Is Joseph the father of Jesus ?

Saint

Saint

Valued Senior Member
Joseph did not sleep with Mary when she got the first pregnancy of Jesus. Joseph did not contribute anything into the body of Mary to make her pregnant. But he married her just after she got pregnant by the holy spirit , according to bible.
But Jesus was born into his family, and he must have called him father/papa since young. Anyway, Joseph is not the fleshy father of Jesus, not like our fathers to us.

In this way, we may say Jesus is the adopted son of Joseph, but born by his wife - strange!
Eventually, who is the earthly father of Jesus? Nobody , right?
Is this a shame in ancient jewish society? Yes!
What can best be done to cover this shame? You guess ?


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Says who?

I have to question your source for this information.

There was a Roman Emperor named Augustus Caesar.

Before he became Emperor, he was known as Octavian.

Julius Caesar had a romance with the boy's mother and after Julius was killed, his will was read. The will adopted Octavian as Caesar's son and made him Caesar's heir. Mark Antony refused to validate the will and kept Octavian from getting Caesar's money. The only thing Antony agreed to was a decree from the Roman Senate naming Julius Caesar a god, that he had become a god when he ascended to Mount Olympus after his death.

So, when he signed official documents, Octavian claimed the title "Son of God." Because the Senate had proclaimed Caesar a god and Octavian wanted them to recognize his claim to Caesar's estate. When Octavian became Emperor, he took the title Augustus Caesar. And he ordered an official history written in which his mother was a virgin when she was visited by the god Zeus and that visit resulted in his conception.

This story became official Roman history, despite the fact that Octavian had an older brother.

So, unless you can show me HOW anyone could have known whether or not Mary ever had sex with a man - and I simply cannot conceive of any way that any person other than Mary could know that - and Mary would have had a reason to lie about any liason before her official marriage....

the story of Jesus being conceived of a virgin reeks of convenience... and probably was read into the story when the editor of the Gospel of Matthew misread the Greek text of Isaiah 7:14 which said parthenos... and he didn't know that the original did NOT say virgin, that there was no prophecy about a virgin birth in the OT...

There is simply no credible evidence for what you posted.
 
My question is simple, WHO IS JESUS'S FATHER ?
I ask you, who is your father? You answer, Mr. XXX.
Even though you're an orphan, there may be a record in the orphanage about the parents who send you there, what's their names etc.....

So, who is jesus' mother? Mary, ok!
Who is his father ? Joseph , No! Joseph did not sleep with Mary, he can't be jesus' father. Joseph is jesus' god-father, ok, we can accept. But, this still does not answer WHO IS JESUS'S FATHER .
 
Originally posted by Saint
So, the truth is, the gospels bullshit ?
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I'm asking you to see what Biblical scholars started admitting about 200 years ago.

That we do know things about the source of the Bible, beyond the mere words.

The Gospel of Mark was based on a sermon Peter delivered to a group of Christians in Rome, after 55 AD. If Jesus was born in 4 Ad, or thereabouts, the story reported in Mark didn't exist in written form until 59 or 60 years after jesus was born.

So, how is a fable about Joseph not having sex with his betrothed supposed to have come down to us? Who knew enough about the facts to write a credible account?

No one.

The story of Jesus being born of a virgin or being the product of a virgin conception is a fiction added to the story several decades after Jesus died, to make his legend as impressive as the ones the Romans told about their Emperors.

And that's all it is.
 
If Jesus' DNA-father is not Joseph, how can he be a Jews ?

Christians, please answer this simple question.
 
Hey Riley, nice posts, man. I had heard that story of Ceasar and Octavius and Marc Antony before, and it's an enthralling story, and a very enlightening one. It's just a textbook example of how ancient documents can be simply fabricated to suit one's needs.

I had no idea about the Gospel of Mark, though, Riley, very good of you to post it.

