHO IS", "I AM WHO AM" or "I AM WHO I AM"
Nevertheless I would be suprised to find that God has
two names with completely different meanings.
"That's what God told Moses right?"
Right.
"Moses said to God, “When I come to the Israelites and say to them, ‘The God of your fathers has sent me to you,’ and they ask me, ‘What is his name?’ what shall I say to them?” And God said to Moses, Ehyeh-Asher-Ehyeh. He continued, "Thus shall you say to the Israelites, 'Ehyeh sent me to you'"
-Exodus 3:13-14 (JPS Hebrew- English Tanakh)
Footnote:
Ehyeh-Asher-Ehyeh - Meaning of Heb. uncertain; variously translated:
"I Am That I Am"; "I Am who I Am"; "I Will Be What I Will Be"; etc.
Ehyeh - Others "I Am" or "I Will Be."
Right.
"Moses said to God, “When I come to the Israelites and say to them, ‘The God of your fathers has sent me to you,’ and they ask me, ‘What is his name?’ what shall I say to them?” And God said to Moses, Ehyeh-Asher-Ehyeh. He continued, "Thus shall you say to the Israelites, 'Ehyeh sent me to you'"
-Exodus 3:13-14 (JPS Hebrew- English Tanakh)
Footnote:
Ehyeh-Asher-Ehyeh - Meaning of Heb. uncertain; variously translated:
"I Am That I Am"; "I Am who I Am"; "I Will Be What I Will Be"; etc.
Ehyeh - Others "I Am" or "I Will Be."
Jesus' father
This is a very interesting forum. I believe the truth about Christianity will be revealed in our lifetime. There is just too much material already uncovered that will prove Christianity to be false. Joseph and Miriam were 'betrothed,' so, technically, they could legally within their Jewish laws, have sex and even procreate. Time will prove that Christianity is a false religion. Joseph and Mary had sex many times, and had many children. Jesus, himself, and Mary Magdalene were married with children. Jesus was a Rabbi, a teacher, and Rabbis HAD TO BE MARRIED! That was Jewish law! The first French kings were descendants of that union. (See the Web site on Rennes-le-Chateau, France). What does it matter? Nada
The question is: What will all these 'Christians' do when the world finds out that Christianity is a farce and there is no need for salvation anyway? The very fact that we are alive and kicking and allowed to be here on Planet Earth is proof enough for me to know that there is a Creator. We weren't lost in the first place to require salvation from some obscure teacher from Middle East who most likely didn't die but lived a long happy life with his wife and children in the South of France.
This is a very interesting forum. I believe the truth about Christianity will be revealed in our lifetime. There is just too much material already uncovered that will prove Christianity to be false. Joseph and Miriam were 'betrothed,' so, technically, they could legally within their Jewish laws, have sex and even procreate. Time will prove that Christianity is a false religion. Joseph and Mary had sex many times, and had many children. Jesus, himself, and Mary Magdalene were married with children. Jesus was a Rabbi, a teacher, and Rabbis HAD TO BE MARRIED! That was Jewish law! The first French kings were descendants of that union. (See the Web site on Rennes-le-Chateau, France). What does it matter? Nada
The question is: What will all these 'Christians' do when the world finds out that Christianity is a farce and there is no need for salvation anyway? The very fact that we are alive and kicking and allowed to be here on Planet Earth is proof enough for me to know that there is a Creator. We weren't lost in the first place to require salvation from some obscure teacher from Middle East who most likely didn't die but lived a long happy life with his wife and children in the South of France.
There is not a shred of evidence for Jesus in France. In fact all evidence is that Mary Magdalene died a hermit. Anyways read the early christian writings and decide for yourself?http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/text/
How do we glorify God?
