Is jesus the messiah

You know Mr. Snake, you're really just a bully aren't you
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Sure.

You don't want to discuss or be rational.
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A) I'm always rational

B) Are we not discussing?

You criticise others for their beliefs but you have nothing of your own to offer.
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No, I question others beliefs. It comes across that you just don't want your beliefs questioned. As such, I can only ask why you're on this forum. If you just want everyone to agree, go to www.everyoneagreeswithme.com, or just talk to yourself.

As for having nothing to offer. I will put on my best puppy eyes and look towards the crowd to deny this claim. I have never claimed to be extremely polite. I have never claimed to not be rude at times or indeed argumentative, but I do feel I have things to offer. Your claims to the contrary are groundless.

Of course, people absorb different things than other people, and so to some yes- I have nothing to offer. To others however, I offer a lot.

You yell about others not answering questions but you don't bother to answer questions put to you.
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A) I never yell.

B) As you're speaking about answering questions, would you care to answer the question I asked on the post you quoted, instead of just ignoring it in preference of an analysis of my personality? Sorry, was I yelling?

C) I always answer questions. I even do so in the easiest format to recognise. I quote each question/statement and make a direct response to it, as you can see. This generally ensures that people do not make silly claims that I don't answer questions.

You whine about proof but will offer none of your own.
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David.. Did I ever tell you how much I hate having to repeat myself? Have I not told you several times that I never demand proof, but that evidence would be nice? If you have something you would like me to offer evidence for, and are willing to actually pay attention to it, then I will do so happily.

You have no desire for anything good, only to tear others down to your level.
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I demand a lawyer.. :bugeye:

Hey, what can I say? I'm the "sinner", I'm he who has been corrupted by sin, I am he you're supposed to be saving, instead of complaining about. No?

I mean c'mon, I've heard it a million times. The christian man wants to save us ungodly sinners, we who stray from the path. It makes me wonder why you're more intent on throwing me off the cliff.

I know your type - whine whine whine..
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Have you quite finished whining yet?
 
aguy2 said:
To mustafhakofi

You say, "firstly I would like to ask have you ever read your bible."

I say, "firstly I would like to ask have you ever read your Koran?"

'The Family of Imran' 003:45
'Rembember when the angel said, "O Mary! Verily God announceth to thee the Word from Him: His name shall be, Messiah Jesus the son of Mary, illustrious in this world, and in the next, and one of those who have near access to God;'

aguy2
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brought up on it, so most definately yes.
it's just a book just like the bible.
the original question was directed to the christians.
but allah prefered the family of imran to all others, so unless your are of there bloodline your not favoured.(the surah 3 al imran 33 Allah preferred Adam, Noah, the Family of Abraham, and the Family of 'Imran above all His creatures. )
I ask you a question are you a follower of the prophet jesus or muhammed which do you obey.
the reason I ask is muslims follow muhammed, but Allah promised that those who followed Jesus without detouring into unauthorized teachings or practices would be exalted throughout history until the resurrection.(surah 3 al imran 55)
 
To mustafhakofi,

003:33 "Allah preferred (exalted)..." The verb is in the past tense not the present.

As far as my family I am KGL Hessian on my mother's side and Scot border ruffian on my father's. I bow down to no man, living or dead. I worship Truth with a capital 'T'. I believe the Torah, the gospels of Jesus (not the epistles of Saul/Paul), and the missives of Gabriel to Mohammed to be holy writ that must be concidered with discernment due to the warning given in the Pilgrimage 022:52.

aguy2
 
Allah is God but the Koran is full of half truths and most importantly it does no reveal Jesus as Saviour of man. The Law can never be fulfilled by man alone for all have sinned. The law must punish the sinner in order to be correct but that would leave man with no hope. Jesus took the full penalty of the Law and in this way may you be set free. There is no other way to escape the judgement of the Law. As Salmon Rushdie once said the Koran are the Satanic Verses because they do not hold dear to the notion of sacrifice and particulary God's sacrifice for His creatures such was His great love for them.
There is no Good News in the Koran. None.
 
duh amoeba-man/c20 wrong again.