This is why I don't believe that the Bible is accurate. Of course, I think a lot of it is, in it's raw meaning, but there is just too much that doesn't add up. The Gospel of Mark, which depicted the virgin birth of Jesus, was based on a sermon? Well Jesus Tapdancin' Christ, why the hell would anyone take a sermon and pass it down as the word of God?

Of course that dude made it up! A perfect example is a headline on today's AOL Ticker:

"Phoenix Bishop Hid Sex Charges"

So this guy lies about his preists and how the mentally scarred young children, and many people took him on his word! He flat-out lied to protect other preists, and, most likely, the face of the religion. If this guy would do it, why wouldn't the dude who preached to Mark about the birth of the man claiming to be the son of God? What sounds better:

Jesus Christ, a bastard concieved out of marraige by an engaged woman and her secret lover, or;

Jesus Christ, concieved to a virgin by the Word of God?

So, to save the face of the religion, this guy cooked up this idea. And hey, it wasn't an earth-shattering idea this guy had; Immaculate Conceptions "Happened" before that and since.

It's so funny how atheists, or just people searching for truth, bring to the table knowledge and intelligence, while the Christians simply quote thier Bible and speak cryptically and dream things up.

"Do not rely on your logic; only believe in God."

Why? Becuase if we follow our logic, we'll find out that it's all a bunch of bullshit?

JD
 
Originally posted by RileyWins
I'm asking you to see what Biblical scholars started admitting about 200 years ago. ... The Gospel of Mark was based on a sermon Peter delivered to a group of Christians in Rome, after 55 AD.
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Although the book is anonymous, apart from the ancient heading "According to Mark" in manuscripts, it has traditionally been assigned to John Mark, in whose mother's house (at Jerusalem) Christians assembled (Acts 12:12). This Mark was a cousin of Barnabas (Col 4:10) and accompanied Barnabas and Paul on a missionary journey (Acts 12:25; 13:3; 15:36- 39). He appears in Pauline letters (2 Tim 4:11; Philippians 1:24) and with Peter (1 Peter 5:13). Papias (ca. A.D. 135) described Mark as Peter's "interpreter," a view found in other patristic writers.

Petrine influence should not, however, be exaggerated. The evangelist has put together various oral and possibly written sources--miracle stories, parables, sayings, stories of controversies, and the passion--so as to speak of the crucified Messiah for Mark's own day.

Traditionally, the gospel is said to have been written shortly before A.D. 70 in Rome, at a time of impending persecution and when destruction loomed over Jerusalem. Its audience seems to have been Gentile, unfamiliar with Jewish customs (hence Mark 7:3-4, 11). The book aimed to equip such Christians to stand faithful in the face of persecution (Mark 13:9-13), while going on with the proclamation of the gospel begun in Galilee (Mark 13:10; 14:9). Modern research often proposes as the author an unknown Hellenistic Jewish Christian, possibly in Syria, and perhaps shortly after the year 70.

- see NAB: Mark - Introduction; emphasis added
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Originally posted by Saint
If Jesus' DNA-father is not Joseph, how can he be a Jews ?

Christians, please answer this simple question.
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Have a look at Jewish traditions about family. You'll see that biological descendency is only a part of the requirement. Joseph was the legal father of Jesus by being married to his mother. As for the biological father - Jesus has the same Father as all of humanity.
 
*If Jesus' DNA-father is not Joseph, how can he be a Jews ?*

Also Jewish is matriarchal so whatever his dad was is irellevant for him being a Jew according to Jewish law .
 
Originally posted by Jenyar
. Joseph was the legal father of Jesus by being married to his mother. As for the biological father - Jesus has the same Father as all of humanity.
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Meriam was married? This is news to me. I thought she was virgin and unmarried?

And I like Jihad question. If Jesus father was not a human, then why call Jesus a Jew. God is not a jew is he?

The Quran is accurate referring to Jesus as the son of Mary. The bible is not accurate saying son of david and son of joseph and son of josdec and son of god. The Quran is consistent, the bible is not.