We glorify our Creator (whatever we may call this force of energy), simply by existing on Planet Earth. We did not need Jesus ('his only son') to die for anybody, because we WEREN'T LOST in the first place! Our Creator allowed us to be, and that is what glorifies our Creator! There was no original 'sin', and the old Patriarch, Moses (aka Tutmosis, Pharoah of Egypt), wrote lies of their being 'only one God,' and then went on to frame Eve in his misogynistic fairy tale about a stupid apple (apples don't grow in the Holy Land, by the way), and the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil. This is absolutely absurd! We were created in the Image of our Maker--a spiritual image, neither male nor female 'he created them.' Imagine, if you will, the Earth at a distance, and everyone on the globe is standing hand-in-hand in peace, love, family unity. This is how I see the face of God on Earth. Saviors need not apply. We ARE the FACE of our maker on Earth, and we glorify this force of energy that created us with our Earthly existence. People created religions to try to understand this. But we are all part of one 'soul' this positive energy field. We are God on Earth
We glorify our Creator (whatever we may call this force of energy), simply by existing on Planet Earth. We did not need Jesus ('his only son') to die for anybody, because we WEREN'T LOST in the first place! Our Creator allowed us to be, and that is what glorifies our Creator! There was no original 'sin', and the old Patriarch, Moses (aka Tutmosis, Pharoah of Egypt), wrote lies of their being 'only one God,' and then went on to frame Eve in his misogynistic fairy tale about a stupid apple (apples don't grow in the Holy Land, by the way), and the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil. This is absolutely absurd! We were created in the Image of our Maker--a spiritual image, neither male nor female 'he created them.' Imagine, if you will, the Earth at a distance, and everyone on the globe is standing hand-in-hand in peace, love, family unity. This is how I see the face of God on Earth. Saviors need not apply. We ARE the FACE of our maker on Earth, and we glorify this force of energy that created us with our Earthly existence. People created religions to try to understand this. But we are all part of one 'soul' this positive energy field. We are God on Earth
Paternity of Jesus
The word 'virgin' is an English word which was translated from the Latin word 'alma' in the King James Version. 'Alma' simply means 'young girl.' Therefore, it was entirely possible for a young girl to become pregnant(that's been known to happen more than a few times in this world). So it seems X-tians believe in some mistranslations (i.e. lies). Joseph was an old codger when he became 'betrothed' to Mary. 'Betrothed' is another world for 'espoused' or 'married.' A betrothal was a public acknowledgement that two people were a legally married couple (although there were no laws, per se, requiring an actual marriage license as we know it). The betrothed couple lived together, had sex, and even got pregnant. Betrothals occurred in certain Jewish seasons, and marriage ceremonies occurred in others. Betrothal does not mean 'engaged.' When they became betrothed, they set up house and made whoopie. Mary was about 13 years old at the time, but that was their culture--marrying off young chicks to old farts. Being that Joseph is a title rather than a name (as is Mary, by the way), he was loaded. Mary's family knew what a deal they were getting by arranging this betrothal. Yeah, Mary was a young girl, alright, but she wasn't a virgin. Catholics believe that Mary retained her virginity all her life (and they fervently deny she had other children). But that wasn't natural, and Mary and Joseph, and Jesus and his siblings, lived a fairly normal life in their times. I'll hand it to Jesus, though, for being a great teacher, and yes, we could all learn from him. Also, Mary would NOT have been condemned for this pregnancy, so there was no reason to hide it. It's sad that the lies mistranslated in the Bible perpetuated more than the peaceful teachings of Jesus.
The word 'virgin' is an English word which was translated from the Latin word 'alma' in the King James Version. 'Alma' simply means 'young girl.' Therefore, it was entirely possible for a young girl to become pregnant(that's been known to happen more than a few times in this world). So it seems X-tians believe in some mistranslations (i.e. lies). Joseph was an old codger when he became 'betrothed' to Mary. 'Betrothed' is another world for 'espoused' or 'married.' A betrothal was a public acknowledgement that two people were a legally married couple (although there were no laws, per se, requiring an actual marriage license as we know it). The betrothed couple lived together, had sex, and even got pregnant. Betrothals occurred in certain Jewish seasons, and marriage ceremonies occurred in others. Betrothal does not mean 'engaged.' When they became betrothed, they set up house and made whoopie. Mary was about 13 years old at the time, but that was their culture--marrying off young chicks to old farts. Being that Joseph is a title rather than a name (as is Mary, by the way), he was loaded. Mary's family knew what a deal they were getting by arranging this betrothal. Yeah, Mary was a young girl, alright, but she wasn't a virgin. Catholics believe that Mary retained her virginity all her life (and they fervently deny she had other children). But that wasn't natural, and Mary and Joseph, and Jesus and his siblings, lived a fairly normal life in their times. I'll hand it to Jesus, though, for being a great teacher, and yes, we could all learn from him. Also, Mary would NOT have been condemned for this pregnancy, so there was no reason to hide it. It's sad that the lies mistranslated in the Bible perpetuated more than the peaceful teachings of Jesus.