Good Stuff in the Quran
2: The Cow

Don't confuse truth with falsehood or knowingly conceal the truth. 42


Pay the poor-due. 43, 110, 277

Be good to parents, relatives, orphans, and the needy. Speak kindly and pay the poor-due. 83

If you believe it, prove it. 111

The Jews say the Christians are wrong, and vice versa. Yet they both believe in the Scriptures. 113

Give of your wealth to family, relatives, and the needy. Set slaves free. 177

Do not fight wars of aggression. 190

Spend your money for good: to help your parents, your family, orphans, wayfarers, and the needy. 215

Help orphans. 220

"There is no compulsion in religion." 256
3: The Family of 'Imran

Don't argue about things that you know nothing about. 66

Do not be guilty of usury, doubling and quadrpling the sum lent. 130

I suffer not the work of any worker, male or female, to be lost. Ye proceed one from another. 195
4: The Women

Give to orphans and don't steal from them. 2, 10

Men and women proceed from one another. 25

Don't kill other Muslims.(Is it OK to kill non-muslims?) 29

Be kind to parents, relatives, orphans, the needy, neighbors, and travelers. 36

Whoever participates in a good cause, will be rewarded. Whoever participates in an evil cause, will bear the consequences thereof. 85

Value justice, for both poor and rich, even when it adversely affects you or your family's interests. 135

Don't lend money at unfairly high rates of interest. 161
5: The Table Spread

Don't hate other people. Treat everyone fairly. 8

Whoever saves the life of one, it is as if he had saved the life of all. 32

Pay the poor-due. 55

Feed and clothe the needy. Set a slave free. 89
6: The Cattle

Do good to parents, don't kill your children or other living things unnecessarily. 151

Don't steal from orphans. Don't cheat or lie. 152
7: The Heights

Pay the poor-due. 156

Be kind and forgiving toward others. 199
9: Repentance

Pay the poor-due. 18

Alms are for the poor and needy, to free captives and debtors, and to help wayfarers. 60

Men and women are protecting friends of one another. They enjoin the right and forbid the wrong, and pay the poor-due. 71
16: The Bee

Be kind to your relatives. 90
17: The Children of Israel

Be kind to your parents. Treat them with respect in their old age. 23

Help your family, the needy, and wayfarer. Don't selfishly squander your wealth. 26

Don't kill your children to avoid falling into poverty. 31

Don't steal from orphans. 34

Don't follow what you don't know. 36
22: The Pilgrimage

Feed the poor and unfortunate. 28

Don't lie. 30

Be kind to others, forbid injustice, and pay the poor-due. 41

Pay the poor-due. 78
23: The Believers

Pay the poor-due. 4

Repel evil with that which is better. 96
24: Light

Pay the poor-due. 37, 56
28: The Story

Repel evil with good. 54
29: The Spider

Be kind to your parents. 8
30: The Romans

Men and women should help each other with love an mercy. 21

Help your family, the needy, and wayfarers. 38
31: Luqman

Pay the poor-due. 4
41: Fusilat

Good and evil are not the same. Repel evil with goodness. That way your enemies will become your friends. 34
42: Counsel

Be loving and kind to your relatives. 23

It is wrong to oppress people. 42
46: The Wind-Curved Sandals

Be kind to your parents. 15
49: The Private Apartments

Don't defame, insult, spy on, or backbite one another.. 11-12
51: The Winnowing Winds

Give of your wealth to help the poor. 19
58: She That Disputeth

Pay the poor-due. 13
73: The Enshrouded One

Pay the poor-due. 20
90: The City

Free a slave, feed the hungry, and exhort one another to pity. 13-17
98: The Clear Proof

Pay the poor-due. 5

you'll get right, oneday but keep trying it's amusing.
 
the preacher said:
duh amoeba-man/c20 wrong again.

you'll get right, oneday but keep trying it's amusing.
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Well theres an awful lot of rules that I am just too crap to keep. I am bound to fail on every one of them from the moment I am born and indeed I have. If others fail on them which is evidently the case then they will hurt me and themselves but nevermind cos Allah just forgives us huh?
But in the Koran Allah never sets a good example. In the Koran He is just represented by a dead prophet called Mohammed and all Mohammed ever did was speak those rules. Mohammed wasn't prepared to die for what he believed in because he would have tried to make peace with everyone to save his own skin first, therefore