[4.171] O followers of the Bible! do not exceed the limits in your religion, and do not speak (lies) against Allah, but (speak) the truth; the Messiah, Isa son of Marium is only an apostle of Allah and His Word which He communicated to Marium and a spirit from Him; believe therefore in Allah and His apostles, and say not, Three. Desist, it is better for you; Allah is only one God; far be It from His glory that He should have a son, whatever is in the heavens and whatever is in the earth is His, and Allah is sufficient for a Protector.
 
far be It from His glory that He should have a son
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Far be it that you should intimate what constitutes God's glory or what God should and shouldn't have.

In the Qur'an it is twice written (2:62, 5:69):

Surely, those who believe, the Jews, the Christians, the converts; all those who believe in God and in the Hereafter, and do righteousness, will receive their recompense from their Lord; they have nothing to fear, nor will they grieve.
 
Originally posted by Bridge
Far be it that you should intimate what constitutes God's glory or what God should and shouldn't have.

In the Qur'an it is twice written (2:62, 5:69):

Surely, those who believe, the Jews, the Christians, the converts; all those who believe in God and in the Hereafter, and do righteousness, will receive their recompense from their Lord; they have nothing to fear, nor will they grieve.
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You are absolutely right, but I'm citing the holly Quran, which is the word of god. You don't wish me interrupt god and question him do you? God says in the holly Quran that his glory is far from having a son daughter or any human trait because we are all his, so why select one over the other, we all belong to him.
 
Very good, then you must understand that God is not restricted by our understanding and interpretations of holy scriptures let alone the meaning of the word "son"? Otherwise we will have to change the subject to Isaac and Ishmael?
 
Originally posted by Flores
...I'm citing the holly Quran, which is the word of god. You don't wish me interrupt god and question him do you? ...
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Since the Quran is only a book, YES, please, question whether it was written by "God" or a human being claiming to be speaking for God.

If you don't do that, then you would have to accept every single book that claims it is the word of God. Hundreds of them.
 
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far be It from His glory that He should have a son
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Far from our understanding, yes - but not far from His power. How can we give to God all the glory He deserves? Who can do it better than his Son?

It is not us who give Jesus glory, or himself - it is God himself who glorifies Him:
2 Peter 1:17
For he received honor and glory from God the Father when the voice came to him from the Majestic Glory, saying, "This is my Son, whom I love; with him I am well pleased."[ 1:17 Matt. 17:5; Mark 9:7; Luke 9:35]
John 8:54
Jesus replied, "If I glorify myself, my glory means nothing. My Father, whom you claim as your God, is the one who glorifies me.

God may glorify whom He wishes - and He chose to glorify Jesus with the same glory as Himself, by raising Him from death to sit by His right hand.

1 Timothy 3:16
Beyond all question, the mystery of godliness is great: God appeared in a body, was vindicated by the Spirit, was seen by angels, was preached among the nations, was believed on in the world, was taken up in glory.

Hebrews 1:3
The Son is the radiance of God's glory and the exact representation of his being, sustaining all things by his powerful word. After he had provided purification for sins, he sat down at the right hand of the Majesty in heaven.

Through Jesus, we too have received the glory of God - His Spirit - and may enter into His presence.
 
Look right,this is israel 2000 years ago we are talking about!
back then you got stoned to death for having sex outside wedlock,
sex before marriage was a bad thing back then,punishable by death.

Joseph and mary fucked,joseph got mary pregnant,there wasnt easy ways out like morning after pills,condoms,abortion clinics etc
so she cooked up a story of immaculate conception.

Her story seems so goddamned transparent,there wasnt no fucking immaculate conception,she was just fucked by joseph.

The motive:to aviod possible death penalty.
 
Originally posted by Saint
doesn't mean to be rude, Jesus could be a bastard.
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oh, thanks for the enlightenment.. i was afraid you are going to claim that you were his father. ;)
 
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