Who cares what virgin translated in Isaiah means. All accounts of Mary in the gospel say that she was a virgin. As you've just said in not so many words a young woman having a child is not a sign of God yet in Isaiah it was supposed to be a sign.
Genesis 3
14
Then the LORD God said to the serpent: "Because you have done this, you shall be banned from all the animals and from all the wild creatures; On your belly shall you crawl, and dirt shall you eat all the days of your life.
15
3 I will put enmity between you and the woman, and between your offspring and hers; He will strike at your head, while you strike at his heel."
16
To the woman he said: "I will intensify the pangs of your childbearing; in pain shall you bring forth children. Yet your urge shall be for your husband, and he shall be your master."
Revelation 12
1
1 A great sign appeared in the sky, a woman 2 clothed with the sun, with the moon under her feet, and on her head a crown of twelve stars.
2
She was with child and wailed aloud in pain as she labored to give birth. 3
3
Then another sign appeared in the sky; it was a huge red dragon, 4 with seven heads and ten horns, and on its heads were seven diadems.
4
Its tail swept away a third of the stars in the sky and hurled them down to the earth. Then the dragon stood before the woman about to give birth, to devour her child when she gave birth.
5
She gave birth to a son, a male child, destined to rule all the nations with an iron rod. 5 Her child was caught up to God and his throne.
6
The woman herself fled into the desert where she had a place prepared by God, that there she might be taken care of for twelve hundred and sixty days. 6
7
7 Then war broke out in heaven; Michael 8 and his angels battled against the dragon. The dragon and its angels fought back,
8
but they did not prevail and there was no longer any place for them in heaven.
9
The huge dragon, the ancient serpent, 9 who is called the Devil and Satan, who deceived the whole world, was thrown down to earth, and its angels were thrown down with it.
10
Then I heard a loud voice in heaven say: "Now have salvation and power come, and the kingdom of our God and the authority of his Anointed. For the accuser 10 of our brothers is cast out, who accuses them before our God day and night.
11
They conquered him by the blood of the Lamb and by the word of their testimony; love for life did not deter them from death.
12
Therefore, rejoice, you heavens, and you who dwell in them. But woe to you, earth and sea, for the Devil has come down to you in great fury, for he knows he has but a short time."
13
When the dragon saw that it had been thrown down to the earth, it pursued the woman who had given birth to the male child.
14
But the woman was given the two wings of the great eagle, 11 so that she could fly to her place in the desert, where, far from the serpent, she was taken care of for a year, two years, and a half-year.
15
The serpent, 12 however, spewed a torrent of water out of his mouth after the woman to sweep her away with the current.
16
But the earth helped the woman and opened its mouth and swallowed the flood that the dragon spewed out of its mouth.
17
Then the dragon became angry with the woman and went off to wage war against the rest of her offspring, those who keep God's commandments and bear witness to Jesus. 13 (18) It took its position 14 on the sand of the sea.
okinrus...
I am afraid you missed the point. How the bible translates back to the source language is of UTMOST importance, as that is the meaning it was meant to have. You say that the bible always references to her being a virgin, in ENGLISH it might, but what if when it is taken back to source language (I am sure it doesn't do this but for the sake of argument) it says the word whore? That would change the whole meaning of it all now wouldn't it? The English version you swear by could be filled with more errors than anyone even realizes. There have been too many translations and too many words in other languages that really don't have any meaning in others.
I am afraid you missed the point. How the bible translates back to the source language is of UTMOST importance, as that is the meaning it was meant to have. You say that the bible always references to her being a virgin, in ENGLISH it might, but what if when it is taken back to source language (I am sure it doesn't do this but for the sake of argument) it says the word whore? That would change the whole meaning of it all now wouldn't it? The English version you swear by could be filled with more errors than anyone even realizes. There have been too many translations and too many words in other languages that really don't have any meaning in others.