Koran said:
if you believe it, prove it
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Would mean laying down your life to prove that you love people enough to die for them. That would be an action that would prove it. But consider the suicide bomber who uses that very verse to justify his actions. The suicide bomber says "I love my own people, the Muslims. I will prove it to them by killing our adversary, the Americans (or whoever they have declared jihad on)"

We can see this is very opposed to how Jesus approached this dilemma. Jesus did want to take people with him when he died but His thoughts were diametrically opposed to that of the Muslim. Jesus said "Turn the other cheek" and because we believe that Jesus is God's love for us we may say "We do not have to prove it because Jesus will say "I have already done it" or "It is done", in that we are taken up to Him to be where He is, which is apart from the world. The Christian does not feel like this is his home and this is why the Christian heres the words of their Saviour "Soon! I am coming soon."

The Christian man believes "It is done"
The Muslim man believe "I must do it"

The Christian man is at rest and waits
The Muslim man moves against that which is at rest and never has rest as a consequence unless he accepts that "It is done"

c20
 
Just real quick. How can we say Jesus is the messiah when he has yet to do an act that would progate the title of messiah? You can contest Jesus will be the Messiah as a theory but to say he is suggest present tense....and for that to be true

1) you would have to prove we need to be saved
2) and than put a histoical date with evidence of being saved.

neither has been done at this point.
 
robtex said:
Just real quick. How can we say Jesus is the messiah when he has yet to do an act that would progate the title of messiah? You can contest Jesus will be the Messiah as a theory but to say he is suggest present tense....and for that to be true

1) you would have to prove we need to be saved
2) and than put a histoical date with evidence of being saved.

neither has been done at this point.
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I have already done it ( with the exception of an exact date ;).

Plese see http://www.sciforums.com/showthread.php?t=36438

cheers

c20
 
c20H25N3o: Allah is God but the Koran is full of half truths and most importantly it does no reveal Jesus as Saviour of man. The Law can never be fulfilled by man alone for all have sinned. The law must punish the sinner in order to be correct but that would leave man with no hope. Jesus took the full penalty of the Law and in this way may you be set free. There is no other way to escape the judgement of the Law. As Salmon Rushdie once said the Koran are the Satanic Verses because they do not hold dear to the notion of sacrifice and particulary God's sacrifice for His creatures such was His great love for them.
There is no Good News in the Koran. None.
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M*W: Jesus took nada. The Koran speaks more truth than the bible. Have you read the Qur'an? I doubt it. The Bible lies. The Qur'an does not lie.
 
robtex said:
"How can we say Jesus is the messiah when he has yet to do an act that would progate (propagate) the title of Messiah?"
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I think you have hit on a very important point; a title like messiah, of necessity, must be an after the fact appellation. If one is to be called 'the Savior of the World' it is first necessary that the world has been 'saved', which I don't think is the case. Nonetheless the phenomenon of an individual's life being 'salvaged' through a total and complete 'rebirth' through the auspices of Christ is quite real and not to be undervalued. Personally I have no problem with seeing the Christ as a Savior of individuals.

aguy2

"We and the universe around us are involved in an ongoing, staged process of self-creation; wherein and whereby the Creator of us and the universe around us is attempting to create itself."
 
amoeba-man /c20 how does putting that thread up, prove we need to be saved, if thats what you call proof, dont offer you services in court.
 
audible said:
amoeba-man /c20 how does putting that thread up, prove we need to be saved, if thats what you call proof, dont offer you services in court.
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It is proof that I needed to be saved. I am just a man.
 
mustafhakofi said:
You xians, believe your christ to be the messiah.


why has he been proclaimed such,as he clearly does not fit the bill.

firstly his name is not Immanuel.

secondly he is not a direct descendant of David.
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Let's take just the first couple in your list.
Isaiah 7:14
Therefore the Lord himself shall give you a sign; Behold, a virgin shall conceive, and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel​
The word which is traslated as "name" is shema, which means something you call someone. This does not mean proper name. This is the same word Moses used when he said "Hear O Israel, the LORD thy God, the LORD is one." except in this case, it is translated as "Hear" - same word, and it means to call. The word Immanuel means God with us or with us is God. Can anyone dispute that the message of the NT is that God came to be with us in the form of Jesus?

Second, how can you say Jesus is not a descendant of David? Through both lineages (Joseph's in Matthew and Mary's in Luke) Jesus is from David. His true lineage through his mother concerns a longer lineage through a non-kingly line, but when Joseph married Mary despite the fact that she had a child, he proclaimed by his actions that this pre-marriage pregnancy was his doing (even if he didn't come out and say so) and thus "adopted" Jesus into his lineage - the lineage of the Kings of Israel (making Jesus a possible successor to the throne).
 
redskins call there children, after things that happen to them, ie if an eagles feather falls from the sky, at a birth, they will most likely NAME that child "Eagle Feather".

NAME is the key word, his NAME Immanuel( means God with us or with us is God. ) not jesus.

a liineage is a bloodline, which jesus does not have.

The Messiah must be a physical descendant of David, romans 1:3 the gospel concerning his Son, who was descended from David according to the flesh.
 
aguy2: To mustafhakofi, 003:33 "Allah preferred (exalted)..." The verb is in the past tense not the present.

As far as my family I am KGL Hessian on my mother's side and Scot border ruffian on my father's. I bow down to no man, living or dead. I worship Truth with a capital 'T'. I believe the Torah, the gospels of Jesus (not the epistles of Saul/Paul), and the missives of Gabriel to Mohammed to be holy writ that must be concidered with discernment due to the warning given in the Pilgrimage 022:52.
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M*W: Welcome to the wonderful world of sciforums, aguy2! I share your belief (disbelief) about Paul's epistles, as do several others on this forum. I would like to hear why you disbelieve Saul/Paul, as I am sure the others would, too.
 
c20H25N3o: There is no Good News in the Koran. None.
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M*W: There is no good news in the NT either. But, aside from that, there are terrorist militants out there, probably in your own neighborhood, who would behead you for saying that.
 
pavlosmarcos: redskins call there children, after things that happen to them, ie if an eagles feather falls from the sky, at a birth, they will most likely NAME that child "Eagle Feather".
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M*W: True!
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pavlosmarcos: NAME is the key word, his NAME Immanuel(means God with us or with us is God.) not jesus.
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M*W: True!
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pavlosmarcos: a liineage is a bloodline, which jesus does not have.

The Messiah must be a physical descendant of David, romans 1:3 the gospel concerning his Son, who was descended from David according to the flesh.
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M*W: pav -- Firstly, I recommend you read Bloodline of the Holy Grail: The Secret Genealogy of Jesus, by Laurence Gardner, to see what you think. Let me know! Some of it is online.
 
David F. said:
How can we discuss whether or not Jesus is the messiah if one side of the discussion insists that Jesus did not exist or that all records concerning him are false? If this is the case, then there is no basis for discussion.

You're argument seems to be "I don't believe anything therefore nothing you say is true." :eek:
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Regardless of that isolated statement, I "play along" to the accuracy of the Gospels more or less like a good boy.
 
pavlosmarcos said:
redskins call there children, after things that happen to them, ie if an eagles feather falls from the sky, at a birth, they will most likely NAME that child "Eagle Feather".

NAME is the key word, his NAME Immanuel( means God with us or with us is God. ) not jesus.

a liineage is a bloodline, which jesus does not have.

The Messiah must be a physical descendant of David, romans 1:3 the gospel concerning his Son, who was descended from David according to the flesh.
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Please read my earlier post. We really don't care what the English says, we care what the original bible in Hebrew says. The word does not mean "proper name" it means "to call" or "something you call someone". Is name an incorrect translation - No. If my son comes and tells me his brother called him a name, do I think he means his brother called him by his proper name or do I think he means his brother called him something else?

Jesus does have the bloodline - through his mother, or maybe you think that doesn't count somehow?

You can purposefully misread the bible and I can't stop you, but that doesn't make you right.
 
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