Ok the source langauge was not latin. The hebrew word was almah. The old testament was translated into greek by supposed 70 scholars into the septuagint This was before the time of Christ. They translated almah using the greek word for virgin. My bible has footnotes of this section. Usually when there is difficulty in the translation the footnotes will draw it to attention. Nevertheless all four gospels say that Mary was a virgin. In order for Jesus to be the passover lamb, he had to be the first born. This is the reason why Jesus was born from a virgin womb...
The passage only concerns an old testament prophesy. The new testament is very clear on the virginity of Mary. MW is either a lier or woefully decieved...
This is from Mathew.
18
6 Now this is how the birth of Jesus Christ came about. When his mother Mary was betrothed to Joseph, 7 but before they lived together, she was found with child through the holy Spirit.
19
Joseph her husband, since he was a righteous man, 8 yet unwilling to expose her to shame, decided to divorce her quietly.
20
Such was his intention when, behold, the angel of the Lord 9 appeared to him in a dream and said, "Joseph, son of David, do not be afraid to take Mary your wife into your home. For it is through the holy Spirit that this child has been conceived in her.
21
She will bear a son and you are to name him Jesus, 10 because he will save his people from their sins."
22
All this took place to fulfill what the Lord had said through the prophet:
23
11 "Behold, the virgin shall be with child and bear a son, and they shall name him Emmanuel," which means "God is with us."
24
When Joseph awoke, he did as the angel of the Lord had commanded him and took his wife into his home.
25
He had no relations with her until she bore a son, 12 and he named him Jesus.
This is from Luke
26
10 In the sixth month, the angel Gabriel was sent from God to a town of Galilee called Nazareth,
27
to a virgin betrothed to a man named Joseph, of the house of David, and the virgin's name was Mary.
28
And coming to her, he said, "Hail, favored one! The Lord is with you."
29
But she was greatly troubled at what was said and pondered what sort of greeting this might be.
30
Then the angel said to her, "Do not be afraid, Mary, for you have found favor with God.
31
Behold, you will conceive in your womb and bear a son, and you shall name him Jesus.
32
He will be great and will be called Son of the Most High, 11 and the Lord God will give him the throne of David his father,
33
and he will rule over the house of Jacob forever, and of his kingdom there will be no end."
34
But Mary said to the angel, "How can this be, since I have no relations with a man?" 12
35
And the angel said to her in reply, "The holy Spirit will come upon you, and the power of the Most High will overshadow you. Therefore the child to be born will be called holy, the Son of God.
36
And behold, Elizabeth, your relative, has also conceived 13 a son in her old age, and this is the sixth month for her who was called barren;
37
for nothing will be impossible for God."
38
Mary said, "Behold, I am the handmaid of the Lord. May it be done to me according to your word." Then the angel departed from her.
39
During those days Mary set out and traveled to the hill country in haste to a town of Judah,
40
where she entered the house of Zechariah and greeted Elizabeth.
41
When Elizabeth heard Mary's greeting, the infant leaped in her womb, and Elizabeth, filled with the holy Spirit,
42
cried out in a loud voice and said, "Most blessed are you among women, and blessed is the fruit of your womb.
43
And how does this happen to me, that the mother of my Lord 14 should come to me?
44
For at the moment the sound of your greeting reached my ears, the infant in my womb leaped for joy.
45
Blessed are you who believed 15 that what was spoken to you by the Lord would be fulfilled."
This is from Mathew.
18
6 Now this is how the birth of Jesus Christ came about. When his mother Mary was betrothed to Joseph, 7 but before they lived together, she was found with child through the holy Spirit.
19
Joseph her husband, since he was a righteous man, 8 yet unwilling to expose her to shame, decided to divorce her quietly.
20
Such was his intention when, behold, the angel of the Lord 9 appeared to him in a dream and said, "Joseph, son of David, do not be afraid to take Mary your wife into your home. For it is through the holy Spirit that this child has been conceived in her.
21
She will bear a son and you are to name him Jesus, 10 because he will save his people from their sins."
22
All this took place to fulfill what the Lord had said through the prophet:
23
11 "Behold, the virgin shall be with child and bear a son, and they shall name him Emmanuel," which means "God is with us."
24
When Joseph awoke, he did as the angel of the Lord had commanded him and took his wife into his home.
25
He had no relations with her until she bore a son, 12 and he named him Jesus.
This is from Luke
26
10 In the sixth month, the angel Gabriel was sent from God to a town of Galilee called Nazareth,
27
to a virgin betrothed to a man named Joseph, of the house of David, and the virgin's name was Mary.
28
And coming to her, he said, "Hail, favored one! The Lord is with you."
29
But she was greatly troubled at what was said and pondered what sort of greeting this might be.
30
Then the angel said to her, "Do not be afraid, Mary, for you have found favor with God.
31
Behold, you will conceive in your womb and bear a son, and you shall name him Jesus.
32
He will be great and will be called Son of the Most High, 11 and the Lord God will give him the throne of David his father,
33
and he will rule over the house of Jacob forever, and of his kingdom there will be no end."
34
But Mary said to the angel, "How can this be, since I have no relations with a man?" 12
35
And the angel said to her in reply, "The holy Spirit will come upon you, and the power of the Most High will overshadow you. Therefore the child to be born will be called holy, the Son of God.
36
And behold, Elizabeth, your relative, has also conceived 13 a son in her old age, and this is the sixth month for her who was called barren;
37
for nothing will be impossible for God."
38
Mary said, "Behold, I am the handmaid of the Lord. May it be done to me according to your word." Then the angel departed from her.
39
During those days Mary set out and traveled to the hill country in haste to a town of Judah,
40
where she entered the house of Zechariah and greeted Elizabeth.
41
When Elizabeth heard Mary's greeting, the infant leaped in her womb, and Elizabeth, filled with the holy Spirit,
42
cried out in a loud voice and said, "Most blessed are you among women, and blessed is the fruit of your womb.
43
And how does this happen to me, that the mother of my Lord 14 should come to me?
44
For at the moment the sound of your greeting reached my ears, the infant in my womb leaped for joy.
45
Blessed are you who believed 15 that what was spoken to you by the Lord would be fulfilled."
The 'woefully deceived'
okinrus--All things possible to humanity cannot be based upon or alluded to Old or New Testament writings. It is you, my friend, who is 'woefully deceived.' Yet, I would still defend your right to blindly do so.
M*W
okinrus--All things possible to humanity cannot be based upon or alluded to Old or New Testament writings. It is you, my friend, who is 'woefully deceived.' Yet, I would still defend your right to blindly do so.
M*W
Ok. Well your beliefs on Jesus are not factual.
http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/15464b.htm
<i>
All things possible to humanity cannot be based upon or alluded to Old or New Testament writings. It is you, my friend, who is 'woefully deceived.'
</i>
All I'm saying is be at least state what is factual... You can then base whatever opinion you want on it, but you do not have the right to slander.
http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/15464b.htm
<i>
All things possible to humanity cannot be based upon or alluded to Old or New Testament writings. It is you, my friend, who is 'woefully deceived.'
</i>
All I'm saying is be at least state what is factual... You can then base whatever opinion you want on it, but you do not have the right to slander.
Slandering beliefs in Jesus?
Your beliefs in Jesus are debatable, too, because you base your belief on the misinterpreted Bible! You called me a slanderer of the Bible, but isn't that what you and all X-ians do--twist the truth as it was originally written? What about all the new texts that have been found at Qumran? Do you deny what is written in them just because they didn't put them at the time when the Bible was compiled? These ancient texts make many references to Jesus, too, his life, his wife, and the fact that he didn't die like you and your compadres believe and, most of all, Jesus never saved anyone! Salvation is the fantasy of a false religion.
Your beliefs in Jesus are debatable, too, because you base your belief on the misinterpreted Bible! You called me a slanderer of the Bible, but isn't that what you and all X-ians do--twist the truth as it was originally written? What about all the new texts that have been found at Qumran? Do you deny what is written in them just because they didn't put them at the time when the Bible was compiled? These ancient texts make many references to Jesus, too, his life, his wife, and the fact that he didn't die like you and your compadres believe and, most of all, Jesus never saved anyone! Salvation is the fantasy of a false religion.